Coventrypunter

So they make brothels legal.....

28 posts in this topic

Suppose they change the law to make 2 or more girls working together legal. what laws would spoil it.

i reckon

1. Planning permission. can you imagine trying to get change of use from residential to personal services?. And arguments about parking and stuff.

2. Licencing. I bet they would have to be registered as sexual encounter establishments. again, loads of aggro.

3. disability regs. We have all seen shops making level access and widening doors. I bet loads of regs there to trip the unwary. And websites would have to conform to disability regs too.

4. smoking. they will be a place of work so enforcement of the smoking bans would have to be done. I envisage the girls outside the door in their skimpies having a crafty fag!!!

anyone got any more?

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Take your point - lots of room for jobsworthery.

But they're legal in Australia, and quite openly there and recognisable as such on the High Street. They don't actually have signs up saying "Knocking Shop", but it's obvious what they are. Everyone seems to have got used to it and it seems to work, without all the quite needless aura of sordid furtiveness that surrounds the profession here.

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4. smoking. they will be a place of work so enforcement of the smoking bans would have to be done. I envisage the girls outside the door in their skimpies having a crafty fag!!!

In Bristol the Council is very hot on smoking in massage parlours and regularly inspect. Brothel ...no problem. Smoking in a brothel....problem.

In 2007 on a really really hot summer's night I cut through the alley from City Road, Cardiff through Ambassador's car park to Richmond Road. All the girls were outside in their underwear having a fag. The smoking ban had just come in.

I was so shocked and excited that I nearly dropped my chips.

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In Bristol the Council is very hot on smoking in massage parlours and regularly inspect. Brothel ...no problem. Smoking in a brothel....problem.

In 2007 on a really really hot summer's night I cut through the alley from City Road, Cardiff through Ambassador's car park to Richmond Road. All the girls were outside in their underwear having a fag. The smoking ban had just come in.

I was so shocked and excited that I nearly dropped my chips.

You should of offered them a chip lol, ;)

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Well, here are some of the legal details for Australia, should anyone want to get a licence. There are a lot of things you can be fined for. You can be fined AUD15000 if there is more than one WG in the room at once, or imprisoned for 5 years. This penalty is almost as big (AUD15000/7 years) as for intimidation. this seems odd.

http://www.aussielegal.com.au/informationoutline~nocache~1~SubTopicDetailsID~821.htm

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This is something I still can't get my head around. Why on Gods earth is it illegal to have 2 or more girls working in one place?

Why not put 10+ in one place, add a license and a security team and make it safe for everyone. All the people I've met on the scene are just normal people. Just let us get on with it.

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This is something I still can't get my head around. Why on Gods earth is it illegal to have 2 or more girls working in one place?

Why not put 10+ in one place, add a license and a security team and make it safe for everyone. All the people I've met on the scene are just normal people. Just let us get on with it.

Perhaps you've been lucky and seen only the tiny minority who are working of their own free will and missed all the 80,000 girls who are trafficked.

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Suppose they change the law to make 2 or more girls working together legal. what laws would spoil it.

3. disability regs. We have all seen shops making level access and widening doors. I bet loads of regs there to trip the unwary. And websites would have to conform to disability regs too.

4. smoking. they will be a place of work so enforcement of the smoking bans would have to be done. I envisage the girls outside the door in their skimpies having a crafty fag!!!

anyone got any more?

Why would a website need to conform to disability regs? It is for the guys with a disabled brain? ;)

Seriously, doors might need to be wider and you'd need an access ramp.....

ref 4, I one stayed at the Edinburgh Novotel and on the way to a nearby Chinese there were two lap dancing clubs almost opposite, and the girls were outside fagging it. One looked a treat in a skimpy bra & pants and an overcoat. Very Mrs Overall....

And I've seen girls taking a break outside establishents in Glasgow.

I suspect planning permission or change of use of premises is the big problem.

One day the politicians will wake up and smell the coffee, once they realise how much can be made from the trade through licensing, medical tests, and a whole host of taxes.

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Why would a website need to conform to disability regs? It is for the guys with a disabled brain? ;) .....

i suggest you check out the disability regs. they cover websites.

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Perhaps you've been lucky and seen only the tiny minority who are working of their own free will and missed all the 80,000 girls who are trafficked.

I think that is a different discussion, however, if respected business were allowed to trade using a license it would reduce the risk of encountering a trafficked girl. I've no desire to perpetuate that crime happening. Legalised brothels would help punters avoid those individuals and their pimps.

Edited by Joost
Typographical Error

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In the right commercial or industrial area with no nearby schools etc. it would probably be easier to licence than a nuclear power station or a sewage farm:D

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Well, here are some of the legal details for Australia, should anyone want to get a licence. There are a lot of things you can be fined for. You can be fined AUD15000 if there is more than one WG in the room at once, or imprisoned for 5 years. This penalty is almost as big (AUD15000/7 years) as for intimidation. this seems odd.

http://www.aussielegal.com.au/informationoutline~nocache~1~SubTopicDetailsID~821.htm

Now that's interesting. Australia has a federal system, and I think those particular lawyers are in Brisbane, which I think is Queensland. My understanding is that the laws in other parts, eg New South Wales, could be completely different.

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Now that's interesting. Australia has a federal system, and I think those particular lawyers are in Brisbane, which I think is Queensland. My understanding is that the laws in other parts, eg New South Wales, could be completely different.

According to Home Office Paying the Price Consultation paper (2004):

"Responsibility for prostitution law is devolved to the eight states, a number of

which have legislated during the last two decades to legalise or decriminalise

prostitution.

Victoria and Queensland have licensed the owners and operators of brothels.

Australian Capital Territory has adopted the registration model whereby premises and their owners must register locally and operate only in industrial areas of the city.

New South Wales has decriminalised brothels without any system of licensing.

In none of these states do individuals involved in prostitution require to be

registered, although license conditions for premises require that they undertake regular health checks."

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I think that is a different discussion, however, if respected business were allowed to trade using a license it would reduce the risk of encountering a trafficked girl. I've no desire to perpetuate that crime happening. Legalised brothels would help punters avoid those individuals and their pimps.
80,001 - Harriet Harlot just lost her job yesterday and is about to be run out of the cabinet, clearly against her will and with seriously reduced wages, as a backbencher!

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I think that is a different discussion, however, if respected business were allowed to trade using a license it would reduce the risk of encountering a trafficked girl. I've no desire to perpetuate that crime happening. Legalised brothels would help punters avoid those individuals and their pimps.

Agreed.

It would also make it a hell of a lot harder for illegal pimps and trafficked women to go undetected, after all they have to advertise somewhere.

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Some sensible and tolerant views from Gwent police about tolerating brothels.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11411069

"Police in Ryder Cup city Newport on tolerating brothels

A senior police officer in Newport, the host city of golf's Ryder Cup, says his force tolerates brothels as long as they follow strict criteria."

a policy that sounds a lot like what happens in manchester. the police know where all the brothels are but as long as no under age/illegals or drugs then the police leave well alone. but they shut them down fast if any of the above are flouted.

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Some sensible and tolerant views from Gwent police about tolerating brothels.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11411069

"Police in Ryder Cup city Newport on tolerating brothels

A senior police officer in Newport, the host city of golf's Ryder Cup, says his force tolerates brothels as long as they follow strict criteria."

Uh oh! This from the related link.

Police say at least 2,600 women working as prostitutes in Wales and England were trafficked.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11371717

Where did they get "at least" from? 2,600 was just an estimate, and one that was made on very dodgy grounds.

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Uh oh! This from the related link.

Police say at least 2,600 women working as prostitutes in Wales and England were trafficked.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11371717

Where did they get "at least" from? 2,600 was just an estimate, and one that was made on very dodgy grounds.

indeed, the very reasonable pragmatic points of the Newport Police followed the Welsh Assembly's appointment of an anti-trafficking officer.... an appointment criticised by the Terence Higgins Trust (an AIDS charity).

Meantimes the UN is looking to appoint a Space Ambassador to greet aliens should they turn up....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/8025832/UN-to-appoint-space-ambassador-to-greet-alien-visitors.html

I suspect that both may find similar difficulties in making contact with their intended but will also find themselves in similarly-comfortable paper-pushing posts, well remunerated by the poor bloody taxpayer....

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Agreed.

It would also make it a hell of a lot harder for illegal pimps and trafficked women to go undetected, after all they have to advertise somewhere.

I completely agree. The problem is that if you put a business outside the law regardless of how it is conducted, you remove any further way of regulating it. Also those already outside the law anyway, racketeers, people traffickers and the like, will move in and legitimate (in the sense of well-conducted establishments with clean ladies, lawfully in the UK and working voluntarily) enterprises will be competing in the same extralegal market. And who will not be able, or at least easily able, as technically possibly "criminals" themselves to call on the Police for protection from the real villains. Who will thrive as a result.

If there were a properly regulated (by which I don't mean theoretically legal but in practice business rendered impossible by rampant jobsworthery) sexual services profession in Britain the crooks and slave-dealers would be firmly on the opposite side of the Law from decent enterprises. In their own interests as well as out of common decency the legal sector then would co-operate with the Police against the criminals and racketeers. The Police would also have a clear dividing line enabling them to tell those operating legally and those not. It is the latter who contain the horrors with which the whole profession is smeared by the media.

Bracketing the sort of decent, often very nice, ladies I visit (any of whom, at least any of whom I've seen more than once, I'd be happy to introduce as a friend or whatever to my mum) in with the scum of the global underworld as equally beyond the law as "vice criminals" is not only grossly unfair -and possibly dangerous - to the ladies concerned. It is also exactly what those trading in trafficked slaves from overseas and girls, some underage and many desperate, enslaved through drugs want.

Legalising the sexual services trade and putting it on a safe, regulated and open basis would be hated by two groups. One is the Hattie Harperson harpies regurgitating garbled Seventies feminist dogma on the basis of utter and wilful ignorance. But the other, and they would hate it much more, are the violent pimps, people-traffickers and other scum and garbage the business could then at last scrape off the sole of its (black leather, thigh length, stiletto-heeled ;-) ) boot....

Of course, once the trade is legalised it might hopefully lead to being properly socially accepted as the skilled personal services profession it is, at its best. As it has been in other times and places, in some of which a bloke who won the hand in marriage of a well-known and skilled courtesan was the envy of his fellows...

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I think that is a different discussion, however, if respected business were allowed to trade using a license it would reduce the risk of encountering a trafficked girl. I've no desire to perpetuate that crime happening. Legalised brothels would help punters avoid those individuals and their pimps.

Let's remember trafficking is a very small percentage of what goes on in the sex industry. So you legalise brothels and bring in much red tape to surround it, which will probably make cost of the application for a licence much greater and the licences themselves could prove costly - remember local authorities will probably get to agree how many licences they will allow in an area - I can see 46 applications being granted in Aberdeen going down great, especially as they do't allow saunas, or parlours here at present. It will inevitably bring in a two tier system for legal 'had enough money to set up' and 'illegal, couldnn't get a licence though may be a great place for girls to work'.

I know we girls can earn a few pounds in our careers but where do you think the money is going to come from to buy up these licences, that's without taking into account setting up the place ? With a business as potentially lucrative as a brothel where cash payments will be preferred to cc payments, I daresay there's a wonderful avenue for money laundering. In effect you could be opening up the market to more organised crime.

NZ and Australia probably don't have as much organised crime as the UK and there is plenty of space available to put brothels so as not to upset too much of the population ?

To change a system may seem like the obvious route but it's important to remember there can also be negative effects too.

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This thread has raised interesting questions about the issues which would arise if parlous were made illegal. If a government considered making parlous legal, there would be many things to consider; Who would be responsible for issuing licences? How would applying the process of applying for a licence be carried out? If an application for a licence was turned down, should there be a way of appealing against the decision? Should there be limits as how many WGs would be allowed to work in parlous and what would this limit be? Should there be limits how many parlours can be established in a given area and what would this limit be? Would plans to legalize parlours face a lot of opposition? Would there be restrictions as to where parlours could be placed? For instance, would parlous not be allowed in residential areas? I believe a major reasons why parlous are illegal is that the authorities may think that legalizing parlours would be too much hassle.

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I believe a major reasons why parlous are illegal is that the authorities may think that legalizing parlours would be too much hassle.

We Brits still have many hang-ups about sex and debating prostitution is a place many MPs really don't want to venture. Hands up you're for decriminalization and you have the anti-prostitution brigade condeming any male as contributing to the abuse of women and all the bumph about living in a patriarchal society ... . Female MPs are another kettle of fish and if you take into account we are often having sex with men who have a wife, children, mortgage then very few dare put their head above the parapet and speak in favour of decriminalization as you are in effect condoning adultery and the 'men having their cake and eating it'.

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This thread has raised interesting questions about the issues which would arise if parlous were made illegal. If a government considered making parlous legal, there would be many things to consider; Who would be responsible for issuing licences? How would applying the process of applying for a licence be carried out? If an application for a licence was turned down, should there be a way of appealing against the decision? Should there be limits as how many WGs would be allowed to work in parlous and what would this limit be? Should there be limits how many parlours can be established in a given area and what would this limit be? Would plans to legalize parlours face a lot of opposition? Would there be restrictions as to where parlours could be placed? For instance, would parlous not be allowed in residential areas? I believe a major reasons why parlous are illegal is that the authorities may think that legalizing parlours would be too much hassle.

If brothels/parlours were ever legalised in the UK I don't think that it would be difficult to regulate them. The British authorities love regulating things.

I imagine that the local licensing authorities would deal with them in the same way that they currently licence pubs, amusement centres, dog kennels, taxis, mini-cabs, street-traders etc etc.

Why shouldn't an operator have the right of appeal if a licence is refused ? I don't see a problem with that.

It would be quite easy to impose conditions in the permit: no under-18's allowed in the premises, maximum number of girls working at any time, hours of opening etc

There would bound to be objections to the siting of brothels. I wouldn't want a brothel next door to me. I also wouldn't want a pub, chip-shop, scrap-yard etc next to me. This can all be dealt with by planning laws, with perhaps a proviso that 2 ladies working together (for themselves and not others) in residential premises don't require planning consent. That may be controversial to some.

I don't think any of this would be too much hassle for the licensing authority especially when they can charge for an Operator's Licence and Premises Licence. Currently the cost of an Operator's Licence for a small casino is over £28,000 (and more for a larger casino). That's a lot of money but I doubt that an operator granted a licence to run a large brothel in a prime location would have a problem paying a few thousand a year.

To be honest though, I can't see it happening for many years (if ever). It's far too controversial for the government and there's no votes in it. The "Paying the Price" Consultation Paper produced the government's co-ordinated prostitution strategy in 2005. One of the main recommendations was the legalisation of mini-brothels for safety purposes. The recommendation was brushed aside by Tony Blair as being too controversial; and the next piece of legislation regarding brothels introduced Closure Orders (section 21 Policing and Crime Act 2009).

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If brothels/parlours were ever legalised in the UK I don't think that it would be difficult to regulate them. The British authorities love regulating things.

It would be quite easy to impose conditions in the permit: no under-18's allowed in the premises, maximum number of girls working at any time, hours of opening etc

I don't think any of this would be too much hassle for the licensing authority especially when they can charge for an Operator's Licence and Premises Licence. Currently the cost of an Operator's Licence for a small casino is over £28,000 (and more for a larger casino). That's a lot of money but I doubt that an operator granted a licence to run a large brothel in a prime location would have a problem paying a few thousand a year.

I can feel the corruption already - backhanders to councillors on committees, massage with happy endings - all in the hope of being granted a licence, not to mention being open to a bit of blackmail too. And as for regulating what goes on inside them - well I've seen firsthand how regulations are blatently flouted in casinos, restaurants and public houses and the fact that the government and local councils will have a hand in regulating brothels doesn't exactly fill me with hope.

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