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oldpunk

Need To Unburden..

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Not sure how relevant this is to the forum, so mods feel free to move it but I needed somewhere to post my feelings today and this seemed a better place than any.

I found out today that a girl I knew has killed herself. I guess she was a WG but not really as people on here would categorise. I will try and explain. I met H outside a shop in my town, it was late at night and although it wasn’t the red light district, I got that vibe from her that she may be working. She was waiting for a taxi and we struck up a conversation. She seemed smart and funny but obviously was in need of a little looking after – i knew she wasn’t on drugs but probably had drink issue. I offered her a lift home and she accepted saying I seemed nice, safe and friendly. I took her home to her house which again showed the signs of neglect. We sat and chatted for a while and she showed me pictures of her small daughter who she said lived with her Grandparents during the week and H had access visits every weekend. I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers.

Over the next 2 months, I visited her on half a dozen occasions and we became real friends, with her giving me a small taste of herself in exchange for me helping her with money. We never went any further than needed. I did once say to her that one day I hoped we could have sex and she agreed, saying she’d would like that eventually. On a sadder note, i could see her life for all its flaws – one day I picked her up to take her to the shops and she had a black eye given to her by her child’s father. I asked her why she persisted with him, she said she didn’t know. I never ever pushed her to do anything she didn’t want to and she said she felt so comfortable with me, trusted me and wanted to keep seeing me.

Christmas came and i popped in with a small gift for her daughter, she absolutely broke her heart crying saying no one had ever been that kind her before. The next time we met she asked if we could go out for a meal so that our sexual encounter would seem more like a real relationship, I agreed. However, the week of the arranged meal, I had had a bad week with Mrs Oldpunk and was due to go overseas with my job. The day before Iwas to meet her, I cancelled with a feeble excuse. I never heard from her again as I went away for 6 months. On my return in late 2009, I had lost her number but always thought fondly of her. Yesterday I passed her road and considered dropping in, instead I passed by but today tried to track her down on-line. No facebook account but a quick Google of her name brought up the shocking newspaper report of her apparent suicide a month after I cancelled our meal date.

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more, but to jump under a train at 22 years old was just a dreadful waste. Sorry if this has been rambling but today has kind of taken me off guard and I don’t have anyone else to unburden on.

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Simply, It's not your fault.

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I do know that it wasn't my fault, but I just wished i could have helped her more. She was so sweet inspite of all her problems.

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Not sure how relevant this is to the forum, so mods feel free to move it but I needed somewhere to post my feelings today and this seemed a better place than any.

I found out today that a girl I knew has killed herself. I guess she was a WG but not really as people on here would categorise. I will try and explain. I met H outside a shop in my town, it was late at night and although it wasn’t the red light district, I got that vibe from her that she may be working. She was waiting for a taxi and we struck up a conversation. She seemed smart and funny but obviously was in need of a little looking after – i knew she wasn’t on drugs but probably had drink issue. I offered her a lift home and she accepted saying I seemed nice, safe and friendly. I took her home to her house which again showed the signs of neglect. We sat and chatted for a while and she showed me pictures of her small daughter who she said lived with her Grandparents during the week and H had access visits every weekend. I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers.

Over the next 2 months, I visited her on half a dozen occasions and we became real friends, with her giving me a small taste of herself in exchange for me helping her with money. We never went any further than needed. I did once say to her that one day I hoped we could have sex and she agreed, saying she’d would like that eventually. On a sadder note, i could see her life for all its flaws – one day I picked her up to take her to the shops and she had a black eye given to her by her child’s father. I asked her why she persisted with him, she said she didn’t know. I never ever pushed her to do anything she didn’t want to and she said she felt so comfortable with me, trusted me and wanted to keep seeing me.

Christmas came and i popped in with a small gift for her daughter, she absolutely broke her heart crying saying no one had ever been that kind her before. The next time we met she asked if we could go out for a meal so that our sexual encounter would seem more like a real relationship, I agreed. However, the week of the arranged meal, I had had a bad week with Mrs Oldpunk and was due to go overseas with my job. The day before Iwas to meet her, I cancelled with a feeble excuse. I never heard from her again as I went away for 6 months. On my return in late 2009, I had lost her number but always thought fondly of her. Yesterday I passed her road and considered dropping in, instead I passed by but today tried to track her down on-line. No facebook account but a quick Google of her name brought up the shocking newspaper report of her apparent suicide a month after I cancelled our meal date.

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more, but to jump under a train at 22 years old was just a dreadful waste. Sorry if this has been rambling but today has kind of taken me off guard and I don’t have anyone else to unburden on.

What stands out in your story is that you are a very decent person.

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What stands out in your story is that you are a very decent person.

Seconded!

I feel for you and I know you are thinking what if I never cancelled...what if I never went away, sad truth is it probably would have happened anyway, but least whatever hell that poor girl was going through she met some kindness towards the end.

S x

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What stands out in your story is that you are a very decent person.

You we obviously reading another story to me. I read he found some one vulnerable and exploited the situation.

I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more,

I do know that it wasn't my fault, but I just wished i could have helped her more

You mean as opposed to helping yourself.

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Gotta agree with Lou here, I don't think you were the "real friend" you have in your memory as being.

It would be rude of me to analyse why, but I start with your ending things with a "feeble excuse".

This is an important tale for any blokes 'courting' such vulnerable ladies, and starting to 'befriend' them for sexual purposes.

Where does the responsibility end, especially if they look to you as some kind of light refreshment in their dark lives.

If you take none, you can't complain if the reality of their life ever does come to interrupt yours.

Edited by Lilly B

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Unfortunately in life people will only take help if they believe they need it. :huh:

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Unfortunately in life people will only take help if they believe they need it. :huh:

I dont follow the relevance of that statement.

As tragic as the story is, I dont see a place for it here.

Lou4fun

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Suicide is a personal thing and none of the living can know the real reasons. So do not blame yourelf.

I think it is a tragic tale and I wish to see something more than mutual exploitation. I think that it is also a reminder of why we keep emotional distances in this, the oldest profession

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You we obviously reading another story to me. I read he found some one vulnerable and exploited the situation.

I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more,

I do know that it wasn't my fault, but I just wished i could have helped her more

You mean as opposed to helping yourself.

I think that is a harsh response, Lou. I doubt anyone would unburden themselves to this effect who had simply wished to exploit a vulnerable woman. Maybe he feels he did, though - which would also be a harsh judgment, imo. My sympathies to the OP. I think this a perfectly valid thread, too.

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I think that is a harsh response, Lou. I doubt anyone would unburden themselves to this effect who had simply wished to exploit a vulnerable woman. Maybe he feels he did, though - which would also be a harsh judgment, imo. My sympathies to the OP. I think this a perfectly valid thread, too.

Harsh response............ sympathies to the poor OP. Really !!!!!!

My sympathy goes to the poor girls parents and daughter. To the people who loved her not to a guy that used her and now feels bad. In my eyes he is bad.

How this guy feel now does not excuse how he exploited this vulnerable woman. His agenda was sexual gratification and used her desperate situation to his own ends.

If you see it another way you need to look harder at his post.

How is this thread valid. Street prostitution is off topic, we dont have a suicide forum. It would not be out of place in warnings though under predators of the vulnerable.

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You we obviously reading another story to me. I read he found some one vulnerable and exploited the situation.

I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more,

I do know that it wasn't my fault, but I just wished i could have helped her more

You mean as opposed to helping yourself.

I see where you are coming from--but I still prefer my take on it.

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This is a brave posting by OP.The title gives away his "burden" which is guilt.

OP feels guilty that in some way he has contributed to this girls death. Posts on site hoping to unload his involvement and looks for other lowlife punters to support him with "it's not your fault " comments.

I have to agree with Lou here. This girl was let down by everyone who passed through her life including OP

If you were "friends "wouldn't you let a friend know you were going away for 6 months ?

What about sending a postcard?

Lou has it right the girl was taken advantage of.Why not on first night give her a lift home and drop her at her house, as the good guy would do ? Why offer her money to encourage her along the road to prostitution.

i read the same story as Lou here and I'm afraid OP you will have to live with it-but its nothing that 2 hours in a hotel room with a dominatrix can't put right.

Good Luck .

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I see where you are coming from--but I still prefer my take on it.

What stands out in your story is that you are a very decent person.

Of course you do, because its easier to deal with.

If the OP told the story and it did not end with her killing herself because she felt she had nothing to live for and no one to turn to and no one to trust no hope.

If he were just to mention

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more,

I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers

Would you still be patting him on the back for being a very decent person

let me run it by you again

I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift

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You we obviously reading another story to me. I read he found some one vulnerable and exploited the situation.

I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more,

I do know that it wasn't my fault, but I just wished i could have helped her more

You mean as opposed to helping yourself.

Whilst I think the OP was rather misguided, there are a lot of assumptions people are making about the situation. Suicide is a very complex issue - I can bear testimony to that having known several people who have attempted it and one who did commit suicide. Whilst the OP let her down and disappeared for six months, it's just pure speculation to suggest that the girl killed herself directly because of him or his actions.

She could have had issues on a whole multitude of levels - mental health/depression, alcoholism, domestic violence etc. There's no way of telling. However, rather than think he was an evil predator, my take is that he shouldn't have got involved in that sort of way. Instead, he should have tried to direct her to professionals who could help such as a womens refuge, social services etc.

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You we obviously reading another story to me. I read he found some one vulnerable and exploited the situation.

I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more,

I do know that it wasn't my fault, but I just wished i could have helped her more

You mean as opposed to helping yourself.

Seconded Lou. I find the idea of this disturbed and vunerable young girl being cajoled into stripping off in payment for this guys "pity" one of the saddest visions of abuse that it almost brings tears to my eyes.

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Whilst I think the OP was rather misguided, there are a lot of assumptions people are making about the situation. Suicide is a very complex issue - I can bear testimony to that having known several people who have attempted it and one who did commit suicide. Whilst the OP let her down and disappeared for six months, it's just pure speculation to suggest that the girl killed herself directly because of him or his actions.

She could have had issues on a whole multitude of levels - mental health/depression, alcoholism, domestic violence etc. There's no way of telling. However, rather than think he was an evil predator, my take is that he shouldn't have got involved in that sort of way. Instead, he should have tried to direct her to professionals who could help such as a womens refuge, social services etc.

No one is suggesting he alone was responsible.

The point is he did get involved the way he did, which is what makes me think of him as the evil predator.

To me it is how he behaved, not how he feels about how he behaved.

Its quite sad IMHO that some are viewing him as a decent chap. It may be an indication of how society fails to recognize whats really going on. He is a sexual predator that repeatedly targeted a vulnerable woman. His "acts of kindness" would not of taken place if he thought there was no sexual reward for him.

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So far I kept out of it but I feel the same way about this story as Lou and Helen. I think the OP is trying to fool himself that is he is basically a good guy meaning well hence the bit about bringing a toy for the kid.

However, he really ought to reflect on his motives if he thinks it is an acceptable action to pick up an obviously vulnerable young woman in distress and exploits her confused and unstable condition into stripping off for his sexual gratification. Despite what he assumed she did not solicit herself but he engineered and steered the situation that way. To me the story is a bit sinister and sickening with his gradual grooming her for full sex. He damn well should feel guilty for adding to her desperation and exploiting her craving for some affection, as he could see she was very unstable/lonely. I am not saying he directly caused her suicide, I presume there many factors leading her to this desperate step. However, he was helping himself to cheap thrills as opposed to helping her.

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Not sure how relevant this is to the forum, so mods feel free to move it but I needed somewhere to post my feelings today and this seemed a better place than any.

I found out today that a girl I knew has killed herself. I guess she was a WG but not really as people on here would categorise. I will try and explain. I met H outside a shop in my town, it was late at night and although it wasn’t the red light district, I got that vibe from her that she may be working. She was waiting for a taxi and we struck up a conversation. She seemed smart and funny but obviously was in need of a little looking after – i knew she wasn’t on drugs but probably had drink issue. I offered her a lift home and she accepted saying I seemed nice, safe and friendly. I took her home to her house which again showed the signs of neglect. We sat and chatted for a while and she showed me pictures of her small daughter who she said lived with her Grandparents during the week and H had access visits every weekend. I could tell that she may have done some working in the past and that she was probably prepared to offer me something for the lift and a small amount of money. The subject came up and I politely just asked her to undress while I watched. I didn’t touch her, just looked, grateful as a forty-something man to have this vision of youth naked for me.. I gave her some money and we exchanged phone numbers.

Over the next 2 months, I visited her on half a dozen occasions and we became real friends, with her giving me a small taste of herself in exchange for me helping her with money. We never went any further than needed. I did once say to her that one day I hoped we could have sex and she agreed, saying she’d would like that eventually. On a sadder note, i could see her life for all its flaws – one day I picked her up to take her to the shops and she had a black eye given to her by her child’s father. I asked her why she persisted with him, she said she didn’t know. I never ever pushed her to do anything she didn’t want to and she said she felt so comfortable with me, trusted me and wanted to keep seeing me.

Christmas came and i popped in with a small gift for her daughter, she absolutely broke her heart crying saying no one had ever been that kind her before. The next time we met she asked if we could go out for a meal so that our sexual encounter would seem more like a real relationship, I agreed. However, the week of the arranged meal, I had had a bad week with Mrs Oldpunk and was due to go overseas with my job. The day before Iwas to meet her, I cancelled with a feeble excuse. I never heard from her again as I went away for 6 months. On my return in late 2009, I had lost her number but always thought fondly of her. Yesterday I passed her road and considered dropping in, instead I passed by but today tried to track her down on-line. No facebook account but a quick Google of her name brought up the shocking newspaper report of her apparent suicide a month after I cancelled our meal date.

I know she had a multitude of issues – chronic alcoholism primarily, an abusive relationship and so much more, but to jump under a train at 22 years old was just a dreadful waste. Sorry if this has been rambling but today has kind of taken me off guard and I don’t have anyone else to unburden on.

I find this post upsetting and haven't gone much past the highlighted stuff I have put in bold. Yes looks like she did have issues and you failed to pass the test to help. To ask her to strip and looking to get full sex eventually shows you have some real issues of your own to get over.

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I find myself agreeing with Lou here, although I'm not sure demonizing this Oldpunk is the answer. I doubt breaking off the meeting with the girl would have forestalled her death. It sounds like she was a lost soul in a very dark place, the causes of which are impossible at this point to determine. Besides if he had met with her for this weird meal then sex occasion (which for what it's worth the sheer fact she told you she wanted it to feel like more like "real" relationship sex rather than paid for sex should have set off some pretty major alarm bells) then what was he going to do if she got attached? Leave his wife? Let her down? In either case it's a one-way ticket to an emotional shitstorm.

This situation does raise certain elements that are rarely discussed or examined, but perhaps there is an opportunity to learn lessons rather than assign blame or guilt. It sounds to me that Oldpunk did have some genuine feelings towards the poor girl, but I would imagine from what was said and reading between the lines that what she was really in need of was someone to love her unconditionally. Some of us are lucky to have had experience of that growing up, some later on in life, but nevertheless most people need it. Wether from family, friends or partners. Someone as vulnerable as she sounds she was in all likelihood going to do anything to get as close to an approxamation of that as she could find. Oldpunk, and anyone in a similar situation with someone you have genuine affection for, put your own desires on the backburner and just be a friend.

The reason you felt the need to unburden here is because all of those little gut instincts that something was wrong that were overidden by desire, and ignored. Not completely, or you would have likely just slept with her at the first possible convenience and just moved on and forgotten her. Congratulations you have a conscience. Perhaps that also had something to do with why you didn't go through with sleeping with her? In any case the moral of the story is, be honest with yourself. It might be tempting, but someone who is vulnerable needs protection and support, not to be taken advantage of. The part of our nature that is selfish will be able to rationalize what is in our immediate benefit may not be taking advantage but be carefull. The easiest way to tell is if you were her father, what would your attitude be towards a man your age having the type of relationship with her that you did?

If you mull it over, and consider if anything I have said is at all close to the mark, perhaps in memory to her, you could find out what has happened to her child and offer some sort of support. I apologize if I come across as judgemental.

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I find this very difficult. OP has told a story which can be read in many ways depending on how you want to read it.

He has been a member here for a couple of years and has maybe become used to expecting women to put out in some way in return for cash? Maybe he feels he was doing her a favour giving her some cash in exchange for a strip? Maybe the girl was delighted with this friendship as perhaps her last "friend" insisted on rough anal sex for the same amount of cash. Maybe he was a calculating predator looking to exploit a troubled girl. Maybe she played him - kept taking the £20/£50 whatever the amount promising him sex in the future. We simply don't know the detail and we are the first to jump down the press' throats when they take one sentance out of context as above.

I am not defending OP as I find it odd that you do an act of kindness and then ask for a striptease, but we don't know what conversation led to his request/offer. As he says the subject came up, we can't be totally sure who did the running, but maybe they were both happy with that deal. Who knows.

"I really need £20 and would be happy to give you a strptease" is very different to "if I give you £20 you get your kit off".

A tragic story for the girl to be in that position and for her family

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I find this very difficult. OP has told a story which can be read in many ways depending on how you want to read it.

He has been a member here for a couple of years and has maybe become used to expecting women to put out in some way in return for cash? Maybe he feels he was doing her a favour giving her some cash in exchange for a strip? Maybe the girl was delighted with this friendship as perhaps her last "friend" insisted on rough anal sex for the same amount of cash. Maybe he was a calculating predator looking to exploit a troubled girl. Maybe she played him - kept taking the £20/£50 whatever the amount promising him sex in the future. We simply don't know the detail and we are the first to jump down the press' throats when they take one sentance out of context as above.

I am not defending OP as I find it odd that you do an act of kindness and then ask for a striptease, but we don't know what conversation led to his request/offer. As he says the subject came up, we can't be totally sure who did the running, but maybe they were both happy with that deal. Who knows.

"I really need £20 and would be happy to give you a strptease" is very different to "if I give you £20 you get your kit off".

A tragic story for the girl to be in that position and for her family

Well said. It's important to remember we have only one side of this story and that it's been told by a man who feels guilty. If we had the girl's side, it might either be 'Yes, he pressured me and I needed the money so I had to do it although it made me feel dreadful ' or 'Who? Oh him, yeah, he kept giving me money for bugger all, silly old sod'.

The issue of whether this is an appropriate post for the forum has been discussed between the Mods and therefore I am closing the thread. Anyone who wants to disagree can do so by PM as always.

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