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The Swedish Model


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#1 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 13:52

I can not understand the Green Loght to red light zones. I thought opinion was now to go down criminalising all purchase of sex. See the latest comment is free in the Guardian. Maybe a free brave people could waste a few minutes contributing to the debate.

The Swedish Model

Mactaggart advocates the so-called Swedish model, whereby the buying of sexual services is made illegal, as it has been in Sweden since 1999. Many people probably already think this is the case in the UK.

In fact, while "kerb crawling" and controlling prostitution for gain are illegal in Britain, purchasing sex is not currently against the law. To discuss the use of the Swedish model, Mactaggart, along with the Poppy Project, organised a meeting on prostitution at the Houses of Parliament this week, which was addressed by Gunilla Ekberg, a former special adviser to the Swedish government. Ekberg made a strong case for following Sweden's lead in criminalising demand, arguing that it had been successful in reducing prostitution and human trafficking.

Government ministers have launched a review of prostitution laws, which will include examining the Swedish model, and Phillip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, has proposed an amendment to the current Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill that would criminalise the buying of sexual services. But inevitably there is no consensus of opinion.

Elrond elrondmiddleengland

#2 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 14:04

I can not understand the Green Loght to red light zones. I thought opinion was now to go down criminalising all purchase of sex. See the latest comment is free in the Guardian. Maybe a free brave people could waste a few minutes contributing to the debate.

The Swedish Model

Mactaggart advocates the so-called Swedish model, whereby the buying of sexual services is made illegal, as it has been in Sweden since 1999. Many people probably already think this is the case in the UK.

In fact, while "kerb crawling" and controlling prostitution for gain are illegal in Britain, purchasing sex is not currently against the law. To discuss the use of the Swedish model, Mactaggart, along with the Poppy Project, organised a meeting on prostitution at the Houses of Parliament this week, which was addressed by Gunilla Ekberg, a former special adviser to the Swedish government. Ekberg made a strong case for following Sweden's lead in criminalising demand, arguing that it had been successful in reducing prostitution and human trafficking.

Government ministers have launched a review of prostitution laws, which will include examining the Swedish model, and Phillip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, has proposed an amendment to the current Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill that would criminalise the buying of sexual services. But inevitably there is no consensus of opinion.


What I never understand about is this is about street prostitution not "indoor work (escorting)"?

#3 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 14:21

Phillip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, has proposed an amendment to the current Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill that would criminalise the buying of sexual services.


The problem, as I see it, with making the purchase of sex a criminal offence is that it opens the back door, so to speak, to making the selling of sex a criminal offence (although not in its own right) also. Any communication between the prostitute and the punter prior to the act could be classed as conspiring/assisting in a criminal offence, to be arrested/charged with the proposed criminal offence of buying sex there has to be, by definition, another party to actually receive the money and that could be classed as being involved/assisting in a criminal offence, the prostitute would be in possession of evidence of a criminal offence etc., taking it to its logical conclusion all advertising of sexual services could be classed as incitement to commit a criminal offence.

#4 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 14:26

are you saying all these boards will have to shut down as a result? /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#5 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 14:31

are you saying all these boards will have to shut down as a result? /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />


In theory yes, although practically I would rather doubt it, geographical location of server notwithstanding of course.

#6 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 14:35

This board would be fine then /biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#7 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:00

What I never understand about is this is about street prostitution not "indoor work (escorting)"?


All paid sex, it would affect parlours and independent escorts more than street working. Street working, sale and purchase is already illegal.
Elrond elrondmiddleengland

#8 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:02

are you saying all these boards will have to shut down as a result? /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />


advertising would become very internet based and would be moved off shore. Boards like this with the PN reports would become even more important as a way to avoid police stings etc.

But hey, the states have lived with this for years.
Elrond elrondmiddleengland

#9 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:06

Street working, sale and purchase is already illegal.


The sale and purchase (giving and recieving money or goods) of sex is not illegal in any shape or form (SOA 2003 age related law etc. notwithstanding), what is illegal is soliciting and kerb-crawling, neither of which involve to transfer of money or goods.

#10 Jimmyredcab

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:17

I am 110% confident that the UK will not follow the "Swedish Model", it would be yet another law that could not be enforced.
Even if it were introduced Indies and Escort Agencies could operate as normal, they would just need to put a get out clause on the web-site stating that you are only buying companionship ---- some already do that.

If this is an excuse to stop trafficking then I simply don't buy it, the percentage of girls forced into prostitution in the UK is tiny compared to the volume of girls working willingly.

Whatever happens I will carry on punting until the day I die./wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#11 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:34

I am 110% confident that the UK will not follow the "Swedish Model", it would be yet another law that could not be enforced.
Even if it were introduced Indies and Escort Agencies could operate as normal, they would just need to put a get out clause on the web-site stating that you are only buying companionship ---- some already do that.


The whole proposal, and all the possible ramifications, is far too complex for my brain cell to even start to comprehend, I can't even work out what the proposal hopes to achieve let alone how it intends to achieve it, whatever it might be. I have no idea how Swedish law works when the purchase of something is illegal but the selling of the same thing is legal, that's for those poor buggers to sort out and I wish them luck in doing so, but one thing is for sure if it happens here it will be a bigger farce than the current "control" situation in SOA 2003.

Anything I say on the subject will be total guesswork and should be given no credence whatsoever, however AFAIK it will be the first time in "modern" UK law that the selling of something is legal but the purchase of the same thing is illegal, and as such it stands every chance of being a monumental cock-up if only for the simple reason that there is no previous legal argument(s) to draw upon.

Btw Jimmy, the proposals will, in theory, not change the current legal standing of any prostitute so the use and usefulness of the T&C disclaimer will remain unchanged - not necessary and untried in any UK court.

#12 akanostromo

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:45

Strikes me trhat the scope for unintended outcomes is huge. In every other context, politicians are keen to tell us that Britain has a culture & economy more like USA than Europe, and any suggestion that we should look to Scandanavia for social or economic ideas has always fallen on deaf ears. Weird then to suddenly ignore what happens in USA where both prostitute & buyer are committing an offense in most states. It does not appear to have stopped or reduced either, but it has caused the game to be almost totally dominated by criminals. In New Orleans, Galveston & other places myself & the guys I work with find that any male only passengers in cabs are offered girls & drugs of our choice in the same breath. One constantly hears of guys who booked a girl to their hotel room & were robbed as a result. Does the tax payer really want pricy police officers wasting time on entrapping WGs & punters just because it's an easy way the tick some of the target boxes.
Then there will be economic & social consequences; how many women do it because it's both a better prospect than the CSA or call centre work and because it gives them time to organise & look after their children in a country that pushes women to work without providing adequate child care.

and so on & so on.....
I did have a MacDonalds - ONCE

#13 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:51

The sale and purchase (giving and recieving money or goods) of sex is not illegal in any shape or form (SOA 2003 age related law etc. notwithstanding), what is illegal is soliciting and kerb-crawling, neither of which involve to transfer of money or goods.


You must be a lawyer. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> Funny though they still make comments in evidence that his zip was down.
Elrond elrondmiddleengland

#14 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:53

Strikes me trhat the scope for unintended outcomes is huge. In every other context, politicians are keen to tell us that Britain has a culture & economy more like USA than Europe, and any suggestion that we should look to Scandanavia for social or economic ideas has always fallen on deaf ears. Weird then to suddenly ignore what happens in USA where both prostitute & buyer are committing an offense in most states. It does not appear to have stopped or reduced either, but it has caused the game to be almost totally dominated by criminals. In New Orleans, Galveston & other places myself & the guys I work with find that any male only passengers in cabs are offered girls & drugs of our choice in the same breath. One constantly hears of guys who booked a girl to their hotel room & were robbed as a result. Does the tax payer really want pricy police officers wasting time on entrapping WGs & punters just because it's an easy way the tick some of the target boxes.
Then there will be economic & social consequences; how many women do it because it's both a better prospect than the CSA or call centre work and because it gives them time to organise & look after their children in a country that pushes women to work without providing adequate child care.

and so on & so on.....


Alas few listen
Elrond elrondmiddleengland

#15 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 15:56

You must be a lawyer. /wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />


No, I just happen to know the difference between prostitution, soliciting and kerb-crawling.

#16 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 16:13

Would this be scrapped once the Labour government exit soon? /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#17 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 16:19

Does the tax payer really want pricy police officers wasting time on entrapping WGs & punters just because it's an easy way the tick some of the target boxes.
Then there will be economic & social consequences; how many women do it because it's both a better prospect than the CSA or call centre work and because it gives them time to organise & look after their children in a country that pushes women to work without providing adequate child care.

and so on & so on.....


yes you're right the state would do things just because it's convenient for the state not often because the state want to make things work well for its citizens.

#18 John Robertson

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 16:20

what happens in USA where both prostitute & buyer are committing an offense in most states. It does not appear to have stopped or reduced either, but it has caused the game to be almost totally dominated by criminals.


You're looking in the wrong places, or maybe are just in the wrong cities. The agencies in the major U.S. cities are just like the London agencies, they take a cut but they're not "criminals" except in technical sense that prostitution is illegal. And the indies are the indies, same here as there.

However, punting in the U.S. is more expensive, and more complicated due to screening, than it is in the U.K.

#19 Johny MK

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 16:21

The whole proposal, and all the possible ramifications, is far too complex for my brain cell to even start to comprehend, I can't even work out what the proposal hopes to achieve let alone how it intends to achieve it, whatever it might be. I have no idea how Swedish law works when the purchase of something is illegal but the selling of the same thing is legal, that's for those poor buggers to sort out and I wish them luck in doing so, but one thing is for sure if it happens here it will be a bigger farce than the current "control" situation in SOA 2003.

Anything I say on the subject will be total guesswork and should be given no credence whatsoever, however AFAIK it will be the first time in "modern" UK law that the selling of something is legal but the purchase of the same thing is illegal, and as such it stands every chance of being a monumental cock-up if only for the simple reason that there is no previous legal argument(s) to draw upon.

Btw Jimmy, the proposals will, in theory, not change the current legal standing of any prostitute so the use and usefulness of the T&C disclaimer will remain unchanged - not necessary and untried in any UK court.


Sasfan, my thoughts entirely. It is ludicrous to suggest that the sale of sex, or indeed any other item may be legal, whilst the purchase thereof may be illegal /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#20 Johny MK

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 16:24

Strikes me trhat the scope for unintended outcomes is huge. In every other context, politicians are keen to tell us that Britain has a culture & economy more like USA than Europe, and any suggestion that we should look to Scandanavia for social or economic ideas has always fallen on deaf ears. Weird then to suddenly ignore what happens in USA where both prostitute & buyer are committing an offense in most states. It does not appear to have stopped or reduced either, but it has caused the game to be almost totally dominated by criminals. In New Orleans, Galveston & other places myself & the guys I work with find that any male only passengers in cabs are offered girls & drugs of our choice in the same breath. One constantly hears of guys who booked a girl to their hotel room & were robbed as a result. Does the tax payer really want pricy police officers wasting time on entrapping WGs & punters just because it's an easy way the tick some of the target boxes.
Then there will be economic & social consequences; how many women do it because it's both a better prospect than the CSA or call centre work and because it gives them time to organise & look after their children in a country that pushes women to work without providing adequate child care.

and so on & so on.....


Akanostromo, my view is that this law would lead to a situation that you would describe.
I think it would force prices up and that will attract organised crime.

#21 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 16:33

Akanostromo, my view is that this law would lead to a situation that you would describe.
I think it would force prices up and that will attract organised crime.


I thought it was this very reason that the gangs that had global network of human trafficking (organised crime) much like drug trafficking gangs, the state had started to consider taking away the demand "punters purchasing" to stop gangs raking in /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#22 Xenia

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 16:55

Sasfan, my thoughts entirely. It is ludicrous to suggest that the sale of sex, or indeed any other item may be legal, whilst the purchase thereof may be illegal /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />


But it does works in Duty Free retailers everywhere. They can legally sell you any amount of alcohol cigarettes, tobaccos, etc, (though many of them would not), but its illegal for consumer to purchase over allowed amount.

#23 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 16:59

but its illegal for consumer to purchase over allowed amount.


Technically it is not illegal to exchange money for the goods, what is illegal is to bring goods in excess of the legal allowance into the country, it's nit-picking I know, but there is a difference.

#24 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 17:17

Sasfan

I know you are correct, I was being very sloppy in my intepretation of the law. So sorry. It still means that if I go kerb crawling to buy some sex, then I will get done.


Would this be scrapped once the Labour government exit soon? /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />


If it passes into law, then I do not think the Conservatives would repeal it. It is Phillip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, who has proposed an amendment to the current Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill that would criminalise the buying of sexual services.

I have written to my conservative MP expressing concerns about the proposed amendement. Though if he is against prostitution, then I have no idea who to vote for, the green party does not get many votes here.
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#25 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 17:21

Sasfan

I know you are correct, I was being very sloppy in my intepretation of the law. So sorry. It still means that if I go kerb crawling to buy some sex, then I will get done.


No problem, however you are not as sloppy as the kerb-crawling legislation, if you give it even the most perfunctory glance you do wonder if the people who are convicted actually want to get caught.

#26 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 17:32

No problem, however you are not as sloppy as the kerb-crawling legislation, if you give it even the most perfunctory glance you do wonder if the people who are convicted actually want to get caught.


Poorly drafted laws like the ban on fox hunting, now appears to be totally legal after the recent appeal case. At least fox hunters get backing from monied people, ker crawlers of prostitutes who went to appeal would not receive a great deal of sympathy or support for their appeal case.
Elrond elrondmiddleengland

#27 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 17:57

Sasfan

I know you are correct, I was being very sloppy in my intepretation of the law. So sorry. It still means that if I go kerb crawling to buy some sex, then I will get done.




If it passes into law, then I do not think the Conservatives would repeal it. It is Phillip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, who has proposed an amendment to the current Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill that would criminalise the buying of sexual services.

I have written to my conservative MP expressing concerns about the proposed amendement. Though if he is against prostitution, then I have no idea who to vote for, the green party does not get many votes here.


probably you wouldn't need to worry too much over it if this law had passed, there would be a massive riot in the UK just like in France.

There will be more rapes targeting vulnerable women, more murders, social unrest and depression and suicide once the state/the dictatorship had taken away what people need as a basic need to be a human.

Try to let the state take away what men need, the state would be thrown into a big fire you'll see more decent people leaving this country since people would get fed up about the state keeps telling people "do as I tell you but not do what I do" /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#28 John Robertson

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 18:21

There will be more rapes targeting vulnerable women, more murders, social unrest and depression and suicide once the state/the dictatorship had taken away what people need as a basic need to be a human.


Ummm, I don't think so, this is starting to feel like the flip side of Harman now.

Reality is, not much would change, except that the police will waste more taxpayer dollars, fewer taxes will be paid, and customer costs will rise. Perhaps compensated economically by growth in the porn industry, as potential punters switch to porn/DIY as a safer, lower-cost alternative to punting.

But I share your belief about giving the big giant finger to meddling governments, hell I live in the States so I know all about meddlers.

#29 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 18:37

Ummm, I don't think so, this is starting to feel like the flip side of Harman now.

Reality is, not much would change, except that the police will waste more taxpayer dollars, fewer taxes will be paid, and customer costs will rise.

Perhaps compensated economically by growth in the porn industry, as potential punters switch to porn/DIY as a safer, lower-cost alternative to punting.

But I share your belief about giving the big giant finger to meddling governments, hell I live in the States so I know all about meddlers.


Maybe JR. Just maybe..

is anyone coming from New Zealand the land of peace where punting is perfectly legal i.e. brothels. bet they're thinking what the h**l going on over there?

Isn't it rather odd one conservative MP can change the law so easily? reminds me of a movie where the executioner was sexually repressed physically & kept murdering women. wonder if this MP is a man who has decent human desire or want to see other men castrated because he can't..? /eek.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

#30 JKJ

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 18:48

very likely ISPs would come under pressure to block access to sites like this which 'solicited criminal activity'.

#31 Tiny Madame Rika

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 19:30

I read the article fully now it looks to me Jon B Collins has written very well balanced views on this topic. (He also included New Zealand model himself! wow)

Jon also questions..

Others support tackling demand, but question whether criminalisation is the best approach. Certainly, Ekberg emphasised the need to do much more than simply change the law. Sweden also had a widespread public debate on the issue to explore the benefits of the change, and ran public information campaigns about the realities of prostitution to support the law's introduction.

I doubt if the state would dish out such financial support offering training & education to prostitutes to make them employable in a country even Cambridge students are doing it to pay for their own education/life as a student.

Jon explains:

There was also significant investment in services to help women leave prostitution and to gain access to education and employment, and in the police and social services to allow them to implement the measures. She also stressed that ending the criminalisation of women in prostitution, at the same time as criminalising demand, has been crucial in Sweden's approach. Replicating it would therefore require all of these elements to be in place.

Certainly demand is the key issue. In the 1990s, the number of men buying sex in the UK doubled, as prostitution became increasingly normalised, and even glamorised. The debate started by Fiona Mactaggart and others on how best to tackle demand therefore needs to be further explored. The important lesson to learn from the Swedish model, though, is that changing the law to criminalise demand will not be effective without public support and without investment in the necessary services. However, what is also clear is that if real progress is going to be made on this issue, the debate must be about managing demand for prostitution, rather than just tinkering with responses to it.

how does the state know the demand has doubled in the last decade?

what is it exactly when Jon says "managing demand"? Punters need to go ethical in terms of how they source punting experience?

this article seems to be about the price the state would have to pay should they wish to proceed with criminalising paid sex and how much would that be? Quantify exactly then we'd know the score.

#32 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 19:41

Managing demand, as soon as someone says managing demand, they consider prostitution is bad. If they consider prostitution OK, then demand would not need to be managed.

Demand may have risen, but supply has also risen. There are many women out there who are not getting enough work as prostitutes for one reason or the other. (Jimmy would say price and competition from EC workers, and I would probably have to agree)
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#33 elrond

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 19:45

Alas we are not France, so no riots in the streets.
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#34 Jimmyredcab

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 20:55

Demand may have risen, but supply has also risen. There are many women out there who are not getting enough work as prostitutes for one reason or the other. (Jimmy would say price and competition from EC workers, and I would probably have to agree)


Girls like parisb who charge sensible rates and offer 30 minute bookings will always be busy, it is the ones who seem to think they are worth £200 an hour who will spend a lot of time watching soaps on the TV.
No one could produce accurate figures but I am confident there are more women in this industry now than there has ever been, and soon the Bulgarians will be arriving in their thousands.

#35 John Robertson

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 22:01

Speaking the Swedish model, I just googled Sweden + escort.

First site I found, the woman wants 560 Euros per hour, no OWO at that price. Second site, the woman had a 980 Euro minimum.

If that is the Swedish model, then punting in the U.K. will decline by at least 90%, since only visiting Middle Eastern princes or EPL starters will be able to afford to punt.

1000 Euro minimum, yeah that would be nice.

#36 Ghenghis

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 22:02

Sasfan, my thoughts entirely. It is ludicrous to suggest that the sale of sex, or indeed any other item may be legal, whilst the purchase thereof may be illegal /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />


Unfortunately, ludicrous or not, that is the Swedish Law and they are very proud of it.

probably you wouldn't need to worry too much over it if this law had passed, there would be a massive riot in the UK just like in France.

There will be more rapes targeting vulnerable women, more murders, social unrest and depression and suicide once the state/the dictatorship had taken away what people need as a basic need to be a human.

Try to let the state take away what men need, the state would be thrown into a big fire you'll see more decent people leaving this country since people would get fed up about the state keeps telling people "do as I tell you but not do what I do" /sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


If you want a riot, draw a cartoon and they will come out on British streets in their hundreds of thousands, make a film about Christ being a homosexual and they will protest in the hundreds, but target prostitutes and punters and they will queue up for the rotten fruit to throw at us in the pillories.

very likely ISPs would come under pressure to block access to sites like this which 'solicited criminal activity'.


Yes, and those who looked at it would be on the sex offenders list alongside paedophiles, nice prospect eh?

Girls like parisb who charge sensible rates and offer 30 minute bookings will always be busy, it is the ones who seem to think they are worth £200 an hour who will spend a lot of time watching soaps on the TV.
No one could produce accurate figures but I am confident there are more women in this industry now than there has ever been, and soon the Bulgarians will be arriving in their thousands.


Unusually, JRC appears to have posted this in the wrong thread???? /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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#37 Jimmyredcab

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 22:14




Unusually, JRC appears to have posted this in the wrong thread???? /confused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />





I really don't think so, my post (34) is a follow up to elronds post (32)

#38 Uniman

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 22:48

Speaking the Swedish model, I just googled Sweden + escort.

First site I found, the woman wants 560 Euros per hour, no OWO at that price. Second site, the woman had a 980 Euro minimum.

If that is the Swedish model, then punting in the U.K. will decline by at least 90%, since only visiting Middle Eastern princes or EPL starters will be able to afford to punt.

1000 Euro minimum, yeah that would be nice.


Not the best way to find the scene in Sweden which I know. The standard price is between 1500 and 2500 kronor (USD 220-375), with some charging higher prices. See the following sites.

http://www.stockholmcityescorts.com/ which has first page for recommended escorts but click on 'All escorts' in the left column to get more.

http://www.sthlmtjej...ite=SthlmTjejer
The content of this site changes almost daily.

For discussions on the escort scene in Sweden see http://www.sexwork.net/ but you will have to know Swedish although there is one forum in English on that site.

#39 John Robertson

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 22:50

Yes, and those who looked at it would be on the sex offenders list alongside paedophiles, nice prospect eh?


Are you saying that because you know that's what the U.K. would do, or because you assume that's the policy of countries who have made prostitution illegal.

Because here in the States, we might not legally be able to buy sex, but the ladies can advertise all they want (assuming they use a bit of discretion in their ads), and the punters can talk on forums and review sites as much as they wish. Nobody seriously has tried to shut such discussions down, or to prosecute viewers of such material.

#40 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 22:54

Not the best way to find the scene in Sweden which I know. The standard price is between 1500 and 2500 kronor (USD 220-375), with some charging higher prices. See the following sites.

http://www.stockholmcityescorts.com/ which has first page for recommended escorts but click on 'All escorts' in the left column to get more.

http://www.sthlmtjej...ite=SthlmTjejer
The content of this site changes almost daily.

For discussions on the escort scene in Sweden see http://www.sexwork.net/ but you will have to know Swedish although there is one forum in English on that site.


I hope you know something about Swedish law? because I don't know a thing about it, however what intrigues me is this, is there a law in Sweden that concerns incitement to commit a criminal offence? if so are people who advertise sexual services for sale not inciting others to commit a criminal offence? and if so are they prosecuted for doing so?

#41 John Robertson

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 22:56

I hope you know something about Swedish law? because I don't know a thing about it, however what intrigues me is this, is there a law in Sweden that concerns incitement to commit a criminal offence? if so are people who advertise sexual services for sale not inciting others to commit a criminal offence? and if so are they prosecuted for doing so?


See my comment re the States above. It's illegal to solicit sex in the U.S., just as it's illegal to sell it, but even the bluenoses don't put much effort into shutting down the Internet ads. I would guess that it's that way in many other countries where prostitution in technically illegal, but in reality mostly winked at.

#42 SaSfan

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 23:11

See my comment re the States above. It's illegal to solicit sex in the U.S., just as it's illegal to sell it, but even the bluenoses don't put much effort into shutting down the Internet ads. I would guess that it's that way in many other countries where prostitution in technically illegal, but in reality mostly winked at.


I know very little about US law but as I understand it all the legislation concerning prostitution is State law because, and once again as I understand it, there is no Federal law concerning prostitution, and as such it varies from state to state, but as I read your 2 posts am I right in thinking that as a general rule that the advertising, selling and purchasing of sex in the USA is illegal?

#43 Ghenghis

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Posted 03 December 2007 - 23:22

Are you saying that because you know that's what the U.K. would do, or because you assume that's the policy of countries who have made prostitution illegal.

Because here in the States, we might not legally be able to buy sex, but the ladies can advertise all they want (assuming they use a bit of discretion in their ads), and the punters can talk on forums and review sites as much as they wish. Nobody seriously has tried to shut such discussions down, or to prosecute viewers of such material.


John, in the USA, are you arrested for trying to buy and or buying sex?

In Sweden it is just criminal for the man to participate, the woman is legally entitled to sell her body. Their flawed reasoning is that paying a woman for sex is akin to rape and you don't prosecute the victim of a rape (Unless, presumably, you are Saudi Arabian and thus a total dick head despite owning 11% of the NYSE).

Thus, if you are a rapst of attempted rapist in the UK, you would be on the Sex Offenders Register and thus the logic follows that if you make punting and punters sex offenders........
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#44 starman

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 00:37

prostitution laws in Sweden
http://www.sans.nu/engelska/laws.htm

#45 SaSfan

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 00:58

prostitution laws in Sweden
http://www.sans.nu/engelska/laws.htm


Thank you for that, the more I look into the proposed legislation the more complicated the ramifications get, and I really do fear for the mental condition of anybody that seriously proposes leaving selling legal but making buying illegal, I thought I could dream up some daft things but I have to admit to being seriously outclassed by the current crop of imbeciles.

#46 Xenia

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 01:20

Thank you for that, the more I look into the proposed legislation the more complicated the ramifications get, and I really do fear for the mental condition of anybody that seriously proposes leaving selling legal but making buying illegal, I thought I could dream up some daft things but I have to admit to being seriously outclassed by the current crop of imbeciles.


You probabaly already read this article, but in case you did not.
http://www.salli.org...tio/kulick.html

There is interesting quote from there (in bold)

It should be immediately apparent that there are a number of quite serious problems with the way this law is formulated; problems that make it extremely difficult to interpret and enforce. The four key words 'remuneration', 'procures', 'temporary', and 'sexual relationship' are far from clear-cut. What constitutes remuneration? A nice dinner in a fancy restaurant - is that remuneration? (Actually, in this case, the courts have been instructed that remuneration includes non-monetary remuneration, 'such as narcotics, alcohol or furs').

#47 SaSfan

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 01:23

You probabaly already read this article, but in case you did not.
http://www.salli.org...tio/kulick.html

There is interesting quote from there (in bold)

It should be immediately apparent that there are a number of quite serious problems with the way this law is formulated; problems that make it extremely difficult to interpret and enforce. The four key words 'remuneration', 'procures', 'temporary', and 'sexual relationship' are far from clear-cut. What constitutes remuneration? A nice dinner in a fancy restaurant - is that remuneration? (Actually, in this case, the courts have been instructed that remuneration includes non-monetary remuneration, 'such as narcotics, alcohol or furs').


That situation is covered in the proposed legislation by :-

"In this section "payment" means any financial advantage, including the discharge of an obligation to pay or the provision of goods or services (including sexual services) gratuitously or at a discount."

#48 Calynx

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 01:35

You probabaly already read this article, but in case you did not.
http://www.salli.org...tio/kulick.html
[/I]


Also Helen Self's work http://www.salli.org/muistio/self.html and her comparison of Sweden with England and Wales. She was quite disparaging about the whole thing.

#49 Johny MK

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 07:43

Also Helen Self's work http://www.salli.org/muistio/self.html and her comparison of Sweden with England and Wales. She was quite disparaging about the whole thing.


Interesting article Calynx.

#50 Johny MK

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Posted 04 December 2007 - 07:53

Likewise Xenia.