starman

Here's the news you have been waiting for! - law proposals to be announced tomorrow

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Penalties planned for sleeping with women forced to sell sex

The Home Secretary will make clear that the measure will not affect sole traders or women selling sex of their own free will

The move represents a compromise solution to demands from some senior members of the Government to criminalise the purchase of all sex. Police were concerned about the practicalities of a law banning any payment for sex.

Remember this:

The Finnish model instead of the Swedish one?

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Penalties planned for sleeping with women forced to sell sex

The Home Secretary will make clear that the measure will not affect sole traders or women selling sex of their own free will

The move represents a compromise solution to demands from some senior members of the Government to criminalise the purchase of all sex. Police were concerned about the practicalities of a law banning any payment for sex.

Remember this:

The Finnish model instead of the Swedish one?

Yippeeee Dippeeee Doooo :P:);)

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Yippeeee Dippeeee Doooo :P:);)

which is Danish for?

This comment from the thread about Finland pretty much says it all:

If this law sounds lunatic, it's because it's a compromise. In this way both supporters and opponents of the buying of sex are supposed to be happy. This law did indeed garner support from both camps and was easy to pass. The law is neither very radical nor very effective. Yet it is both an ethical statement of the sort one camp wanted and it keeps prostitution itself legal as the other camp wanted.

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Penalties planned for sleeping with women forced to sell sex

The Home Secretary will make clear that the measure will not affect sole traders or women selling sex of their own free will

The move represents a compromise solution to demands from some senior members of the Government to criminalise the purchase of all sex. Police were concerned about the practicalities of a law banning any payment for sex.

Remember this:

The Finnish model instead of the Swedish one?

Great news, though I hadn't realised that Coaker's report had been released yet.

The things worrying me about this proposed legislation, as described in The Times, is how they will define pimps & trafficking, once HH & her cronies have got their hands on it.

In the former case, the abolitionists are quite willing to classify responsible parlour & escort agancy management; i.e. the vast majority of such businesses within the UK, as pimps, thus allowing them to bring in the Swedish law in a backdoor way.

Secondly, Bindel, Harman, et al, adopt the US definition of trafficking, whereby you don't need to cross internationall frontiers, only state borders (or as they apply it to the UK travel from one town to another) for the purposes of engaging in sex work to have been trafficked.

Additionally, why repeat the 18,000 victims of trafficking figure & attribute it to being a police estimate, when this is actually a police estimate of the total number of female sex workers in the UK?

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Great news, though I hadn't realised that Coaker's report had been released yet.

The things worrying me about this proposed legislation, as described in The Times, is how they will define pimps & trafficking, once HH & her cronies have got their hands on it.

In the former case, the abolitionists are quite willing to classify responsible parlour & escort agancy management; i.e. the vast majority of such businesses within the UK, as pimps, thus allowing them to bring in the Swedish law in a backdoor way.

Secondly, Bindel, Harman, et al, adopt the US definition of trafficking, whereby you don't need to cross internationall frontiers, only state borders (or as they apply it to the UK travel from one town to another) for the purposes of engaging in sex work to have been trafficked.

Additionally, why repeat the 18,000 victims of trafficking figure & attribute it to being a police estimate, when this is actually a police estimate of the total number of female sex workers in the UK?

I do not think they will get away with it now.. Girls are still working willingly in parlours.. One hopes..

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I do not think they will get away with it now.. Girls are still working willingly in parlours.. One hopes..

Now, now, Pia, you should know that nobody would choose to work in this industry by now?

Repeat after me:

"I must stop thinking for myself. I must stop thinking for myself.";)

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"great" news?

this is not a victory they have just postponed making a decision, maybe until after the next election, then they can say "well we tried the Finnish model

it didn't work so..."

this:

"if the woman was being controlled by a pimp"

that reminds me that Tasmania has a law which makes it illegal to visit a brothel (which are illegal)

" illegal for a client to "knowingly" visit a "Commercial Sexual Services Business"

i.e you can pay an independent WG but don't go to a brothel

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The things worrying me about this proposed legislation, as described in The Times, is how they will define pimps & trafficking, once HH & her cronies have got their hands on it.

As usual the devil is most certainly going to be in the detail, and I would think especially so where "agencies" are concerned.

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As usual the devil is most certainly going to be in the detail, and I would think especially so where "agencies" are concerned.

if the shit hits the fan, move

BRISBANE, Australia, Sept. 19 (UPI) --

The state government of Queensland, Australia, has unveiled plans for an advocacy service that could include extolling the positive side of prostitution.

http://www.timesoftheinternet.com/5086.html

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Penalties planned for sleeping with women forced to sell sex

The Home Secretary will make clear that the measure will not affect sole traders or women selling sex of their own free will

The move represents a compromise solution to demands from some senior members of the Government to criminalise the purchase of all sex. Police were concerned about the practicalities of a law banning any payment for sex.

Remember this:

The Finnish model instead of the Swedish one?

WOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A xxx

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I wonder if they introduce the Swedish Model here in Scotland and the Finnish one for the rest of the UK - just to compare the results ?

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I wonder if they introduce the Swedish Model here in Scotland and the Finnish one for the rest of the UK - just to compare the results ?

better to try the NZ model in Scotland, but maybe not because NZ is such a strange country - eg and island where they drive on the left side of the road and speak funny language

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better to try the NZ model in Scotland, but maybe not because NZ is such a strange country - eg and island where they drive on the left side of the road and speak funny language

Mate where you been? (not to NZ) They speak english albeit with a funny accent and drive on the same side of the road as brits!

S x

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The profession is the oldest, indeed some say Mary Magdalene was a prostitue as indeed was Nell Gwynne. So why is this shyster government now trying to make a legal profession illegal?????

By the way it was Nell Gwynne who suggested to Charles II that he build a hospital for retired soldiers.

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"It would be an offence in England and Wales to pay for sex if the woman was being controlled by a pimp, had been coerced into the sex trade or was trafficked into Britain for sexual exploitation."

Would this mean the punter would be prosecuted even though there is no proof that he was aware that the girl was coerced into working.

Would this also mean that when I visit a brothel I would have to interview the girl first to make sure she is totally happy in her work. :P:confused:

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Would this mean the punter would be prosecuted even though there is no proof that he was aware that the girl was coerced into working.

Would this also mean that when I visit a brothel I would have to interview the girl first to make sure she is totally happy in her work. :P:confused:

I would imagine so Jimmie, and you might need to take out longer appointments in order to do so.

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I would imagine so Jimmie, and you might need to take out longer appointments in order to do so.

Oh Melanie, don't give him a shock :P

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:P

Mate where you been? (not to NZ) They speak english albeit with a funny accent and drive on the same side of the road as brits!S x

which is the left side, which is what I wrote ;)

which side do you drive on? in the middle of the road like in rural parts of Russia?

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:P

which is the left side, which is what I wrote ;)

which side do you drive on? in the middle of the road like in rural parts of Russia?

Well I presumed that you were meaning driving on the left hand side of the road for on coming traffic or had just simply got your lefts and rights mixed up :D, I could not think of any other reason for you to mention this?? Why call a country strange then give examples of it being strange when it is the same as your native(?) country??

Me I don't drive at all, I started taking lessons many years ago and ended in tears, possibly I will give it another go?

S x

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Well I presumed that you were meaning driving on the left hand side of the road for on coming traffic or had just simply got your lefts and rights mixed up :P, I could not think of any other reason for you to mention this?? Why call a country strange then give examples of it being strange when it is the same as your native(?) country??

Me I don't drive at all, I started taking lessons many years ago and ended in tears, possibly I will give it another go?

S x

Or perhaps have I missed what you were on about totally and you calling NZ a strange country and giving examples of it being a strange country, eg an Island (like Britain) drive on the left (like Britain) and speak in a funny language (like Britains strange regional accents). You were just comparing it to Britain?

S x

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Or perhaps have I missed what you were on about totally and you calling NZ a strange country and giving examples of it being a strange country, eg an Island (like Britain) drive on the left (like Britain) and speak in a funny language (like Britains strange regional accents). You were just comparing it to Britain?

S x

you missed the sarcastic tone in my comment, the meaning was; the country that is most like Britain is being ignored.

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"It would be an offence in England and Wales to pay for sex if the woman was being controlled by a pimp, had been coerced into the sex trade or was trafficked into Britain for sexual exploitation."

Would this mean the punter would be prosecuted even though there is no proof that he was aware that the girl was coerced into working.

Would this also mean that when I visit a brothel I would have to interview the girl first to make sure she is totally happy in her work. :P:confused:

Of course. Ther'll be a 19 page form to fill in after which you'll need to check her Health and Safety policy and do a risk assessment. Oh yes and check her passport and work permit.

There'll be ads on the radio explaining all this just like the ones at present about employing immigrants.

You will need to keep these records for at least two years in case Mr Plod, HMRC, the immigration people, HSE or MI5 decide t carry out a check.

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This, whilst sounding great initially, is simply preposterous. I'm sure laws like this have been rejected previously over police concerns that they would be unenforceable since there's no way for anyone to know what the girl's situation is. There are very few laws which have "strict liability"; An example would be having driving insurance. You either ARE insured or you aren't, there's no getting out of it by saying that you thought your wife had sorted it or whatever although that might alter the sentence, you're still guilty. With just about every offence on the statute books they have to prove an awareness that you were doing whatever it is that they've charged you with. They don't have to prove you knew it was illegal, but they have to prove you were aware and in control of what happened. For example you may not know that by paying for a girl's airfare to come into this country to work in a brothel, that you were guilty of trafficking BUT you WERE aware that you'd paid for the ticket and who was using it and what she was doing when she got here so you're guilty.

This law is proposing to prosecute people for sleeping with trafficked girls - as I've explained trafficked simply means that someone brought her in to the country to work in their or someone else's parlour/agency. This probably covers a lot of the EE and Asian girls currently working in the UK. You won't have any idea which girls. So how can they prosecute?

If a man holds a gun to the head of a woman and says "I want you to go over there and offer my friend a blow job, If you say anything I'll kill you". Would the friend (who knows nothing) be charged with rape? well no - he thought he had consent and had no control over her being forced. This is sort of what happens in a sex-slave prostitution situation, and they can't legally charge any men they find with the girls, with rape - but now they're proposing to charge them with something else but based on the SAME legal facts. It's just absurd.

I hope this makes sense to you all as it's a fairly complex issue in some places but I really can't see how it would work.

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there is a similiar proposal in Germany

Germany to Punish Customers of Forced Prostitutes

German officials are drafting legislation to sentence men for up to 10 years in prison if they obtain sexual services from women forced into prostitution, according to a report in a news magazine.

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The things worrying me about this proposed legislation, as described in The Times, is how they will define pimps & trafficking, once HH & her cronies have got their hands on it.

I wouldn't worry too much. Assuming this is accurate, this is a real victory for common sense. There are also many sensible people in the House Of Lords, who have to pass it, and hardly any rad-fems thankfully, who have the chance to bugger about with it and amend it and get rid of any silliness. Now the principle has been conceded, I'm sure common sense interpretations can be made to stick.

Plus I'm not sure this government has got long enough to run to get anything silly into law. If Brown, as looks quite likely, is replaced there will have to be an election soonish otherwise the same thing will happen to the new leader as happened to Brown when he chickened out of calling an election last year. They have no chance of winning the next election - they are just too unpopular.

Anyone who has sex with a girl he knows is being coerced into sex is basically a rapist. Though given the pathetic conviction rate for rape this is a bit like belt and braces ... and likely also to be ineffective in tackling people who really do knowingly have sex with coerced women (unfortunately!) This is just new Labour introducing yet another unworkable new law that the cops wont bother enforcing. If they cannot convict people for outright forcible rape, how on earth are they going to proceed with this?

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