wolfie

What Happens If There Is A Raid?

18 posts in this topic

Hello all,

I have been punting for around a year, not to often mind.

But I was with a WG not long ago and had a strange fear of getting caught.She seems to think that the police only raid known places with foreign girls.

I am a single man so no issues with anything there. But I would not like my family know.

So what happens if there is a police raid. Do you get arrested, go to court what happens? what happens to the girl?

Where do I stand with the letter of the law?

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Have a look at this old thread:

If the raid is to arrest the owner/manager for brothel keeping then you'll probably be asked to get dressed and leave quietly. They may ask for your name and address. Just do that. Be careful in case the press are outside. If your car is nearby best walk in the other direction and go and collect it later. If they ask you any questions,don't be very helpful and they won't want your help in the future, eg. to prove that it's a brothel.

If they suspect that the girl(s) are subject to exploitative conduct (ie. the new section 53A offence introduced in April) then chances are you're going to be arrested. You will be taken down the station and have your photos, fingerprints and a DNA mouth-swab taken. So far as I am aware nobody has yet been charged, let alone convicted of the new offence. There have been 3 cautions, all in the early days.

Best advice I can give you is "Do not accept a caution". The CPS are going to be very reluctant to prosecute.

If you punt carefully and sensibly your chances of being caught in a raid are minimal.

What happens to the girl? - Probably nothing. If they suspect her of assisting in the management of a brothel then she may be arrested and questioned. If they think that she is subject to exploitative conduct then they might try and help her. If she's here illegally then they may take her to a Immigration Removal Centre. Alternatively she may do a runner and move to another town or city. It all depends on the purpose of the raid, her legal status and level of vulnerability.

There's lots of useful information in the old threads in this section, especially around March and April when the new law came into force.

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"If you punt carefully and sensibly your chances of being caught in a raid are minimal"

Trust me, it would be just my luck.

Its put me off a bit. (well maybe I will have a good look around first for suspicious vans)

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Oh boy ! that would be really embarassing. Just imagine getting caught with your pants down and media everywhere. Its thoughts like this that make me go limp sometimes during a punt :lol::lol:

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"If you punt carefully and sensibly your chances of being caught in a raid are minimal"

Trust me, it would be just my luck.

Its put me off a bit. (well maybe I will have a good look around first for suspicious vans)

I think that you're worrying too much.

I first joined Punternet in 2004 and since then I've only read about 2 members of the board (punters) being caught up in a raid. Neither of them were arrested or had to give evidence in court.

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Hello all,

I have been punting for around a year, not to often mind.

But I was with a WG not long ago and had a strange fear of getting caught.She seems to think that the police only raid known places with foreign girls.

I am a single man so no issues with anything there. But I would not like my family know.

So what happens if there is a police raid. Do you get arrested, go to court what happens? what happens to the girl?

Where do I stand with the letter of the law?

As others have said you can't be arrested for simply being in a brothel or having sex with a prostitute. The only thing you could theoretically get arrested for would be "paying for the sexual services of a prostitute subjected to force etc." - this would be if you were with a girl who they thought was essentially a sex slave. If that happens, which is remote in the extreme, don't accept a caution if they offer one. They're not supposed to offer cautions unless they have a reasonable chance of conviction if it was taken to court i.e they can prove you were there, paying for sex, and the girl you were with was "forced, threatened, deceived or otherwise coerced" into prostitution. That's a pretty big allegation.

Do me a favour - if you ARE arrested, ask them why you're the only person under arrest for any offence that suggests the girl is a sex slave. Because I can guarantee they won't have arrested anybody for kidnap, false imprisonment, making threats or anything else like that. Ask them what the madam is under arrest for. Somebody has to be exercising the force etc. Preventing her leaving. She was the only person on the premises other than the girl and the clients....so why is it they have evidence she's a sex slave when arresting you....but don't seem to have any when arresting the madam? If you've got a half decent solicitor with you, you shouldn't have to worry about anything once you've dropped that little bomb.

Also you could ask why you've been arrested to aid the prompt and effective investigation of the offence (which they will probably say) when you couldn't possibly know anything. It's a strict liability offence, they'll try to make a big deal of that saying it doesn't matter whether you know, so you should say "well since you haven't arrested me for rape or sexual assault you must think I don't know...and you don't know anything specific about the girl I was with either(I can almost guarantee they won't)so remind me again what you needed me for that necessitated arresting me?"

I'd love to be arrested for this offence. I'm weird like that :-)

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I think that you're worrying too much.

I first joined Punternet in 2004 and since then I've only read about 2 members of the board (punters) being caught up in a raid. Neither of them were arrested or had to give evidence in court.

Rest of punters who got caught have sworn to be off punting and punternet too.

Edited by mumbaicop

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Do not give your name and address. Just get dressed and walk out. The police have no power to require you to give your name and address unless you are the driver of a vehicle (hey, it's parked a long way away isn't it and they do not know that it's yours) or if you are indulging in anti social behaviour. Behaving in a civilised way in a brothel is not anti social.

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Do not give your name and address. Just get dressed and walk out. The police have no power to require you to give your name and address unless you are the driver of a vehicle (hey, it's parked a long way away isn't it and they do not know that it's yours) or if you are indulging in anti social behaviour. Behaving in a civilised way in a brothel is not anti social.

If the police ask for your name etc and you refuse then I seriously doubt that they will let you walk out without giving it.

Under section 24(5)PACE 1984 the police have the power to arrest for the purposes of ascertaining a person's identity.

You give them your address and it will be written down in the pocket-book and that will probably be the end of it.

You refuse and the chances are that you will be arrested, taken down the station and it's photos, fingerprints and DNA time. It may also jeopardise your chances of bail if charged with anything.

I've been a solicitor for many years and I know how it works. The police don't like non-compliant suspects. You make things difficult for them, they make things far more difficult for you. Believe me I've seen it so many times.

Brothel raids tend to involve about 8 to 10 police (including WPCs) and often representatives of other agencies eg. HMRC, DWP and Border Agency. There will be a briefing meeting beforehand at which they discuss various issues including Health & Safety and Human Rights issues. I wouldn't for one moment believe that it's agreed that anyone can walk away with a blanket refusal to provide their name etc. The main point is that they are either instructed to obtain names and addresses, or they're not. If they ask then they're not going to take "No" for an answer.

I wouldn't volunteer the information but if you persist in your objections then chances are you're under arrest. That's the way the police work. It's fairly easy for the police to come up with other grounds..."prompt and effective investigation", and to eliminate you from suspicion of being involved with owning or managing the brothel or paying for the services of a prostitute subjected to force.

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If the police ask for your name etc and you refuse then I seriously doubt that they will let you walk out without giving it.

Under section 24(5)PACE 1984 the police have the power to arrest for the purposes of ascertaining a person's identity.

You give them your address and it will be written down in the pocket-book and that will probably be the end of it.

You refuse and the chances are that you will be arrested, taken down the station and it's photos, fingerprints and DNA time. It may also jeopardise your chances of bail if charged with anything.

I've been a solicitor for many years and I know how it works. The police don't like non-compliant suspects. You make things difficult for them, they make things far more difficult for you. Believe me I've seen it so many times.

Brothel raids tend to involve about 8 to 10 police (including WPCs) and often representatives of other agencies eg. HMRC, DWP and Border Agency. There will be a briefing meeting beforehand at which they discuss various issues including Health & Safety and Human Rights issues. I wouldn't for one moment believe that it's agreed that anyone can walk away with a blanket refusal to provide their name etc. The main point is that they are either instructed to obtain names and addresses, or they're not. If they ask then they're not going to take "No" for an answer.

I wouldn't volunteer the information but if you persist in your objections then chances are you're under arrest. That's the way the police work. It's fairly easy for the police to come up with other grounds..."prompt and effective investigation", and to eliminate you from suspicion of being involved with owning or managing the brothel or paying for the services of a prostitute subjected to force.

Thanks, I have looked up the reference you mention. They are only allowed to arrest you to get your address if you are committing an offence or are about to commit an offence, or if they have reasonable grounds for suspecting that you are or have done so. An arrest in other circumstances would be illegal.

I realise that the police are capable of abusing their powers and messing you up, and that you have practical experience from your profession of what actually happens that most of the rest of us do not have.

Edited by Rockenroll

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Oh boy ! that would be really embarassing. Just imagine getting caught with your pants down and media everywhere. Its thoughts like this that make me go limp sometimes during a punt :lol::lol:

Yes, I suppose it was!

It was in Singapore, some 45 years ago and I was in the shower, afterwards, not even with my pants down, but bollock naked, but for the soap suds!

"Are you a member of Her Majesty's Forces, asked the RMP Sergeant......."

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The much-missed blogger Night Jack (a policeman who had to stop when his cover was blown) said in his Survival Guide for Decent Folk:

Complain First

Make a counter allegation

Never explain to the Police

Admit Nothing

Keep your mouth shut

Claim Suicidal Thoughts

Always always always have a solicitor

Actively complain about every officer and everything they do

Show no respect to the legal system or anybody working in it

Those are actually just his headings, here's the link to the article:

http://nightjack2.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/a-survival-guide-for-decent-folk/

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The much-missed blogger Night Jack (a policeman who had to stop when his cover was blown) said in his Survival Guide for Decent Folk:

Complain First

Make a counter allegation

Never explain to the Police

Admit Nothing

Keep your mouth shut

Claim Suicidal Thoughts

Always always always have a solicitor

Actively complain about every officer and everything they do

Show no respect to the legal system or anybody working in it

Those are actually just his headings, here's the link to the article:

http://nightjack2.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/a-survival-guide-for-decent-folk/

Very useful however the "Suicidal thoughts" one will have them remove any sharp object from your body and clothing including belt, and sometimes underwear as well as place you in a cell where they can watch you more closely.

Generally the police don't like argumentative buggers, and there's a whole host of charges they can throw at you if you do object. Could start with drunk and disordely if you've had a pint two, through to obstructing their work or even resisting arrest.

The best one on that list is to get a solicitor, and not to say too much.

The others are nice suggestions if you are willing to risk more charges, and either having to see the local mental health squad or spend the night under watch in a paper suit. :unsure:

Edited by Strawberry

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Thanks, I have looked up the reference you mention. They are only allowed to arrest you to get your address if you are committing an offence or are about to commit an offence, or if they have reasonable grounds for suspecting that you are or have done so. An arrest in other circumstances would be illegal.

I think that the police definition of 'reasonable grounds' might be a little wider than our own here, especially if you get arsey with them :mellow:

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Well it has not put me off, as ended up seeing a WG the other day. She seems to think that should any raid happen if any money has been exchanged claim its for her to get something nice i.e. treat.If we are caught in the act we was over come with lust between two adults.

Also as she has had a few run ins with the coppers in the past.She seems to think that its punters who have had a bad time or neighbours who have called the cops and claimed under age girls or something. Rightly so if true,the cops should investigate allegations like that. But she said the cops generally want punters to go to places like this rather than pick up off the streets.

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Well it has not put me off, as ended up seeing a WG the other day. She seems to think that should any raid happen if any money has been exchanged claim its for her to get something nice i.e. treat.If we are caught in the act we was over come with lust between two adults.

Also as she has had a few run ins with the coppers in the past.She seems to think that its punters who have had a bad time or neighbours who have called the cops and claimed under age girls or something. Rightly so if true,the cops should investigate allegations like that. But she said the cops generally want punters to go to places like this rather than pick up off the streets.

The exchange of money itself it not illegal - so it doesn't matter if it's "for a nice treat" or not. Prostitution in this country is not illegal unless she is being forced or coerced or you are her pimp, then yes you could get arrested and a criminal record. If she is neither being forced nor trafficked then why would she need to say that?plus then HMRC would want to know how she is supporting herself.

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Well it has not put me off, as ended up seeing a WG the other day. She seems to think that should any raid happen if any money has been exchanged claim its for her to get something nice i.e. treat.If we are caught in the act we was over come with lust between two adults.

Also as she has had a few run ins with the coppers in the past.She seems to think that its punters who have had a bad time or neighbours who have called the cops and claimed under age girls or something. Rightly so if true,the cops should investigate allegations like that. But she said the cops generally want punters to go to places like this rather than pick up off the streets.

Neither of you are doing anything illegal. I must admit that I think that it's a bit sad that both of you are lying there worried that the police are going to knock the door down, rush in and arrest you both.

It's not going to happen. You've got more chance of being killed in a car accident on the way to the punt.

Next time just put it out of your mind, don't worry about it and enjoy yourself.

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Surely the sensible thing to do if you're worried about being caught in a raid is simply not to visit brothels? See indies at theirs or outcalls to a hotel?

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