puntaprima

Hpv Vaccination Poll > For Wgs & Punters [working]

You must answer each question in order to submit your vote   21 members have voted

  1. 1. I am a WG or a Punter who :

    • has already had the HPV Vaccine
    • is planning to have the HPV Vaccine soon
    • is currently considering the HPV Vaccine
    • is not currently considering the HPV Vaccine
    • will not be having the HPV Vaccine
    • is currently undecided
    • doesn't really know enough to answer
  2. 2. I am a WG or a Punter who :

    • thinks WGs should definately get the HPV Vaccine
    • thinks WGs should decide for themselves
    • doesn't really know enough to answer
    • doesn't really care either way
      0
  3. 3. I am a WG or a Punter who :

    • will buy the HPV Vaccine
    • will NOT buy the HPV Vaccine
    • Is undecided about buying the HPV Vaccine

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25 posts in this topic

I think most of on us here are well aware of the risks of OWO/RO/DFK as has been discussed in numerous posts, but after watching the BBC3 'Dangerous Practices' last night about the risks of Oral Sex, I felt compelled to post this poll regarding the HPV Vaccination. It surprised me to learn that males have a much higher risk in contracting this cancer via RO, than females do from OWO. It was quite a shock to learn that out of every 700 cases of this type of cancer, 600 are male compared to 100 female. And yet the Government decided that it was more cost effective to vaccinate only young females, to encourage what was described as a 'herd culture'. One of the main issues that were missed by this programme was any explanation of the options available for fully grown adults who still partake in these practices. Indeed the general dialogue of the documentary seemed to suggest that Oral Sex was practised only by the very younger members of society, as a form of birth control, and not necessarily for pleasure!! :blink:

The programme to me raised many more questions than it answered, so I am sure many who watched it will have much to add to this topic. However what was highlighted to me more than any other, and with particular regard to the world of punting, was an urgent need for WGs to get this vaccine. I personally feel that the HPV Vaccine should be purchased by every Working Girl without question.

In light of the higher risks posed to men via RO, I think that every professional WG has a responsibility to minimise infection to her clients. Who should pay? Well that’s another debate, but my personal opinion would be that the WG should. This should be considered as a business expense, similar to Business/Public Liability Insurance that must be paid by most small businesses in the UK. I don’t expect this statement to be too popular with some [for a change], but I am sure that anyone who watched the programme and has considered the questions that were left unanswered, would at least agree that WGs should seriously consider getting this vaccine without delay. It Costs between £300 & £450 so its approx 4 hours 'work' - maybe a lot less for some! It’s a serious topic, and it’s not my intention to upset anyone, but simply to ask you to give an honest opinion, that I feel could be very useful for us all in the long term.

Edited by puntaprima

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I think most of on us here are well aware of the risks of OWO/RO/DFK as has been discussed in numerous posts, but after watching the BBC3 'Dangerous Practices' last night about the risks of Oral Sex, I felt compelled to post this poll regarding the HPV Vaccination. It surprised me to learn that males have a much higher risk in contracting this cancer via RO, than females do from OWO. It was quite a shock to learn that out of every 700 cases of this type of cancer, 600 are male compared to 100 female. And yet the Government decided that it was more cost effective to vaccinate only young females, to encourage what was described as a 'herd culture'. One of the main issues that were missed by this programme was any explanation of the options available for fully grown adults who still partake in these practices. Indeed the general dialogue of the documentary seemed to suggest that Oral Sex was practised only by the very younger members of society, as a form of birth control, and not necessarily for pleasure!! :blink:

The programme to me raised many more questions than it answered, so I am sure many who watched it will have much to add to this topic. However what was highlighted to me more than any other, and with particular regard to the world of punting, was an urgent need for WGs to get this vaccine. I personally feel that the HPV Vaccine should be purchased by every Working Girl without question.

In light of the higher risks posed to men via RO, I think that every professional WG has a responsibility to minimise infection to her clients. Who should pay? Well that’s another debate, but my personal opinion would be that the WG should. This should be considered as a business expense, similar to Business/Public Liability Insurance that must be paid by most small businesses in the UK. I don’t expect this statement to be too popular with some [for a change], but I am sure that anyone who watched the programme and has considered the questions that were left unanswered, would at least agree that WGs should seriously consider getting this vaccine without delay. It Costs between £300 & £450 so its approx 4 hours 'work' - maybe a lot less for some! It’s a serious topic, and it’s not my intention to upset anyone, but simply to ask you to give an honest opinion, that I feel could be very useful for us all in the long term.

Right. From what I saw of the programm you don't "catch" cancer from oral. You do however have a high risk of being exposed to the HPV virus, however 80% of the adult population already have been exposed AND it's only 1 in 10 that have a problem with the virus once exposed. By the way you also can be exposed to HPV via vaginal and anal intercourse so I hope you are all using condoms with your partners at home, otherwise you are exposing any WG(especially the younger ones) to HPV yourselves.

You say it's the equivalent of 4 hours work. This is true however every person who tries to 'sell' us a product be it advertising, photography, search engineering always quote how many hours work the expenditure and time off work is worth. If we took all these offers up firstly our availability would be severely restricted(not good for clients), and we'd start to run out of 'hours' we actually were gaining from. The next person who quotes anything in terms of "working hours" I'm going to scream at.

If this vaccine were offered at the local GUM clinic I'd be happy to take it up as I have done Hep B, however I suspect I'd have to travel some distance to find a private source.

Edited by Strawberry

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By the way I've just done some reading on the side effects of this vaccine. A lot of people are reporting serious headaches, joint pains and even seizures. Any of these would not only mean physical distress for a WG, but also being unable to see any clients.

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It is recommended that you have the vaccine when you are 12-13 years old, hence the reason why all 12-13 girls are being vaccinated in school now.

Once you are sexually active and this could be with your partner, there is an 80% chance that you have it and the vaccination is of no use so would be a waste of money.

Edited by Danish Pia

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There is some good info here:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-cancer/cancer-questions/cervical-cancer-vaccine

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-cancer/cancer-questions/what-is-the-hpv-virus

Notably: If you are sexually active before you have the vaccine you may already have HPV and the vaccine won’t get rid of it.

Hence the reason it is not worth going out and spending £450, if you are already sexually active.

Basically we are all doomed :o

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Right. From what I saw of the programm you don't "catch" cancer from oral. You do however have a high risk of being exposed to the HPV virus, however 80% of the adult population already have been exposed AND it's only 1 in 10 that have a problem with the virus once exposed.

Thanks Strawberry for pointing out my typo - it was late - yes indeed one can only develop the cancer if one is exposed to and susceptible to it due to a reduced immune function etc. So not everyone is likely to be affected, and many adults will have already been exposed to, and may have developed immunity to, most of the strains of the HPV virus - including the worst strains that appear to trigger this cancer! :)

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Once you are sexually active and this could be with your partner, there is an 80% chance that you have it and the vaccination is of no use so would be a waste of money.
.......... it is not worth going out and spending £450, if you are already sexually active.

Basically we are all doomed :o

Not entirely true Pia. As you say, 80% of us (and a higher proportion if we’re over 50!) either have, or have had the HPV, but for most of us our immune system effectively combats and gets rid of it. But, of course, it can come back. Hopefully, those of us with a sufficiently robust immune system will continue to combat it but that’s not to say that vaccination is a total waste of time.

You, of course, could adopt a policy of avoiding all oral contact, but think of all those silver tongues you’d miss out on! :)

Unfortunately, life itself is a life-threatening condition. :eek:

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So it is only me that finds it insulting that the OP should tell us to fork out for a jab to protect the men?

100 woman still contract it but no mention of the men getting the jab?

I am going to get some dental dams in, if a guy is not satisfied that I have regular check ups and practice as safe sex as possible then he can dam(n) well lick rubber.

S x

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I caught the end of the programme and need to watch the whole thing, hopefully it will be available on iPlayer.

It definitely got me thinking, and I think I will be looking into getting the jab, even if I have to pay for it myself. I do think it should be available on the NHS.

Edited by WykeTyke

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For a start you have Darren who is 31, he has been with the same woman since he was 17 therefore there is as much chance of the clients catching HPV off their wives/partners as a working girl, Or indeed already have and it is developing at we speak.

80% have it only 10% will develop more especially those with lower immune system.

The OP is saying about the woman only getting it when this is what was being done through the NHS with young girls, it is thought that you vaccinate the girls then they don't pass anything onto the boys (erm what about gay and bisexual men?), however with the HPV virus on the rise this is found to not be working. But how wrong is that? If the guys are more likely to have HPV surely they are a more at risk group and should be having the vaccination? Personally I think it should have been given to BOTH, cost cutting? I think both young girls and boys should be given it on the NHS as their immune systems have not fully developed like us older adults.

Any adult should think about it whether a female sex worker, male punter or anyone that has sex! We are all independently responsible for our own sexual health.

S x

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By the way I've just done some reading on the side effects of this vaccine. A lot of people are reporting serious headaches, joint pains and even seizures. Any of these would not only mean physical distress for a WG, but also being unable to see any clients.

And even deaths - 65 deaths at the latest count and 20,366 reports of adverse effects as of 12 Jan 2011. Gardasil's safety record is in serious question. Take a look a the latest from the National Vaccine Organisation.

=HPV4"]Vaccinne side affects database

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Programmes such as this are designed to alarm (there would be no mileage in producing them otherwise) and the makers may have their own agenda. Statistics are then easily used (maybe not ‘bent’ but certainly taken out of context) to support their case. I was initially alarmed to find out today that about 90% of people over 50 carry or have carried the HPV, but put this in context. Of the about 5400 cases of oral cancer in the UK each year, only 800 are related to the HPV – albeit the majority in men! Now, I don’t know how many die from the disease, but clearly not that many.

On the other hand, young girls are vaccinated against the HPV because it also protects them from cervical cancer, and that kills about 1000 women a year. I can fully understand the reticence of the NHS in promoting the mass vaccination of boys at this time.

As to the OP’s view that WGs have a responsibility to have themselves vaccinated in order to ‘protect’ their clients, us punters, I share Sabrina’s view that this is a tad insulting. There also seems to be a bit of a flaw in the argument. Whilst vaccination may protect the individual from contracting HPV-based oral cancer, it’s not clear to me whether such a vaccination prevents that individual from passing the virus on through oral contact.

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Whilst vaccination may protect the individual from contracting HPV-based oral cancer, it’s not clear to me whether such a vaccination prevents that individual from passing the virus on through oral contact.

This is a very good question which was not pointed out before. Many people don't realise that this gardasil vaccine only prevent against developing of cancer (cervical or oral), it does not prevent against contracting HPV in the first place. (strain 16 and 18).

Does anybody have any research links on the Calynx question I highlighted above?

Glasgow girl: if you reading this, you seem to have a lot of knowledge on the subject, can you post your view please.

Edited by Xenia

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only prevent against developing of cancer (cervical or oral).

Meant to say: against developing of cancer caused by HPV.

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I think they should definitely make this vaccination free for those who choose to be inoculated. I got the jabs back in Australia. It was free for 18 months to any woman (why just women I don't know) who wanted it. There were no side effects in my case or any of my female friends and relatives. I happened to miss the documentary so I'll try and watch it online or something. Hopefully then I can add more to the discussion!

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it’s not clear to me whether such a vaccination prevents that individual from passing the virus on through oral contact.

So if you already have HPV and get the jab does it get rid of the HPV or just stops it developing into something more? If it is the latter than I would think it could still be passed?

The whole point of giving the jab young is they are not supposed to yet have HPV, so I imagine the jab is to prevent getting it in the first place not to stop it being passed on if they already have it?

It is not clear is it

S X

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Some more extracts from the Cancerhelp website;

Human papilloma virus (HPV)

Viruses can help cause some cancers. But this does not mean that you can ‘catch’ these cancers like an infection. The virus can cause genetic changes in cells that make them more likely to become cancerous in the future.

Mouth and oropharyngeal cancers have been linked to the human papilloma virus (HPV). There are more than 100 different types of (HPV). Some types are called the wart virus, because they cause warts on the genital area or skin. Other types of HPV are known to increase the risk of some types of cancers. These include cancer of the cervix, vaginal cancer and vulval cancer.

In a review of many studies, scientists found signs of HPV in just under 1 in 4 people with mouth cancer (24%), and in over 1 in 3 people with cancer in the oropharynx (36%). HPV 16 was the most common HPV type in these cancers. This is also the most common strain found in cervical and genital cancers. HPV infection is common and many people without oral cancer have HPV detected in their mouths, so there are likely to be other factors needed alongside the HPV for cancer to develop.

Further reading on the website and the trials have only been run for 6 years so far, cancer can take 10-20 years to develop. It seems the tests they run are only for precancerous changes, and doesn't state they have found whether or not the trial subjects actually got infected with HPV or not(and remember you can often deal with infection yourself).

To me the data is very vague. It seems the only people the vaccine would offer decent protection for, negating the vaccine risks would be those who have not had any unprotected sexual contact.

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In the programme, the Doctor who gave his son the HPV vaccine was giving him Gardasil, not the NHS chosen vaccine.

Genital warts was not mentioned at all in the programme, but this is also preventable with the Gardasil vaccine.

I think it's worth having it at any age. Saying that people may have been exposed to HPV is all very well but many people won't necessarily have been exposed to the harmful types (e.g. not had genital warts).

Edited by AA5B

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This is a very good question which was not pointed out before. Many people don't realise that this gardasil vaccine only prevent against developing of cancer (cervical or oral), it does not prevent against contracting HPV in the first place. (strain 16 and 18).

Does anybody have any research links on the Calynx question I highlighted above?

Glasgow girl: if you reading this, you seem to have a lot of knowledge on the subject, can you post your view please.

Not true. The vaccine prevents infection, not the subsequent development of cancer after infection.

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There is some good info here:

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-cancer/cancer-questions/cervical-cancer-vaccine

http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/about-cancer/cancer-questions/what-is-the-hpv-virus

Notably: If you are sexually active before you have the vaccine you may already have HPV and the vaccine won’t get rid of it.

Hence the reason it is not worth going out and spending £450, if you are already sexually active.

Basically we are all doomed :o

Have you had genital warts? If not then you have not had all types of HPV. The vaccine is still useful. You can be screened for the HPV types that you have been exposed to. But it's simpler just to get the vaccine. Saying it is worthless is unscientfic. Of course it is more likely to be useful for virgins, that does not make it useless for everyone else.

There are 100+ types of HPV. It is likely that sexually active people will have some of these - but maybe not the dangerous ones yet.

Edited by AA5B

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It is recommended that you have the vaccine when you are 12-13 years old, hence the reason why all 12-13 girls are being vaccinated in school now.

Once you are sexually active and this could be with your partner, there is an 80% chance that you have it and the vaccination is of no use so would be a waste of money.

Nonsense, there is not just one type of HPV. Have you had gential warts? No - then you have not had that type of HPV - so why should you have had the cancer type?

As for cost - what is your health worth to you? £400 is about 8 months gym membership.

Edited by AA5B

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Some interesting comments so far, but I do realise that this is a contentious issue for many. My initial opinion was not posted to gain friends from all corners, but was more for the purpose of generating some debate and sparking some opinions from people who are taking part in this 'calculated' risk activity.

One striking observation up to now is just how few members have actually voted so far!

I wonder if this is because of privacy concerns, or just that many are just not interested in this issue, and would rather not worry or concern themselves until, or if, the need ever arises?

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Nonsense, there is not just one type of HPV. Have you had gential warts? No - then you have not had that type of HPV - so why should you have had the cancer type?

As for cost - what is your health worth to you? £400 is about 8 months gym membership.

AA5B

You have offered some very useful advice and information in several posts dealing with the HPV/OWO area, yet you haven't posted your vote on this poll.

Will you be voting, and if not why not ? :)

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People who post personal information on the internet are fools.

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People who post personal information on the internet are fools.

So are you telling me that your real name is Mr AA5B ?? :lol:

And whats the harm in stating your position [vote] on a serious topic such as this - just one of the many that you seem to be more than happy to pontificate on ?? B)

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