Jonnybgood

Keeping Up With The Jones's

26 posts in this topic

Yesterday I saw a new girl and very nice it was too, apart from the sex my knowledge of geography improved, the girl was from Moldova, a small country sandwiched between Romania and the Ukraine. Anyway back to topic, the girl was very sweet and the sex was great, the only problem was, I was taking a long time to come and the end of my session was getting closer, so I asked her if we could try anal, a small frown but she turned over and applied the lube. After a bit of gentle pressure I entered her, after less than a minute I knew she wasnt happy so I withdrew turned her over and gave her a cuddle. I asked if she was ok and she said no, she wasn't very experienced with anal and found it painfull. After a cuddle, some mutual carressing and chat, she gave me a blowjob that gave me a lot of relief. As you can imagine I had a few concerns, the girl told me she had been in the country for 2 weeks and was going back in April, she was getting money together for College, her english was excellent and she seemed well educated, this and her attitude during the session allayed any doubts I had about her being trafficked. Her advert said she was an anal expert, obviously not, now why does she and other girls advertise services they arent comfortable with, do they feel they need to, to keep up with other girls to attract punters? Anal sex for me isnt a must, Ive seen lots of girls where anal has been part of their act but havent partaken, now what if a punter was seeing this girl just for anal, problems!! Plus I imagine there are plenty of sad bastards out there that would of got a lot of pleasure out of her pain and discomfort, with me she didnt say a word, just carried on untill I stopped it. She is a very nice girl and I told her I want to see her again and if there is anything she has a problem with to speak up, and do the same with other punters.

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She probably thought she had to offer all services in order to get clients. But after you have spoken to her she might rethink what she advertises, she is very lucky she had a nice client like you who realised she wasnt comfortable it could have been a lot worse for her with someone else.

Shelly

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She probably thought she had to offer all services in order to get clients. But after you have spoken to her she might rethink what she advertises, she is very lucky she had a nice client like you who realised she wasnt comfortable it could have been a lot worse for her with someone else.

Shelly

Indeed. Especially on the other site so many enjoys lists have everything ticked or havent been updated which is why i always confirm what it says is on offer actually is on the phone when enquiring and again when i first meet the lady before handing my cash over. Being referred to a profile by the lady isnt sufficient for me.

As you say this lady was lucky she had a nice punter. Putting anal expert on her profile is certainly not a good idea.:)

Edited by smiths

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She probably thought she had to offer all services in order to get clients. But after you have spoken to her she might rethink what she advertises, she is very lucky she had a nice client like you who realised she wasnt comfortable it could have been a lot worse for her with someone else.

Shelly

At the risk of sounding fluffy, I always feel that it is a mistake to feel entitled to service x, y, or z. I would always encourage a WG to say if she is not comfortable about anything, and it is something I make a point of saying to WGs that I meet. I don't want her to pretend she is ok with something that she is not. There is no shortage of other things to do if for whatever reason she says "I'd rather not do that". To those that think that I am a mug for taking this approach, I would simply say that if you build a certain degree of trust, then in my experience it leads to a much better and more relaxed time together.

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As total fan of the female bum, I enjoy anal. But I would rather have good and freely offered vanilla sex time than a reluctant porno sesh.

I am very wary of the agency sites that have under 25s offering A. As a big generalisation, I have found most women who get off with A are older with a wider and better experience of sex. The times where I have introduced women to A have usually been after several meetings.

I fear A is often just an agency come on and followed by the "at discretion" get out.

More likely to find it by looking for reviews that just suggest a warm and open minded type.

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At the risk of sounding fluffy, I always feel that it is a mistake to feel entitled to service x, y, or z.

But surely if she is advertising as offering x, y, or z, one can expect x, y, or z???

It's false advertising. No 2 ways about it. She has gone as far as to describe herself as an 'expert' in a dept where she clearly isn't. Crazy!

Her next client may forgiving as the OP was.

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At the risk of sounding fluffy, I always feel that it is a mistake to feel entitled to service x, y, or z. I would always encourage a WG to say if she is not comfortable about anything, and it is something I make a point of saying to WGs that I meet. I don't want her to pretend she is ok with something that she is not. There is no shortage of other things to do if for whatever reason she says "I'd rather not do that". To those that think that I am a mug for taking this approach, I would simply say that if you build a certain degree of trust, then in my experience it leads to a much better and more relaxed time together.

I think it all depends on the rapport you have with the lady and how comfortable you feel with each other. If it's the first time she's seeing you, that can be harder.

There's a lady who I've been seeing on and off for a few years who has never explicitly stated on her website what services she offers. We've always had a good rapport and as I've started to see her more frequently recently, I've been asking for some other services which I wasn't sure if she would provide as they may have been on the boundaries of her comfort zone.

We've built up a lot of trust so I feel comfortable in asking her politely if she will cater for 'x' or 'y.'

Similarly she is polite but firm if there's anything she's not comfortable in doing. For my last session, I asked for a few things she had never mentioned and she was happy to provide them with one exception.

But as you say, I don't feel one can be entitled to anything but make sure you ask up front first when you book.

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At the risk of sounding fluffy, I always feel that it is a mistake to feel entitled to service x, y, or z. I would always encourage a WG to say if she is not comfortable about anything, and it is something I make a point of saying to WGs that I meet. I don't want her to pretend she is ok with something that she is not. There is no shortage of other things to do if for whatever reason she says "I'd rather not do that". To those that think that I am a mug for taking this approach, I would simply say that if you build a certain degree of trust, then in my experience it leads to a much better and more relaxed time together.

For me the problem with that could be i wouldnt receive the service (DFK) that is absolutely essential to me and thus the punt would be a disappointment. I have no interest in the lady offering something she doesnt want to, but if i have done all i can before the punt and am clean, respectful and have the agreed money i expect to receive what was agreed. If it transpires she doesnt want to offer DFK then thats fine as long as she tells me that before i hand my money over as i would leave and go elsewhere. If as has happened she/they only say this after returning from stashing my money then that is a clear rip off. What i got from a pair of total rip off WGs was "we have bad gums so cant kiss" as soon as they came back in the room after taking my money whereas a couple of minutes before they said yes we do kiss as agreed. Fortunately this is a rare occurence in my experience.

So clear communication is essential right from when you make an enquiry about a booking. I always ensure i am crystal clear what i require, if i dont receive it its virtually always been because it was never actually on offer in the first place. :)

Edited by smiths

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I wonder if the girl was putting pressure on herself, or was her pimp doing so. I would be very uneasy about this situation. Sounds too much like coercion to me.

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Yesterday I saw a new girl and very nice it was too, apart from the sex my knowledge of geography improved, the girl was from Moldova, a small country sandwiched between Romania and the Ukraine. Anyway back to topic, the girl was very sweet and the sex was great, the only problem was, I was taking a long time to come and the end of my session was getting closer, so I asked her if we could try anal, a small frown but she turned over and applied the lube. After a bit of gentle pressure I entered her, after less than a minute I knew she wasnt happy so I withdrew turned her over and gave her a cuddle. I asked if she was ok and she said no, she wasn't very experienced with anal and found it painfull. After a cuddle, some mutual carressing and chat, she gave me a blowjob that gave me a lot of relief. As you can imagine I had a few concerns, the girl told me she had been in the country for 2 weeks and was going back in April, she was getting money together for College, her english was excellent and she seemed well educated, this and her attitude during the session allayed any doubts I had about her being trafficked. Her advert said she was an anal expert, obviously not, now why does she and other girls advertise services they arent comfortable with, do they feel they need to, to keep up with other girls to attract punters? Anal sex for me isnt a must, Ive seen lots of girls where anal has been part of their act but havent partaken, now what if a punter was seeing this girl just for anal, problems!! Plus I imagine there are plenty of sad bastards out there that would of got a lot of pleasure out of her pain and discomfort, with me she didnt say a word, just carried on untill I stopped it. She is a very nice girl and I told her I want to see her again and if there is anything she has a problem with to speak up, and do the same with other punters.

Did you review her? It would enable you to warn anal seekers that she is not happy with it. Also she sounds a nice, if misguided, girl and a review might help her attract suitable clients

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As you can imagine I had a few concerns, the girl told me she had been in the country for 2 weeks and was going back in April, she was getting money together for College, her english was excellent and she seemed well educated, this and her attitude during the session allayed any doubts I had about her being trafficked. Her advert said she was an anal expert, obviously not, now why does she and other girls advertise services they arent comfortable with, do they feel they need to, to keep up with other girls to attract punters?

My question is "Who wrote her advert?" And was the "advert" what, on "another well known adult site" is called a "profile" or was it a stand-alone web-site, or a page on an agency site?

Edited by Irgendeiner

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Anyway back to topic, the girl was very sweet and the sex was great, the only problem was, I was taking a long time to come and the end of my session was getting closer, so I asked her if we could try anal, a small frown but she turned over and applied the lube.

Why have anal sex with her when it's obvious she's not happy to do it - what pleasure do you derive from it? It's all very well giving a cuddle, sure that'll make her feel better :rolleyes: but why put her through that? The poor girl :angry:

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At the risk of sounding fluffy, I always feel that it is a mistake to feel entitled to service x, y, or z.

I agree. That should be the basis of every punt. Not all girls are suited and I dread to think what some of those girls go through and the toll it can take.

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At the risk of sounding fluffy, I always feel that it is a mistake to feel entitled to service x, y, or z. I would always encourage a WG to say if she is not comfortable about anything, and it is something I make a point of saying to WGs that I meet. I don't want her to pretend she is ok with something that she is not. There is no shortage of other things to do if for whatever reason she says "I'd rather not do that". To those that think that I am a mug for taking this approach, I would simply say that if you build a certain degree of trust, then in my experience it leads to a much better and more relaxed time together.

Sadly you are in the minority. Not on this board perhaps but within the general punting population sadly most guys would get off on this. The business is more demanding now on the girls than ever.

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Sadly you are in the minority. Not on this board perhaps but within the general punting population sadly most guys would get off on this. The business is more demanding now on the girls than ever.

Most might not weigh up the question, but would most actually get off on it? You really do surprise me. No wonder the girls seem glad to see me. I must be a piece of cake by comparison.

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Tend to agree with The Vicar and Mr DivineMK on entitlements when it comes to the Ladies. I do my research as thoroughly as possible to insure that the Lady provides the services I'm seeking. In emails and phone conservations with her, I try to ascertain those services are available, before booking the appointment. When I visit I'll go over the services I wish for that day. During the visit should the Lady not wish to provide some of the services...I naturally would feel disappointed...but (I feel) she has the right to change her mind. It's her health and her body and her right to deny services.

When it comes to A Levels...It's totally comes under her control . I understand it can be very painful, any man who has had a colonoscopy should understand.

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At the risk of being called a spoil-sport, I think that there is a good chance that a Crown Prosecutor eager to please his masters could get a conviction for trafficking this girl, and a thin chance that our colleague could be done for Hattie's new offence!

All the facts that we have is that this girl, who comes from Moldova, but is probably travelling on a Romanian passport, has been in UK for only two weeks, and is`going home in April, but already has a flat to service clients in, a telephone and an "advertisement" which mentions anal, so is not a small ad in a local paper.

A girl doesn't get off the Easyjet from Bucharest and start work just like that.

At its nicest (and why not?) she met a second year student at the college where she is about to start, who told her just how expensive life is at Uni, but mentioned that a friend of hers had a super scheme whereby a pretty girl could earn enough to finance at least her first year, provided she was prepared to fuck old men in London! She (having lost her virginity to a lad who promised her everything, then ditched her swiftly) said, "Just show me how!" The schyster was produced and told her honestly that he could provide flat, telephone and punters for €2k5 (or whatever) a month.

The deal was done, she bought her own Easyjet ticket, and was met at the airport by the London end of the deal, who took her to the flat, briefed her on how to play, and (obviously - what else would she have expected?) took her Passport off her for security for the (very reasonable) fee that she agreed to pay.

I think that neatly fits s57 Trafficking into the UK for sexual exploitation, the "relevant offence" being s52 Causing or inciting prostitution for gain! No deception, and our nice girl knew exactly what she was letting herself in for, and while she hasn't committed any offence, the London end of the agency can expect to do time, if convicted.

Next - Hattie's Law!

Remember the wording:

53A Paying for sexual services of a prostitute subjected to force etc.

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a) A makes or promises payment for the sexual services of a prostitute (B),

(B) a third person © has engaged in exploitative conduct of a kind likely to induce or encourage B to provide the sexual services for which A has made or promised payment, and

© C engaged in that conduct for or in the expectation of gain for C

or another person (apart from A or B).

(2) The following are irrelevant—

(a) where in the world the sexual services are to be provided and whether those services are provided,

(B) whether A is, or ought to be, aware that C has engaged in exploitative conduct.

(3) C engages in exploitative conduct if—

(a) C uses force, threats (whether or not relating to violence) or any other form of coercion, or

(B) C practises any form of deception.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

So our nice Moldovan is, not to spare her blushes, a prostitute, and the OP has actually paid for and had (pretty consensual) sexual services.

I'd say that holding her passport could be called coercion, and, stretching the words to the extreme, telling her that all her clients would be nice, well washed and respectful people, like our colleague, could be deception.

The nice Romanian lady who arranged everything for her, met her at the airport, wrote her advertisement and kept her passport, certainly wanted to help nice girl earn a pot of money, but also wanted her share, so "gain for C or another".

In all of this, your worships, the prosecution agrees that the prostitute was an entirely willing party, but the offences, are, I submit, very clearly made out!

Mmmmmmmm! Thanks Hattie!

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At the risk of being called a spoil-sport, I think that there is a good chance that a Crown Prosecutor eager to please his masters could get a conviction for trafficking this girl, and a thin chance that our colleague could be done for Hattie's new offence!

All the facts that we have is that this girl, who comes from Moldova, but is probably travelling on a Romanian passport, has been in UK for only two weeks, and is`going home in April, but already has a flat to service clients in, a telephone and an "advertisement" which mentions anal, so is not a small ad in a local paper.

A girl doesn't get off the Easyjet from Bucharest and start work just like that.

At its nicest (and why not?) she met a second year student at the college where she is about to start, who told her just how expensive life is at Uni, but mentioned that a friend of hers had a super scheme whereby a pretty girl could earn enough to finance at least her first year, provided she was prepared to fuck old men in London! She (having lost her virginity to a lad who promised her everything, then ditched her swiftly) said, "Just show me how!" The schyster was produced and told her honestly that he could provide flat, telephone and punters for €2k5 (or whatever) a month.

The deal was done, she bought her own Easyjet ticket, and was met at the airport by the London end of the deal, who took her to the flat, briefed her on how to play, and (obviously - what else would she have expected?) took her Passport off her for security for the (very reasonable) fee that she agreed to pay.

I think that neatly fits s57 Trafficking into the UK for sexual exploitation, the "relevant offence" being s52 Causing or inciting prostitution for gain! No deception, and our nice girl knew exactly what she was letting herself in for, and while she hasn't committed any offence, the London end of the agency can expect to do time, if convicted.

Next - Hattie's Law!

Remember the wording:

53A Paying for sexual services of a prostitute subjected to force etc.

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a) A makes or promises payment for the sexual services of a prostitute (B),

(B) a third person © has engaged in exploitative conduct of a kind likely to induce or encourage B to provide the sexual services for which A has made or promised payment, and

© C engaged in that conduct for or in the expectation of gain for C

or another person (apart from A or B).

(2) The following are irrelevant—

(a) where in the world the sexual services are to be provided and whether those services are provided,

(B) whether A is, or ought to be, aware that C has engaged in exploitative conduct.

(3) C engages in exploitative conduct if—

(a) C uses force, threats (whether or not relating to violence) or any other form of coercion, or

(B) C practises any form of deception.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

So our nice Moldovan is, not to spare her blushes, a prostitute, and the OP has actually paid for and had (pretty consensual) sexual services.

I'd say that holding her passport could be called coercion, and, stretching the words to the extreme, telling her that all her clients would be nice, well washed and respectful people, like our colleague, could be deception.

The nice Romanian lady who arranged everything for her, met her at the airport, wrote her advertisement and kept her passport, certainly wanted to help nice girl earn a pot of money, but also wanted her share, so "gain for C or another".

In all of this, your worships, the prosecution agrees that the prostitute was an entirely willing party, but the offences, are, I submit, very clearly made out!

Mmmmmmmm! Thanks Hattie!

I couldn't have put it better myself

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At the risk of being called a spoil-sport, I think that there is a good chance that a Crown Prosecutor eager to please his masters could get a conviction for trafficking this girl, and a thin chance that our colleague could be done for Hattie's new offence!

All the facts that we have is that this girl, who comes from Moldova, but is probably travelling on a Romanian passport, has been in UK for only two weeks, and is`going home in April, but already has a flat to service clients in, a telephone and an "advertisement" which mentions anal, so is not a small ad in a local paper.

A girl doesn't get off the Easyjet from Bucharest and start work just like that.

At its nicest (and why not?) she met a second year student at the college where she is about to start, who told her just how expensive life is at Uni, but mentioned that a friend of hers had a super scheme whereby a pretty girl could earn enough to finance at least her first year, provided she was prepared to fuck old men in London! She (having lost her virginity to a lad who promised her everything, then ditched her swiftly) said, "Just show me how!" The schyster was produced and told her honestly that he could provide flat, telephone and punters for €2k5 (or whatever) a month.

The deal was done, she bought her own Easyjet ticket, and was met at the airport by the London end of the deal, who took her to the flat, briefed her on how to play, and (obviously - what else would she have expected?) took her Passport off her for security for the (very reasonable) fee that she agreed to pay.

I think that neatly fits s57 Trafficking into the UK for sexual exploitation, the "relevant offence" being s52 Causing or inciting prostitution for gain! No deception, and our nice girl knew exactly what she was letting herself in for, and while she hasn't committed any offence, the London end of the agency can expect to do time, if convicted.

Next - Hattie's Law!

Remember the wording:

53A Paying for sexual services of a prostitute subjected to force etc.

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

(a) A makes or promises payment for the sexual services of a prostitute (B),

(B) a third person © has engaged in exploitative conduct of a kind likely to induce or encourage B to provide the sexual services for which A has made or promised payment, and

© C engaged in that conduct for or in the expectation of gain for C

or another person (apart from A or B).

(2) The following are irrelevant—

(a) where in the world the sexual services are to be provided and whether those services are provided,

(B) whether A is, or ought to be, aware that C has engaged in exploitative conduct.

(3) C engages in exploitative conduct if—

(a) C uses force, threats (whether or not relating to violence) or any other form of coercion, or

(B) C practises any form of deception.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

So our nice Moldovan is, not to spare her blushes, a prostitute, and the OP has actually paid for and had (pretty consensual) sexual services.

I'd say that holding her passport could be called coercion, and, stretching the words to the extreme, telling her that all her clients would be nice, well washed and respectful people, like our colleague, could be deception.

The nice Romanian lady who arranged everything for her, met her at the airport, wrote her advertisement and kept her passport, certainly wanted to help nice girl earn a pot of money, but also wanted her share, so "gain for C or another".

In all of this, your worships, the prosecution agrees that the prostitute was an entirely willing party, but the offences, are, I submit, very clearly made out!

Mmmmmmmm! Thanks Hattie!

Which pretty well summarises how the Law makes an ass of itself whenever it peers round a bedroom door.

And how spot on that Home Office mandarin was who wrote a memo pointing out that he he wanted to send messages he wrote a letter rather than propose a law!

The law should deal with harms done not try to make us good.

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You can argue the legalities and the circumstances all night and day but surely a modicum of self regulation by the Punter is called for. All services discretionary and if the girl frowns at anal sex you don't go ahead and do it regardless and think a cuddle will make it better.

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From speaking to a few EE girls on my punting escapades, it does seem to be quite common for what initially looks like a group of indie EE girls working at a shared flat to actually be more like a parlour that is run by a "boss". The boss provides the flat, sets the rates, handles the ** profiles, answers emails, answers phone calls, provides some level of security... and often sets the services.

I've never heard of anything sinister like force, coercion, deception or holding passports... in fact, the girls have said they entered into the agreement willingly, they knew what was expected of them and what they would get paid (often seems to be 50% of the fee + some money for rent if they live there too)... that doesn't stop them complaining about the boss, how much they take or the services though. Some think that what initially sounded like a good deal, actually isn't that great but it can be difficult for them to move on elsewhere or set up independently... especially if they are living there too or are only here short term.

I don't think it's all bad though, as it would be difficult for a lot of EE girls to work here without these flats. They do provide a service for the girls, just like the traditional parlours and agencies, and the girls can make a lot of money.

From the description, my reading of the situation is that I doubt she wrote the profile proclaiming to be an anal expert but that she probably did know what was expected of her and is just finding that she can't quite hack it.

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From speaking to a few EE girls on my punting escapades, it does seem to be quite common for what initially looks like a group of indie EE girls working at a shared flat to actually be more like a parlour that is run by a "boss". The boss provides the flat, sets the rates, handles the ** profiles, answers emails, answers phone calls, provides some level of security... and often sets the services.

I've never heard of anything sinister like force, coercion, deception or holding passports... in fact, the girls have said they entered into the agreement willingly, they knew what was expected of them and what they would get paid (often seems to be 50% of the fee + some money for rent if they live there too)... that doesn't stop them complaining about the boss, how much they take or the services though. Some think that what initially sounded like a good deal, actually isn't that great but it can be difficult for them to move on elsewhere or set up independently... especially if they are living there too or are only here short term.

I don't think it's all bad though, as it would be difficult for a lot of EE girls to work here without these flats. They do provide a service for the girls, just like the traditional parlours and agencies, and the girls can make a lot of money.

From the description, my reading of the situation is that I doubt she wrote the profile proclaiming to be an anal expert but that she probably did know what was expected of her and is just finding that she can't quite hack it.

I think in bald terms your summary is broadly accurate though I doubt that she appreciated or understood the significance of her agreement to be described as an "anal expert".

It is worth considering the underlying implications of this arrangement imo. This "agreement" between the WG and whoever wrote her profile does not exactly seem to be have been negotiated by equals, and her desire to make some money (or whatever) appears to have been exploited. This has ended up in her being in a situation where she is "offering" services (through naivete?) that in reality she would rather not provide (to say the least). This may not constitute trafficked, or even controlled for gain, but it is imo highly distasteful and exploitative.

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I think in bald terms your summary is broadly accurate though I doubt that she appreciated or understood the significance of her agreement to be described as an "anal expert".

It is worth considering the underlying implications of this arrangement imo. This "agreement" between the WG and whoever wrote her profile does not exactly seem to be have been negotiated by equals, and her desire to make some money (or whatever) appears to have been exploited. This has ended up in her being in a situation where she is "offering" services (through naivete?) that in reality she would rather not provide (to say the least). This may not constitute trafficked, or even controlled for gain, but it is imo highly distasteful and exploitative.

Following your line of reasoning... all parlours and agencies require some minimum level of service, even if that is just a full personal service... and they are unlikely to say the girls are anything other than experts at this service. Would you conclude that all agencies and parlours are exploitative?

For the record I'd obviously prefer that all WGs were only offering the services that they want to offer (and ideally that they enjoy as well)... I just don't see much distinction between a parlour/agency that requires girls provide a full personal service or one that requires they provide anal as well. If the girl doesn't want to provide anal she can work for a full personal service agency, if she doesn't want to provide a full personal service she can work for Starbucks.

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Simple answer, only see British independents, or go to parlours that only employ British women, otherwise if you see EE girls you are are encouraging the criminals.

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When you first start punting, its often difficult to spot anything untoward in this fluffy hobby, until you have an experience that is not expected, similar to the OP. It then makes you wonder about things like trafficking, drugs and coercion, in reality, its rarely as bad as you think. Even in established agencies you can sometimes get a whiff of coercion if you sniff hard enough, but it’s often not even worth dwelling on. However in the case of EE Independents running black ops in the UK I would tread carefully and you should ask yourself whether its in your interest to take matters further. It may better to forget it and move on, and not see the girl or her associates again, unless you really believe you can talk to them openly and face the consequences, consequences that cannot be reversed. There are many nice people form EE operating off the radar in most UK cities since the floodgates were opened, and I would advise caution.

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