softlad

when role play goes too far..... Suicide story from 'The Sun' today

60 posts in this topic

A terrible experience for the ladies involved.

I have always considered suicide a selfish cowardly way out, and to involve un witting parties is awfull.

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My heart goes out to the ladies in this instance. The evidence as reported by the Sun suggests a charge (under the Suicide Act 1961) will not succeed, there being no knowledge on their part of his intention (so they cannot aid, abet, assist and so on). Up to the CPS whether it goes to court. In that event, prejudice or unfamiliarity with fetish could kick in, but hopefully not.

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This just confirms the reputation city bankers have for being completely selfish and a bit twisted. My heart goes out to his family. Imagine finding out 1-that your husband was dead and 2-that he had a habit for paid for s&m . Awfull tragedy.

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Very traumatic for the ladies concerned.

I doubt a charge of assisting suicide would stick-- the girls were not acting knowingly. And, consider the unfortunate end of the composer Kotzwara (lifted from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frantisek_Kotzwara) and the acquittal of the prostitute involved. Doesn't this set a precedent?

On February 2, 1791 while he was in London, Kotzwara visited a prostitute named Susannah Hill in Vine Street, Westminster. After dinner with her in her lodgings, Kotzwara paid her two shillings and requested that she cut off his testicles. Hill refused to do so. Kotzwara then tied a ligature around the doorknob, the other end fastened around his neck, and proceeded to have sexual intercourse with Hill. After it was over, Kotzwara was dead. His is most likely the first recorded death from erotic asphyxiation.

Susannah Hill was subsequently tried for Kotzwara's murder at the Old Bailey but was acquitted. The jury chose to believe her testimony about the nature of Kotzwara's death. The court records of the case were supposedly destroyed in order to avoid a public scandal, though it is likely that some kind of copy was made by an individual. It is believed that this copy was used to produce a pamphlet about the incident, including Hill's account of the event. A 2005 radio competition organised by the Radio Prague station led a listener to reveal that these court records had in fact not been destroyed, and somehow found their way to the Francis Countway Library of Medicine in Boston.

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consider the unfortunate end of the composer Kotzwara

A most interesting find, Wanderlust. It would be interesting to see the recovered papers. Within such a long time period, there might be more recent cases where the degree of authority the court had could be more clearly established with regards precedent I suspect. The vast number of deaths of this kind have been disguised in official records, but some are extant in the medical and legal journals. I do hope the girls concerned receive good legal counsel - I wonder if it is perhaps even the sort of thing a human rights court celebrity might find worthwhile to take up just for the 'challenge.'

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I find it rather strange that the taxi-driver who drove the ladies to the woods should also have been arrested and bailed.

I can't see them getting anywhere with that one.

He's not going to like having to explain that one when his licence comes up for renewal and it's revealed by his CRB check.

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I find it rather strange that the taxi-driver who drove the ladies to the woods should also have been arrested and bailed.

I can't see them getting anywhere with that one.

He's not going to like having to explain that one when his licence comes up for renewal and it's revealed by his CRB check.

Not so strange.

The media have obviously been allowed to name the Taxi driver as his role may be as nothing in the grand scheme of things, 'cept for his view of the girls knowledge of what was going to happen.

As for the girls, my own view is that they're probably a tad more involved in the suicide/murder than we are being made to believe. Hence their names have been hidden by the media.

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I find it rather strange that the taxi-driver who drove the ladies to the woods should also have been arrested and bailed.

I can't see them getting anywhere with that one.

He's not going to like having to explain that one when his licence comes up for renewal and it's revealed by his CRB check.

If he knowingly was part of the plan for the man to end his life, he is potentially culpable (see the recent CPS notes this year on decisions to prosecute).

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If he knowingly was part of the plan for the man to end his life, he is potentially culpable (see the recent CPS notes this year on decisions to prosecute).

A long shot for the rozzers..... he was certainly trafficking the girls.

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As for the girls, my own view is that they're probably a tad more involved in the suicide/murder than we are being made to believe. Hence their names have been hidden by the media.

Marie Laurent and Alex Sturley, both aged 35.

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Marie Laurent and Alex Sturley, both aged 35.

Duh! Didn't read that in the link. Innocent then

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he was certainly trafficking the girls.

Only if he was doing it for sexual exploitation - Section 58 SOA 2003 :-

58 Trafficking within the UK for sexual exploitation

(1) A person commits an offence if he intentionally arranges or facilitates travel within the United Kingdom by another person (:o and either

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Duh! Didn't read that in the link. Innocent then

Looks like it :o.

You are right. There may be a lot more to it than as disclosed in the Sun - but on the face of it, the girls' story does seem very plausible. I can't see them being prosecuted .....[famous last words] :D.

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A most interesting find, Wanderlust. It would be interesting to see the recovered papers. Within such a long time period, there might be more recent cases where the degree of authority the court had could be more clearly established with regards precedent I suspect. The vast number of deaths of this kind have been disguised in official records, but some are extant in the medical and legal journals. I do hope the girls concerned receive good legal counsel - I wonder if it is perhaps even the sort of thing a human rights court celebrity might find worthwhile to take up just for the 'challenge.'

Already been done in Purdey v DPP [2008]

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2008/2565.html

and Pretty v DPP [2001]

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/2001/61.html

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Marie Laurent and Alex Sturley, both aged 35.

I just looked at the web site (katies lovely escorts) and there is only one lady showing aged 35, can we assume she is one of the ladies involved ?

or are they falsely ageing both girls.....:o

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and yet he only payed them £60 ?

and why would 2 WG's meet a guy in woods for only £60 :o

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Not being into these type of 'games' myself --- what reason could there have been for the 2 girls have had for leaving him for a time before ' retunrning' ? Is that not strange ?

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Not being into these type of 'games' myself --- what reason could there have been for the 2 girls have had for leaving him for a time before ' retunrning' ? Is that not strange ?

I used to know a wg that had a client that would stand on a chair with a noose around his neck. She had to go to the bathroom for a moment. He would kick away the chair, she would hear it and frantically cut him down. The noose he used wasn't the one that would snap his neck, just choke him. (hopefully)

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Very sad, why kill yourself because you've lost your job? And have a family at home, and why did he have to Involve the two escorts? He didn't have the bottle to do It alone. :o

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Not being into these type of 'games' myself --- what reason could there have been for the 2 girls have had for leaving him for a time before ' retunrning' ? Is that not strange ?

One can only speculate.

I suspect that the taxi-driver was asked to wait in his car by the road, so that he could take them back home. That may explain why he was arrested ie. because he was in the vicinity at the time of death. They may have gone back to the taxi for something or to tell the taxi -driver something. Who knows?

The Sun also said that they cut him down. So one of the girls ( or the taxi-driver) must have had a knife with them.

I'm surprised that the police didn't charge them for being in posession of a bladed weapon.

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I cant believe they can publish so many names like that its digusting... no one has been charged with a crime yet those two poor girls have been outed by the Sun. The family must be absolutely distraught, to loose your father/ husband then to have the story of how he died plastered all over the Sun. What happened to the right to privacy?

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On February 2, 1791 while he was in London, Kotzwara visited a prostitute named Susannah Hill in Vine Street, Westminster. After dinner with her in her lodgings, Kotzwara paid her two shillings and requested that she cut off his testicles. Hill refused to do so. Kotzwara then tied a ligature around the doorknob, the other end fastened around his neck, and proceeded to have sexual intercourse with Hill. After it was over, Kotzwara was dead. His is most likely the first recorded death from erotic asphyxiation.

Reading the newspaper report again, its not clear that he was into autoerotic asphyxiation or just humiliation. The former is a very dangerous fetish but with a strong subculture following. I imagine that anyone contemplating it would be well to research it thoroughly - for safety reasons not just legal ones.

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