elrond

New police estimate of 2600 trafficked

44 posts in this topic

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-report-into-brothels-dismissed-as-amateurish-2053046.html

Well its less than 4000, and one trafficked sex worker is one too many. Still some would say the 2,600 figure is still an over estimate. Lets see what the report actually says when it is published. The article is from the wife of McShane the 25,000 trafficked women.

and comment from

http://stephenpaterson.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/prohibitionist-dismay-at-uk-sex-slave-stats-shortage/

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-report-into-brothels-dismissed-as-amateurish-2053046.html

Well its less than 4000, and one trafficked sex worker is one too many. Still some would say the 2,600 figure is still an over estimate. Lets see what the report actually says when it is published. The article is from the wife of McShane the 25,000 trafficked women.

and comment from

http://stephenpaterson.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/prohibitionist-dismay-at-uk-sex-slave-stats-shortage/

I was struck by:

Organisations working with trafficked women are astonished that researchers did not find a single trafficked woman from Africa. "It is mildly surprising, to say the least, that they found no women from Africa because the accommodation units for trafficked women are entirely taken up with women from Africa," says Mr Steen.

Is this true? All the time we were told that most trafficking is from E. Europe or the Far East.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-report-into-brothels-dismissed-as-amateurish-2053046.html

Well its less than 4000, and one trafficked sex worker is one too many. Still some would say the 2,600 figure is still an over estimate. Lets see what the report actually says when it is published. The article is from the wife of McShane the 25,000 trafficked women.

and comment from

http://stephenpaterson.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/prohibitionist-dismay-at-uk-sex-slave-stats-shortage/

The woman's a nutter. She's used the old tabloid trick of putting the journalist's own opinions in as being from a "senior source" etc. etc. Whenever you see that, or similar phrases, it's just the journalist trying to make their story sound as if it's based on something concrete. The poppy project, which has been in operation since 2003 has dealt with just over a thousand trafficking victims....and that includes all forms of trafficking e.g domestic slaves etc as well as sex slaves - Operation pentameter found only a couple of hundred over two years nationwide as the blog response says; so how Joan Smith can claim trafficked women are easy to find and that there are 10000 or 4000 at any one time is beyond me.

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I was struck by:

Organisations working with trafficked women are astonished that researchers did not find a single trafficked woman from Africa. "It is mildly surprising, to say the least, that they found no women from Africa because the accommodation units for trafficked women are entirely taken up with women from Africa," says Mr Steen.

Is this true? All the time we were told that most trafficking is from E. Europe or the Far East.

Yes, this is strange. For some reason, which is mystifying not just moi but professionals looking after London sex workers, the Poppy Project is apparently full of African trafficking victims. Checking out the UK Human Trafficking Centre stats I posted on recently, Nigerians form the largest contingent of allegedly trafficked persons from all countries - 123 out of 706.

http://stephenpaterson.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/uk-human-trafficking-claims-false-in-68-of-cases/

The thing is, nobody can work out where these Africans have been before they arrive at Poppy. Africans simply don't seem to be very prominent in the London sex scene cf other nationalities. Maybe they just arrive at the airports or docks, claim to be trafficked, and get referred on by the Border Agency?

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-report-into-brothels-dismissed-as-amateurish-2053046.html

Well its less than 4000, and one trafficked sex worker is one too many. Still some would say the 2,600 figure is still an over estimate. Lets see what the report actually says when it is published. The article is from the wife of McShane the 25,000 trafficked women.

and comment from

http://stephenpaterson.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/prohibitionist-dismay-at-uk-sex-slave-stats-shortage/

I bet the real figure is something like 10 - 50% of that. Trafficked women, no doubt, do exist but I think they are a complete subset of what us punters actually come into contact with. They will be kept within their own communities and unless you are a native speaker of the particular language involved you will never come into contact with them

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Not research as we know it, Jim:

The study, codenamed Project Acumen, relied on interviews with 254 women in London brothels and extrapolated the remaining national figure using newspaper reports and patchy existing data.

'Acumen' ?? :cool:

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Not research as we know it, Jim:

The study, codenamed Project Acumen, relied on interviews with 254 women in London brothels and extrapolated the remaining national figure using newspaper reports and patchy existing data.

'Acumen' ?? :cool:

All too much like 'research' as we know it on this subject.....

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"trafficked" in this context has outlived its usefulness. Also in the Indie, Joan smith finally said something I can agree with. Use the word "slavery" I think we need that to get clarity.

"Trafficked" is just too loose; the majority of illegals and asylum seekers had themselves trafficked. They put themselves in the hands of and paid gangs who have made people trafficking a business. Some of them came to do domestic work (private or hotels and conract), some to work in the food trade or construction and not a few came to work in the sex business.

They all were trafficked but most were volunteers.

In our corner the harm is amongst those who were tricked after arrival and those whose journey was not voluntary.

We won't get clarity while the figures are handled by people who have a vested interest in inflation. Just as no drug squad boss is ever going to canvass for his own job to be abolished.

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I recall Anthony Steen said, during a debate, that the number is probably in the hundreds. Has he changed is mind now, or is it a misquote?

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I recall Anthony Steen said, during a debate, that the number is probably in the hundreds. Has he changed is mind now, or is it a misquote?

I just read Stephen Patersons piece, he pointed this out as well

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I bet the real figure is something like 10 - 50% of that. Trafficked women, no doubt, do exist but I think they are a complete subset of what us punters actually come into contact with.

Ah, but to reach the number you first thought of, you can extrapolate! So, lets all sit down and think about it!

Yippee! I've found a trafficked woman! (Surely, you remember? She was chinese, didn't speak too much English, and on transfer to new knocking shop, the Mama-san booked a local taxi to pick her up from the station? So trafficked!) Ah, now this is one woman in, say, Dingsbumpshausen, pop 34,328. Fine (those of you with nice green solar powered calculators) divide 34,328 into UK population of ?60,000,000, then multiply by the number of trafficked women in sample, and hey, presto, we have 1747.8443, which is pretty close to the ACPO figure, so, obviously reliable, and I'm a "senior (over 60) source" so obviously trustworthy, and we are home!

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Yes, this is strange. For some reason, which is mystifying not just moi but professionals looking after London sex workers, the Poppy Project is apparently full of African trafficking victims. Checking out the UK Human Trafficking Centre stats I posted on recently, Nigerians form the largest contingent of allegedly trafficked persons from all countries - 123 out of 706.

http://stephenpaterson.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/uk-human-trafficking-claims-false-in-68-of-cases/

The thing is, nobody can work out where these Africans have been before they arrive at Poppy. Africans simply don't seem to be very prominent in the London sex scene cf other nationalities. Maybe they just arrive at the airports or docks, claim to be trafficked, and get referred on by the Border Agency?

The only black WGs I've ever seen have been black British......buggered if I can think of any black girls who've been foreign. Does seem very odd unless they're trafficked domestic slaves and not sex slaves of course.

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Yes, this is strange. ....... Nigerians form the largest contingent of allegedly trafficked persons from all countries - 123 out of 706.?

Has anyone go time & patience to scour @W for Nigerian WGs or to ring round massage parlours saying he'd like one? They don't feature large anywhere I've been, looked or sought adverts. Do they exist in some substratum of sex for money, inaccessible to the general punter? Or is there some dodge going on? Has Poppy itself got anything to say on this? It all seems very odd.

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Only non-british black WG I've seen was from Botswana. She was in her early 30s and doing a PhD. Lovely lady and certainly not coerced. She was an anthropologist.

Another black girl (Ghanaian origin) was also a Phd student. Her study was Male experience of divorce - mixing work & work maybe.

But no Nigerians in 20+ years.

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Apparently there are around 30,000 in the industry.

Only about 29,800 to go then.

I wonder if the imfamous G McC is a source of information on this topic, (and is George related to Leonard?).

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Only non-british black WG I've seen was from Botswana. She was in her early 30s and doing a PhD. Lovely lady and certainly not coerced. She was an anthropologist.

Another black girl (Ghanaian origin) was also a Phd student. Her study was Male experience of divorce - mixing work & work maybe.

But no Nigerians in 20+ years.

Likewise me- only one African who was from the Ivory Coast.

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Thank-you very much for the link! And, no, I haven't finished it yet, but:

This report only examines organised, and thus illegal, forms of prostitution. (p.10)

Is that, necessarily and always, true?

Suppose that a number of WGs, each with her own flat, where she alone works, pay jointly on a co-operative basis for a web site and a receptionist, who works from her own home, by telephone.

This is, surely, "organised", but is it criminal?

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Thank-you very much for the link! And, no, I haven't finished it yet, but:

This report only examines organised, and thus illegal, forms of prostitution. (p.10)

Is that, necessarily and always, true?

Suppose that a number of WGs, each with her own flat, where she alone works, pay jointly on a co-operative basis for a web site and a receptionist, who works from her own home, by telephone.

This is, surely, "organised", but is it criminal?

It is a problem when the words "illegal/criminal" and "prostitution" appear in the same article, IMHO I think that the writer of such as you have highlighted does not have much idea of exactly what prostitution is and/or the actual legal status of prostitution, either that or he/she did not have it proof read; however I suspect that what was really meant was something along the lines of "Controlling prostitution for gain", or such like.

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It is a problem when the words "illegal/criminal" and "prostitution" appear in the same article, IMHO I think that the writer of such as you have highlighted does not have much idea of exactly what prostitution is and/or the actual legal status of prostitution, either that or he/she did not have it proof read; however I suspect that what was really meant was something along the lines of "Controlling prostitution for gain", or such like.

Here's another example from the police:

http://www.cityoflondon.police.uk/CityPolice/Media/News/030810-illegal-sex-in-the-city.htm

DCI Dave Clark, from the forces Economic Crime Directorate, said:

"At the same time we have shown again that the force will not tolerate prostitution in the city, be it as a worker, a customer or the criminal pulling the strings behind the scene."

DCI Dave is obviously unaware that prostitution is not illegal. That may explain why the arrested bankers were released without charge.

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Seems to me that a genuine effort has been made to arrive at a more accurate figure than other "estimates" to date. Simplistic assumptions have had to be made but they have been clearly identified.

The openness and comprehensiveness of the data provided is welcome. So much so that I am surprised that so far I have been unable to find out how exactly the 142 premises visited were selected and what their numerical distribution within each Region is. Of the 254 individuals interviewed, 210 were migrants which does not seem to suggest that they were representative of the country as a whole, more likely primarily London. The report does indicate, however, that the interviews took place across England and Wales, although a newspaper report referred only to London. To me, the report suggests that at present, at least, the situation in London differs from the rest of the country, especially as you travel further North. Extrapolating London data nationally may well be misleading. So it's particularly frustrating not knowing where the 142 premises were and why they were chosen.

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It was a London-based survey, Dancer. This is from the description of the 'research' in Acumen:

The study, codenamed Project Acumen, relied on interviews with 254 women in London brothels and extrapolated the remaining national figure using newspaper reports and patchy existing data.

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Many thanks for pointing me in the right direction!!

I still can't find a detailed explanation of precisely why these particular 142 premises in London were chosen and so it is not possible see whether or not there could be any bias in the selection process. The only indication I can find is:

"A variety of types of premises were visited, including businesses using disguise and/or camouflage strategies."

As this is such a fundamental element of the whole process, I am surprised at the apparent omission.

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It was a London-based survey, Dancer. This is from the description of the 'research' in Acumen:

The study, codenamed Project Acumen, relied on interviews with 254 women in London brothels and extrapolated the remaining national figure using newspaper reports and patchy existing data.

Pabulum, that was an error by Joan Smith and Emily Duggan in the Independent. The report clearly indicates that the interviews were conducted around England and Wales in 142 establishments. Dancer's quite right in saying that the method for their selection is nowhere, insofar as I can see, explained.

Of the 254, forty-four were UK nationals (none of them trafficked or otherwise classified as 'vulnerable') so the actual number of migrant sex workers was 210.

That in itself would seem to indicate that the establishments had an 83% average migrant sex worker level. Obviously they would be targetting places with high migrant levels, but I would think that would limit the geography somewhat, but to where? London, Birmingham, maybe Manchester, any other offers?

Another odd feature of the report is that it estimates the migrant sex workers as 96%+ in London. I know London is high, but 80% was what I'd heard in the past. Mind you, it excludes street workers and presumably escorts as it's omitting the 'legal' sector.

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