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Jean Valjean

Married Punters - Awkward Thought

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Previous threads (you'll know which ones I mean) got me thinking. For guys like me, married, love their wife but sex once or twice (or never) a year - what if there were no prostitutes, no wgs? What would I do? Try harder with Mme Valjean, become a serial wanker, become a monk? Personally I don't know. I've tried trying harder, but without much success. Wanking is OK but too much and it makes me depressed. And the habit habit is only for those who are seriously dedicated to our Good Lord - or small children. Perhaps there is actually such a thing as happy abstinence – God there's a thought! I find it an uncomfortable thought though because whilst I love having sex with gorgeous women I always, always feel bad about it afterwards (and before) because whilst I tell myself it's a biological need I really, honestly, know that I'm just indulging myself. Of course I could abstain – if I had the balls. It wouldn't turn me into a rapist or philanderer, just someone who'd shown a bit more self-control. I know it isn't that easy - or is it, perhaps? What about other guys?

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Previous threads (you'll know which ones I mean) got me thinking. For guys like me, married, love their wife but sex once or twice (or never) a year - what if there were no prostitutes, no wgs? What would I do? Try harder with Mme Valjean, become a serial wanker, become a monk? Personally I don't know. I've tried trying harder, but without much success. Wanking is OK but too much and it makes me depressed. And the habit habit is only for those who are seriously dedicated to our Good Lord - or small children. Perhaps there is actually such a thing as happy abstinence – God there's a thought! I find it an uncomfortable thought though because whilst I love having sex with gorgeous women I always, always feel bad about it afterwards (and before) because whilst I tell myself it's a biological need I really, honestly, know that I'm just indulging myself. Of course I could abstain – if I had the balls. It wouldn't turn me into a rapist or philanderer, just someone who'd shown a bit more self-control. I know it isn't that easy - or is it, perhaps? What about other guys?

i am in a very similar situation,been married for nearly 30 years,love my wife more than ever,we are closer than ever but don't have sex anymore.the difference is that if i felt 10% of the guilt that you eel pre and post punt i couldn't do it.

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Sex is one thing which is assumed to be morally correct only between Husband and wife. Bible disapproves of sex before marriage and so do each and every religion in this world. All religion, laws and society allow sex between Husband and wife and disapprove sex between anyother 2 persons. In fact it is the only common law in all religions.

On the other hand, prostitution too is oldest profession in this world. Oldest books in the world cite instances of prostitution. I feel that till men start to accept their wives going to other males as normal and a matter of just satisfing sexual desires women are not going to allow men to go to prostitutes openly. Men will have to hid thier visits to prostitutes from thier wives. All of us married men do feel the guilt of going to punter , atleast to some extent , as we still are not ready to accept the vice versa, i.e our wives going to punt too, like us. The day when both husbands and wife accept each others need for sexual desires each other cannot fulfil and accept that both are right in punting if needed , will the awkward feeling go.

Few of the couples into swinging lifestyle have understood this need and so those men may not be feeling this type of awkward feeling and nor would thay need to hide the punts from the wife.

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Sex is one thing which is assumed to be morally correct only between Husband and wife. Bible disapproves of sex before marriage and so do each and every religion in this world. All religion, laws and society allow sex between Husband and wife and disapprove sex between anyother 2 persons. In fact it is the only common law in all religions.

On the other hand, prostitution too is oldest profession in this world. Oldest books in the world cite instances of prostitution.

I take issue with prostitution being the "oldest profession" - that surely has to be soldiering?

The religious verbot on "ladies of the night" comes, I'm sure, from the time before man had worked out that the hitherto thought to be miraculous birth of a child was connected to the moment of lust (?rape) at the back of the cave, forty weeks (?three seasons) earlier. The earliest deity was the Earth Mother (?BBW) who was worshipped by making an offering and then having the priestess. Then, an age later, when the Sky Father took over from the Earth Mother, his priests banned "whoreing after strange gods" (as the AV delightfully, and accurately, calls it) not really because sex was wrong, but because it threatened their income stream and dominance in the tribe.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Edited by Irgendeiner

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Perhaps there is actually such a thing as happy abstinence – God there's a thought! I find it an uncomfortable thought though because whilst I love having sex with gorgeous women I always, always feel bad about it afterwards (and before) because whilst I tell myself it's a biological need I really, honestly, know that I'm just indulging myself.

I am 100% certain that abstinence leads to enlarged prostate which can lead to cancer, removal of which very often leads to impotence or death if its too late.

This is not something which has been looked at by the scientists but it makes sense. Use it or lose it. And a hurried wank does not exercise it. You need to be stimulated by a sexy woman so that the prostate has to make its fluid. Just another service our prostitutes provide, keeping us healthy with cancer free prostates. And do they get any credit for this. Oh no rather have us guys faithful to wives who ensure our early death or impotence by prostate.

So get out there Guys and exercise those prostates! Its good for you and for your body.

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All of us married men do feel the guilt of going to punter , atleast to some extent , as we still are not ready to accept the vice versa, i.e our wives going to punt too, like us.

Speak for yourself - I feel no guilt. Maybe I should, but I don't.

I don't think it has anything to do with the very hypothetical concept of women paying for sex either - women generally don't need to.

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I take issue with prostitution being the "oldest profession" - that surely has to be soldiering?

The religious verbot on "ladies of the night" comes, I'm sure, from the time before man had worked out that the hitherto thought to be miraculous birth of a child was connected to the moment of lust (?rape) at the back of the cave, forty weeks (?three seasons) earlier. The earliest deity was the Earth Mother (?BBW) who was worshipped by making an offering and then having the priestess. Then, an age later, when the Sky Father took over from the Earth Mother, his priests banned "whoreing after strange gods" (as the AV delightfully, and accurately, calls it) not really because sex was wrong, but because it threatened their income stream and dominance in the tribe.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Hmmm. Interesting. I'd never quite thought of it that way. :blink:

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I take issue with prostitution being the "oldest profession" - that surely has to be soldiering?

Nope has to be prostitution.

A hundred thousand years ago. Best hunter comes back to cave with fresh kill. A tasty minx with a full bush grunts "swap you some meat for best hairy pussy great hunter"

A million years ago, "here big chief check out this big bum with wet pussy" (if I get pregnant with your child you will protect me)

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Prostitution isn't a profession and never has been. It's a trade.

Classically there were only 3 main professions: medicine, law and religion. The list now includes architects, accountants, vets etc.

A profession requires training, associations, regulation, ethics.

A profession arises when any trade or occupation transforms itself through "the development of formal qualifications based upon education, apprenticeship, and examinations, the emergence of regulatory bodies with powers to admit and discipline members, and some degree of monopoly rights".

No offence to the good ladies of this board but I cannot see that prostitution is a profession.

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Like clarkkent and others I too am very close to my wife of many years, and never thought I would have need of WGs. However, after many years of a sexual marriage, sex came to an end shortly after her manopause. After over a decade of frustration, I decided that I wasn't getting any younger, that contemporaries were dying, getting alzheimers, going into care homes etc and that I needed to hold a naked woman again. So, after a lot of 'research' on PN, I finally 'took the plunge' with Jan of Whitchurch. Great! But I remember her words in a post-coital chat: 'Don't feel guilty about it'.

I thought I would, but I didn't (surprising for me!). After visits to a number of WGs (again all carefully selected) I have had some of the best sexual experiences of my life.

(Thanks to ALL you WGs! You provide for a human need.)

I believe that some sects of some religions allow 'tepmporary' wives (for an afternoon,say). I have a(deeply religious and very attractive) friend who while working in Israel some years ago, was approached by some gentlemen while walking through the park with a view to becoming a 'temporary wife' because they were forbidden to have sex with their wives during menstruation. Needless to say, they got nowhere with her!!

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A hundred thousand years ago. Best hunter comes back to cave with fresh kill. A tasty minx with a full bush grunts "swap you some meat for best hairy pussy great hunter"

Haha, you've been watcing Armstrong & Miller!

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Sex is one thing which is assumed to be morally correct only between Husband and wife. Bible disapproves of sex before marriage and so do each and every religion in this world. All religion, laws and society allow sex between Husband and wife and disapprove sex between anyother 2 persons. In fact it is the only common law in all religions.

On the other hand, prostitution too is oldest profession in this world. Oldest books in the world cite instances of prostitution. I feel that till men start to accept their wives going to other males as normal and a matter of just satisfing sexual desires women are not going to allow men to go to prostitutes openly. Men will have to hid thier visits to prostitutes from thier wives. All of us married men do feel the guilt of going to punter , atleast to some extent , as we still are not ready to accept the vice versa, i.e our wives going to punt too, like us. The day when both husbands and wife accept each others need for sexual desires each other cannot fulfil and accept that both are right in punting if needed , will the awkward feeling go.

Few of the couples into swinging lifestyle have understood this need and so those men may not be feeling this type of awkward feeling and nor would thay need to hide the punts from the wife.

Wrong. This applies mainly to those religions that are follow the Judeao - Christian (& for that matter Islamic) traditions. Even in this case, if we were to go back far enough; i.e. to the roots of those books of the Old Testament that predate Exodus, we would find that both they and the morality they espouse are very firmly based upon Sumerian beliefs (which peresisted for some considerable time in the fertile crescent).

Now, the thing is that, in many respects, these weren't all that pleasant. Humanity was basically seen as being slaves to the, rather unpleasant & cruel, Gods; & when you died you would go to a place where you'd live in the dark & eat mud. One of the duties incumbent on all fathers, & their daughters, was that prior to marriage it was necessary that the girl should be taken/take herself to the temple of Astarte (a Goddess) & there offer herself as a prostitute, with the proceeds being donated to the temple. In fact, the temples of this Goddess maintained sacred prostitutes on their staff, the visiting of whom was seen as being a religious duty, in hommage to the divinity.

This practice is attested in places such as Lebanon, Syria &, modern day, Israel right the way through from the dawn of civilisation to, at least, the early Iron Age.

If we now move to Egypt; from whence we acquired the notions of both caring Gods & the notion that we are morally responsible in the next world for our actions in this world, there is ample textual evidence that premarital sex was seen as being perfectly normal (love letters & poetry are our main sources); although adultery by those who were married was seen as being a great betrayal. Again, there were religious rites; such as festivals of Hathor & Bastet, in which orgyistic sex was seen as being an intrinsic part of worship & would be for over 3,000 years.

If we look into early Christianity we find that, originally, the attitudes to premarital sex were very simmilar to those of the Romans & it was only with the arrival of St. Augustine on the scene that sex, & everything associated with it, somehow became shameful (Augustine originated the term "pudenda", "shameful parts" for the genitalia). However, this didn't stop the church from being willing to cash in on sex; medieval monasteries & abbeys frequently owned the local brothels, with the monks & clergy beinag able to indulge for free.

Again, extra/premarital sex was seen as being perfectly normal amongst those who were engaged; both amongst the upper & lower classes, right the way from through to late Victorian times; it was only really a hang up amongst the middle classes & those of a more puritanical religious bent).

Moving away from Western Europe & the Middle East, one can point to the native religions of the Polynesians, in which sex played such a central role that it contributed greatly to the causes of the famous mutiny on the Bounty (sex was readily available with the Tahitian girls, in exchange for one iron nail &, needless to say, Christian & the crew were reluctant to head back to "civilisation").

Finally, there is ample evidence, from temple reliefs, documents, etc., that sex had a major role in Hindu bleiefs (certainly in earlier times).

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Previous threads (you'll know which ones I mean) got me thinking. For guys like me, married, love their wife but sex once or twice (or never) a year - what if there were no prostitutes, no wgs? What would I do? Try harder with Mme Valjean, become a serial wanker, become a monk? Personally I don't know. I've tried trying harder, but without much success. Wanking is OK but too much and it makes me depressed. And the habit habit is only for those who are seriously dedicated to our Good Lord - or small children. Perhaps there is actually such a thing as happy abstinence – God there's a thought! I find it an uncomfortable thought though because whilst I love having sex with gorgeous women I always, always feel bad about it afterwards (and before) because whilst I tell myself it's a biological need I really, honestly, know that I'm just indulging myself. Of course I could abstain – if I had the balls. It wouldn't turn me into a rapist or philanderer, just someone who'd shown a bit more self-control. I know it isn't that easy - or is it, perhaps? What about other guys?

Thats an odd comment and if you feel like that then perhaps you should give it up. I have never felt guilt ,other than a pang about spending the money. Yes, it is an indulgence.

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A profession requires training, associations, regulation, ethics.

A profession arises when any trade or occupation transforms itself through "the development of formal qualifications based upon education, apprenticeship, and examinations, the emergence of regulatory bodies with powers to admit and discipline members, and some degree of monopoly rights".

Training is most certainly carried out. Training to do deep throat, anal, squirting, PC muscle control, hand jobs etc

Associations Punternet, SWAAF(?) etc

Regulation the government does regulate it, Parlours have rules

Ethics well where do I start?

I'm sure Punternet members would be happy to issue formal qualifications to add to the field reports and offer apprenticeships and examinations (of a more intimate kind than normal of course)

Plus its is so often referred to as a Profession, many more times than as a trade.

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Nope has to be prostitution.

Agreed. See Levitt and Dubner ("Superfreakonomics"), who report on an event in a lab colony of capuchin monkeys. Original article from NY Times. If capuchins, then why not pre-humans? It seems quite likely that prostitution arose before we were fully human.

Soldiering, in the sense of an organised group of individuals whose prime social function is to fight other groups on command, is unlikely to have arisen quite so early. In the beginning, there would have been ad hoc aggressive/defensive activities by hunters (who, pro tempore, could be categorised as "warriors"), but this would not suffice to make them soldiers. Admittedly, as soon as you add organisation and a commander, you get soldiers, but that's somewhat more advanced. Prostitution, as a relatively simple social interaction, will doubtless have arrived sooner.

Prostitution isn't a profession and never has been. It's a trade.

Somewhat misplaced pedantry. There are several accepted dictionary definitions of the word profession, one of which is simply "occupation or career". Your lecturette (which appears, from its wording, to derive from a wikipedia article which itself is noted as under dispute on a number of grounds) more properly relates to a sub-definition "learned professions".

The ongoing attempt, by occupations which operate through "the development of formal qualifications based upon education, apprenticeship, and examinations, the emergence of regulatory bodies with powers to admit and discipline members, and some degree of monopoly rights", to arrogate to themeselves exclusive rights to the word "profession" should be seen as nothing more than a turf war.

The OED is quite happy to cite "the oldest profession" as meaning prostitution. That meaning has been current long before the emergence of examinations and regulatory bodies... Don't forget, in ancient times medicine was no more than a trade...

Edited by Illustrious

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Thats an odd comment and if you feel like that then perhaps you should give it up. I have never felt guilt ,other than a pang about spending the money. Yes, it is an indulgence.

I feel no guilt about punting or spending my money on punting. In this life, u must have an indulgence, for some it's drugs, diamonds, fast cars, houses, cigarettes, alcohol etc. Even though I will say I dont punt that much, I actually love it.

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My rambling original post rather lost its way before the end (one too many glasses of wine I fear). What I was trying to ask was, what would you no-sex-at-home married punters do if there were no wgs? Abstain, affair, remarry, wank, court your wife all over again?

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Jean, can you put , suicide, on the end of that list ? :angry:

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My rambling original post rather lost its way before the end (one too many glasses of wine I fear). What I was trying to ask was, what would you no-sex-at-home married punters do if there were no wgs? Abstain, affair, remarry, wank, court your wife all over again?

We've got a PC's with infinte porn. When I was younger in a no sex situation I never had such a wonderful thing. You've never had it so good.

Abstain - make your dick stop working?

affair - Too complicted, expensive divorce

remarry - expensive divorce and a wedding

wank - The correct risk free answer

court your wife all over again - If your in a no sex situation you've already tried that. Beg for sex and boost her ego or feel bad about the rejection. Or if your lucky get a duty fuck 10 minutes sometime after Eastenders has finished and before her usual bedtime.

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My rambling original post rather lost its way before the end (one too many glasses of wine I fear). What I was trying to ask was, what would you no-sex-at-home married punters do if there were no wgs? Abstain, affair, remarry, wank, court your wife all over again?

What happens in the real world is clear enough.

What would happen in a completely different hypothetical world (one so different that no WG's existed??).

Who on earth knows?? Presumably the reason for non existence of WG's was everybody was getting enough free sex with gorgeous women... maybe even ones wife... so question would not arise.

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'In the beginning, there would have been ad hoc aggressive/defensive activities by hunters (who, pro tempore, could be categorised as "warriors")'

You've not seen 2001 a Space Odyssey then?

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Speak for yourself - I feel no guilt. Maybe I should, but I don't.

I don't think it has anything to do with the very hypothetical concept of women paying for sex either - women generally don't need to.

Your saying "maybe I should" could mean that you still feel the guilt of not feeling guilt. So that makes it to a slight guilt. Maybe!!

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My rambling original post rather lost its way before the end (one too many glasses of wine I fear). What I was trying to ask was, what would you no-sex-at-home married punters do if there were no wgs? Abstain, affair, remarry, wank, court your wife all over again?

I could:

1) Change my religion to Islam, and marry another 3 girls. This was only option as world had no WG. Is it actually possible?

2) Do not change religion, look for affair. But I doubt any women will like to be in affair with a not so stud male like me. So either look for a older women who is unsatisfied etc. etc. But not really possible.

3) Try to change my wife to a sex maniac, somehow ensure she has huge sex drive. It is really possible option.

4) Abstain: It is not a option, this is what I would be left with if above 3 don't work.

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I never feel guilty about punting but I wouldn't want to be found out. The reason why I don't feel guilt is because I know what I do doesn't affect my feelings for my wife at all so by punting I don't hurt her. Now if my wife was to find out that would make me feel guilty because I know she would feel hurt and I don't like to hurt anyone. I could of course remove the risk of hurting her by not punting, equally I could remove the risk of dying on the roads by never leaving my house. I accept the risk of both though I want neither to happen. I mitigate the risk of both by behaving cautiously and sensibly.

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