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Kelt

Lest you think Americans are twitchy, check this out.

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This is a response that a punter made in a thread on a mainly American site. There was a sting operation setup in a King of Prussia (KoP), Pennsylvania hotel. This response was to one of the other board members getting nailed in that sting and posting to that effect to warn the board members. Get a listen as to what one of the Mongers over here does to try to stay out of Uncle LEO's sights.

When going to see a new provider/agency, I show up like an hour early to the hotel.

I do a few laps of the parking lot looking for Crown Vics, panel vans, SUVs, the standard issue unmarked government vehicles, especially municipal tags. Note if there are any other people sitting in cars watching the front door of the hotel, if so leave now, call and cancel the appointment once you are a few miles away then post a warning on BestGFE.

Otherwise park near a fire exit door and watch for a little bit. Keep a few old hotel key cards in your car, and take one with you. If the hotel has a bar or a lobby area with a public access internet terminal, go in and scope the place out for the rest of the hour, grab a free USA Today and plop down in a chair, and make a fake call to a friend who you are waiting on to meet you there. Watch the people coming and going, especially going.

When you call to get the room number, do it from the public restroom on the lobby floor. This way you are not walking into the hotel right after you call to let any potential LE know who you are and what car is yours.

If the hotel is not a high rise, I will take the stairs to the floor, this way when you get to the floor, it looks like I am coming back to my room, with the key card in hand that I mentioned before. Walk the entire floor, look for anything that looks odd, open doors, etc. Walk the whole way to the other stairwell and open the doors, you have just now confirmed that your quick exit routes are not being watch by LE.

Walk back to the door and knock.

Walk into a hotel room only say "Hello". If there is a connecting door to another room make sure the deadbolt on the connecting door is locked. I do not need an officer or worst a big ass boyfriend coming through that door to rob me.

Then just lean in and kiss, take her by the hand to the bed and lay down with her without saying a word. If you do speak only ask how she is doing, nothing related to why you are there.

Have her ask you for the donation, if it is her first time seeing you. I normally do not even mention or show the donation with a new provider until she asks for it or we have gotten undressed. Most of the time I give it to them at the end of the date. Here is why, if she is a cop she will not kiss or get undressed or ask for the donation, she needs you to provide the action to go with the criminal intent, otherwise it is conspiracy to commit the crime not the actual crime.

If she starts asking sexual questions right away, turn and walk out. If she is a provider, she knows why you are there and will be fine going to the bed without a word spoken. If she is a decoy and is wearing a wire there is no verbal evidence. If she is not wearing a wire it is your word against her's, you are a suspect, she is a cop, who will a judge believe.

If you have said nothing, either way there is no evidence other than you being there. Yes you can still be fined or arrested, but you have a better chance of winning in court if you say nothing and a bust goes down. A good lawyer should be able to beat the charge for you or at least plead it down to something less noticeable.

Now if you get a bad vibe, and said nothing, and showed no money. Just turn and leave, use the stairs next to where you parked and get out of dodge.

If you get detained in the room, or stopped while trying to leave follow these rules. 1) Keep your mouth shut and say nothing; 2) When you do speak only say one thing, "I would like to contact my lawyer before speaking with you"; 3) Do not say another word until your lawyer is present. Do not make their job easier.

If it was not a bust, once you are done, leave the hotel via the stairs not he elevator, not need to alert the desk staff of folks coming and going by the hour. Now what I do is this, when I hit he lobby, I go back to the public restroom and hit a stall and read the newspaper I picked up earlier for 10 minutes. Here is why, some agencies (like the now busted Diamond Escorts) had the girls write down car makes, models and license plate numbers. Most providers will look out the window for a few minutes and then if they do not see a car leaving give up or her next date will be there and will pull her away from the window.

Make your way to the exit by the stairs and leave, if you can via an exit that can not be seen from the provider's room.

Now to address if you actually get busted.

As for the cash they confiscated, it is evidence, say good bye to it. A $400 fine sounds about right, considering the fine was $300 back in the early 1990's the last and only time I got one. My lawyer is great, he got me off and it only cost me $1,500 for his fee, but a clean record is worth $1,200 to me, he saved e the $300 fine.

I would recommend establishing a relationship with a lawyer ahead of time and carry his number with you everywhere you go. Get a good lawyer, with correct background, and be upfront with him as to why you are contacting him and asking for his number, PRIOR to going out hobbying.

The lawyer I use for this is a friend of mine (don't ask for his name or number I will not give it out), he is an ex-county district attorney, and represent the local FOP lodge and is well connected and friends of a lot of the judges in the area. He is not cheap, but other then me actually committing a Federal crime or a felony, he should be able to get me off most things I could be charged with. I also give him a lot of non-criminal work, that is mostly why I use him but he is good at the criminal stuff too.

I hope you all find this information useful.

Guys play safe and take the time to check thing out before you walk into them! It is always advised to let the big head make the decisions.

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God I hope the US make this hobby legal so that we can stop being so paranoid about it. I've yet to go with an actual WG yet due to the above (though I did manage to research one and have a appt tomorrow to pop my cherry!), instead hitting up the rub and tugs that are so prevalent over here. Reading this type of stuff would put me ill at ease in a hotel setting with a new provider.

Kelt

(This post was to go in the above one, but I hit the submit button when I walked away from the computer to get coffee. Didn't know about the 5 minute edit software lockout.)

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This is a response that a punter made in a thread on a mainly American site. There was a sting operation setup in a King of Prussia (KoP), Pennsylvania hotel. This response was to one of the other board members getting nailed in that sting and posting to that effect to warn the board members. Get a listen as to what one of the Mongers over here does to try to stay out of Uncle LEO's sights.
That's why we call it The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.;)

(you can't pay for it and you need big cajonies to even go looking for it)

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Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

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Thanks God we don't live in America!

It really is one of the worst places in the world for prostitution.

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Thanks for this Kelt. It's certainly stiffened my resolve to never try a punt on my business trips to the East Coast.

I'm really looking forward to my nice, safe, legal punt next Friday :D.

Why not visit us for a vacation ?

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Thanks God we don't live in America!

It really is one of the worst places in the world for prostitution.

Agreed it's not as 'liberated' as other places in world, but as many members I'm sure will testify there are some pleasant, even amazing experiences to be had. I can speak from personal experience of several cities/states. As with all punting, it's a combination of luck and research - and probably right locale. Have had good experiences in majority of major cities (though DC the worst), both incall and outcall, and never once feared 'sting'. Though never cruised Sunset like Mr Grant - love risk, but that's a little too much for my taste. One thing always been curious about is how US is self-proclaimed home of free enterprise, yet this aspect sucks. That Protestant/Puritan ethic sure runs deep.

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Having read that story ,in comparison London is a punting paradise..yes you still get parlours being hit by the feds but its rare.You are only asking for trouble here if you start trying to pick up girls of the street etc

Last yr I was in toronto for the first time and was looking for wg's but didnt have the balls to book one since I wasnt sure what the laws were like and having family over there it would of been too embarrassing if they had to bail me out from being caught.

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Yes, the UK seems a hell of a lot easier - that guy's routine seemed like something out of the Bourne films!

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Having read that story ,in comparison London is a punting paradise..yes you still get parlours being hit by the feds but its rare.You are only asking for trouble here if you start trying to pick up girls of the street etc

Last yr I was in toronto for the first time and was looking for wg's but didnt have the balls to book one since I wasnt sure what the laws were like and having family over there it would of been too embarrassing if they had to bail me out from being caught.

Toronto is located slightly north of the US/CAN border.:D

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Toronto is located slightly north of the US/CAN border.:D

lol I know that but similar-ish laws etc and yes I'm aware that the US and Can are different countries :D

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Yes, the UK seems a hell of a lot easier - that guy's routine seemed like something out of the Bourne films!

Yeah was the guy called Jason? To Imagine you need to do a counter surveillance Op just to go for a punt, amazing, apart from munching doughnuts and busting punters what do the US cops do? :D:)

lol I know that but similar-ish laws etc and yes I'm aware that the US and Can are different countries :D

Canada Is a lot more liberal and sensible about punting than It's southern neighbour, many yankees go north to punt free. ;)

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Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

And while your at it

Send in a whore

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That's why we call it The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.:D

Never confuse freedom with democracy, they are not the same thing.

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Thanks for this Kelt. It's certainly stiffened my resolve to never try a punt on my business trips to the East Coast.

I'm really looking forward to my nice, safe, legal punt next Friday :D.

Why not visit us for a vacation ?

Anyone remember 4thand10? He used to visit UK from LA for 10 days at a time for a punting-fest, he found our scene so much better.

Incidentally, that is one of the neatest nicks I have seen. In American Football, when the situation is 4th and 10 (i.e. your side's 4th down and you still have 10 yards to go to get an other 1st down), you punt!

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The Yanks' peculiar puritanism extends to drinking too, though not to weapons:

In New Hampshire I was once refused a brandy to drink with an after-dinner coffee on the group that I still had the dregs of wine in a glass 'And you aren't allowed more than one drink at once under state law'

In Utah I had a beer with dinner and was told they couldn't include it on the bill, instead I had to pay up front. 'Why, just the beer,' I asked, 'If you think I 'm going to do a runner you have me to pay for the whole meal, surely?' 'State law, sir,' came the reply 'No credit allowed for alcohol'.

Another time, stuck for a weekend in a nowhere hotel in the midwest, bored to stupefaction, I attended an auction of secondhand firearms, taking place in the ballroom. I could have bought enough to equip a small army.

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lol I know that but similar-ish laws etc and yes I'm aware that the US and Can are different countries :D
I've got a Canadian son-in-law who can entertain you over an entire bottle of gin with his detailed list of DIFFERENCES between the US and Canada. Number one, Americans don't know how to say 'eh' properly.

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Anyone remember 4thand10? He used to visit UK from LA for 10 days at a time for a punting-fest, he found our scene so much better.

Incidentally, that is one of the neatest nicks I have seen. In American Football, when the situation is 4th and 10 (i.e. your side's 4th down and you still have 10 yards to go to get an other 1st down), you punt!

Actually, having failed to achieve a first down or get within a yard or two of one, you punt to turn the ball over to the opposing side, as far down field (and away from your own goal line) as you can, somewhat similar to rugby league but after four 'downs' rather than six. It is an expression of failure rather than success. But '4th (down) and 10 (yards) to go' definitely is time to punt unless your are very far ahead in the game or very far behind.

You are 'spot on' in your qualitative punting comparison between the two countries, though. As a Yank who has lived here for centuries, I can't kick but I sure love to punt!:D

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Never confuse freedom with democracy, they are not the same thing.
I was trying to be funny, apparently unsuccessfully. Another oft misused expression is 'win some, lose some'.:D

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I've got a Canadian son-in-law who can entertain you over an entire bottle of gin with his detailed list of DIFFERENCES between the US and Canada. Number one, Americans don't know how to say 'eh' properly.

my cousins over in Canada also felt the need to remind me constantly that they had no connection whatsoever with the US..apart from a shared border of course :D

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Anyone remember 4thand10? He used to visit UK from LA for 10 days at a time for a punting-fest, he found our scene so much better.

Incidentally, that is one of the neatest nicks I have seen. In American Football, when the situation is 4th and 10 (i.e. your side's 4th down and you still have 10 yards to go to get an other 1st down), you punt!

I remember 4thand10 well, once I gave him a lift from Stockport to Leeds train station when the West Coast line was not working, nice guy, met him at quite few PN socials along with CSM who I met for a couple of punts and once to go to a gig with, (I bet CSM still remenbers the 'perfect fridge'). I don't know if you or others remember Frede, I got to know him quite well too, another Yank. They both told me of the risks involved in Stateside punting and both kept their punting to over here, 4thy mainly because of his job, Frede because he was married and didn't want to end up divorced.

My punting experience in the US has been limited, my first visit to New York I was approached just off Times Square, but the not very attractive and very overweight lady wanted a fortune. When I went to Vegas I went with a couple of ladies, one I met on the moving walkway into a casino, we got chatting, she told me she was going to work and what she did, so I said do you want come back to my hotel for a hour, attractive and reasonable money. I suppose she felt okay telling me what she did because of my accent and felt it was unlikely I was a cop. The second one was someone I met on the Strip, it was one of those 'glance' things, I 'knew' she was working, she 'knew' I was a punter.

Both ladies were okay, the first one better, but neither were the GFE you can get over here, something that both 4thand10 and Frede mentioned about the differences. I suppose the reason the US police take such an interest in punting is that there is so little serious crime in the States?

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This experience just isn't the norm in many parts of the US. Some US cities are extremely liberal - LA, San Francisco, and obviously Las Vegas have an enormous range and quantity of escorts from the "exclusive" to Craig's list. You'd have to try seriously hard to get busted. A lot of escorts do out-call.

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my cousins over in Canada also felt the need to remind me constantly that they had no connection whatsoever with the US..apart from a shared border of course :D

You should try working with the Canadian military, they really hate being mistaken for septics, especially as at the time I worked with them most of their kit seemed to be second-hand US Army issue.

Alternatively, a lot of US Army didn't actually mind being mistaken for Canadians

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The Yanks' peculiar puritanism extends to drinking too, though not to weapons:

In New Hampshire I was once refused a brandy to drink with an after-dinner coffee on the group that I still had the dregs of wine in a glass 'And you aren't allowed more than one drink at once under state law'

In Utah I had a beer with dinner and was told they couldn't include it on the bill, instead I had to pay up front. 'Why, just the beer,' I asked, 'If you think I 'm going to do a runner you have me to pay for the whole meal, surely?' 'State law, sir,' came the reply 'No credit allowed for alcohol'.

Another time, stuck for a weekend in a nowhere hotel in the midwest, bored to stupefaction, I attended an auction of secondhand firearms, taking place in the ballroom. I could have bought enough to equip a small army.

Very true. You have to forgive us that though, as it's a product of the way the country was founded. They came over for (initially) religious freedom. In that religion, alcohol was looked down upon . Firearms were important for the initial procurement of food. As the country went on, that (the firearms) necessity extended to the protection from hostile Native American tribes, wildlife, and the occasional brigand.

Firearms really became a staple of Americana because of the Battle of Lexington and Concord. British troops were sent to confiscate arms and arrest revolutionaries. The easiest way to pacify a populace is to disarm them.

The main reason why it (the 2nd amendment) was written and ratified was that not to protect your right to hunt, or to shoot targets (competition), but rather to protect your right of revolution. Someone once told me that if a populace is afraid of their government, then you have tyranny. If that government is afraid of the populace, you have liberty.

So far as booze goes, that gets a bit more complex. It's not covered in the Constitution, (at least not originally) so the States have had more leeway in how they administer it. They did pass an amendment banning it (Prohibition, also brought about by the same group that banned prostitution in most states) that only served to strengthen organized crime in the US. That would be the reason why they repealed that stinker of a law 10 or so years later.

Like I always have stated, I'm Libertarian in belief. The less government dictates, the better, be it booze, prostitution, or even firearms. Freedom is freedom, best not to try to categorize it.

Any rate, just a bit of explanation. Cheers

Kelt

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Like I always have stated, I'm Libertarian in belief. The less government dictates, the better, be it booze, prostitution, or even firearms. Freedom is freedom, best not to try to categorize it.

My idea of freedom is the exact opposite. There is something very controlling about prostitution and alcohol. Paranoia abounds with the obsessive attitude towards firearms. Draconian laws in the guise of the Patriot Act, passed as a result of 9-11 erodes true freedom even further.

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