AntonyB

Hearing Other Men At The Incall Premises

23 posts in this topic

Now by "other men" i don't mean other punters who may be seeing someone there, i mean guys just sitting around in this woman's flat doing god knows what.

I was browsing the 'other' place two weeks ago and saw someone who i've wanted to see for a while. So i rang her and arranged a late afternoon meet.

I arrive in south London and find the place. I ring her to let me in and she opens the door. She's ok and her body is good, we go upstairs and she takes me into a room it's a dump. Cramped, with boxes everywhere. I sit on the bed and she tells me to relax while she just goes next door. 'next door' was basically the door at the side of the bed that led to what i assumed was the living room. I was already thinking to myself that this is going to be awful,then i heard something that made me just say no way.

I hear two different male voices one of them having a conversation on his phone the other one having a convo with this woman. Now i don't know about some people, but the idea of a guy hearing me having sex while they are basically in the next room put me right off. The idea of two men hearing me was even worse. Especially the idea of how vulnerable i'd be naked if they had bad intentions. Now i've been on punts where the lady has warned beforehand that she has male security on the premises. That's fine as i've been prewarned and i don't see or hear them (If they are actually there in the first place, i have my doubts) and her flat is actually clean, but this was something just too far.

She comes back in and i just couldn't go through with it and did my first ever walkout. She asked me what was wrong and i just said i wasn't really feeling the location and it wasn't her. Felt good to actually walk. No way could i have relaxed.

So would you mind hearing random men who are not punting, while your potentially going to be having a bonk?

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Now by "other men" i don't mean other punters who may be seeing someone there, i mean guys just sitting around in this woman's flat doing god knows what.

I was browsing the 'other' place two weeks ago and saw someone who i've wanted to see for a while. So i rang her and arranged a late afternoon meet.

I arrive in south London and find the place. I ring her to let me in and she opens the door. She's ok and her body is good, we go upstairs and she takes me into a room it's a dump. Cramped, with boxes everywhere. I sit on the bed and she tells me to relax while she just goes next door. 'next door' was basically the door at the side of the bed that led to what i assumed was the living room. I was already thinking to myself that this is going to be awful,then i heard something that made me just say no way.

I hear two different male voices one of them having a conversation on his phone the other one having a convo with this woman. Now i don't know about some people, but the idea of a guy hearing me having sex while they are basically in the next room put me right off. The idea of two men hearing me was even worse. Especially the idea of how vulnerable i'd be naked if they had bad intentions. Now i've been on punts where the lady has warned beforehand that she has male security on the premises. That's fine as i've been prewarned and i don't see or hear them (If they are actually there in the first place, i have my doubts) and her flat is actually clean, but this was something just too far.

She comes back in and i just couldn't go through with it and did my first ever walkout. She asked me what was wrong and i just said i wasn't really feeling the location and it wasn't her. Felt good to actually walk. No way could i have relaxed.

So would you mind hearing random men who are not punting, while your potentially going to be having a bonk?

I dont like hearing other guys in a place where i have been told or i assume because i havent been told otherwise, that its just the lady and me. If she has security i dont want to hear them.

In the circumstance you were in i would definitely have walked too. With newbies to me i always bear in mind there could be guys in her place, and it takes me a while to relax.

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sounds a bit too unprofessional, you did the right thing by walking.

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Now by "other men" i don't mean other punters who may be seeing someone there, i mean guys just sitting around in this woman's flat doing god knows what.

I was browsing the 'other' place two weeks ago and saw someone who i've wanted to see for a while. So i rang her and arranged a late afternoon meet.

I arrive in south London and find the place. I ring her to let me in and she opens the door. She's ok and her body is good, we go upstairs and she takes me into a room it's a dump. Cramped, with boxes everywhere. I sit on the bed and she tells me to relax while she just goes next door. 'next door' was basically the door at the side of the bed that led to what i assumed was the living room. I was already thinking to myself that this is going to be awful,then i heard something that made me just say no way.

I hear two different male voices one of them having a conversation on his phone the other one having a convo with this woman. Now i don't know about some people, but the idea of a guy hearing me having sex while they are basically in the next room put me right off. The idea of two men hearing me was even worse. Especially the idea of how vulnerable i'd be naked if they had bad intentions. Now i've been on punts where the lady has warned beforehand that she has male security on the premises. That's fine as i've been prewarned and i don't see or hear them (If they are actually there in the first place, i have my doubts) and her flat is actually clean, but this was something just too far.

She comes back in and i just couldn't go through with it and did my first ever walkout. She asked me what was wrong and i just said i wasn't really feeling the location and it wasn't her. Felt good to actually walk. No way could i have relaxed.

So would you mind hearing random men who are not punting, while your potentially going to be having a bonk?

I entirely understand your feelings, and I would have walked too. From your vivid description, it sounds to me like she was either being controlled for gain, or at the very least was working (perhaps unwillingly) for a pimp, or even two, male pimps.

Using the purple site, I'm discovering more and more that this seems to be a prevalent syndrome, especially in the south east. It's not something that I'm happy about, I would rather know that the money I hand over is going to the lady herself, and this is why I prefer to know that she is a genuine independent, and not part of some fly by night operation from Eastern Europe, that won't be here next month, and has fingers in God knows what other nefarious dealings.

In the past I have become a regular at some parlours, and have gradually forged a good relationship with the maid/receptionist, but these have always been women, and always been British. That way, I've trusted them, and known that the WG's weren't being exploited. I also felt that my money wasn't destined for the pocket of some Kosovo Albanian criminal. Unfortunately now I've even started to feel uneasy about using parlours, for these same reasons, and like you, I wouldn't want to be in a vulnerable position, with one or more potentially unscrupulous characters in the next room.

Edited by Kayak

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You did the right thing in walking, that would really put me off! I'm surprised the girl didn't realise this.

The whole thing about having a boyfriend there for security really turns me off. I'm fine with another girl being there, but who knows what the situation is with the boyfriend. He could be ok with it, or he could just be telling the girl he's ok with it. If he hears something he doesn't like there's nothing to stop him entering the room and taking it out on you and as you say you're pretty vunerable naked.

Granted there's only a slim chance of anything happening, but personally I couldn't relax in that situation.

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Thats whats put me off seeing girls on the other site. You dont know what your walking into. Prefer girl run parlours

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I entirely understand your feelings, and I would have walked too. From your vivid description, it sounds to me like she was either being controlled for gain, or at the very least was working (perhaps unwillingly) for a pimp, or even two, male pimps.

Using the purple site, I'm discovering more and more that this seems to be a prevalent syndrome, especially in the south east. It's not something that I'm happy about, I would rather know that the money I hand over is going to the lady herself, and this is why I prefer to know that she is a genuine independent, and not part of some fly by night operation from Eastern Europe, that won't be here next month, and has fingers in God knows what other nefarious dealings.

In the past I have become a regular at some parlours, and have gradually forged a good relationship with the maid/receptionist, but these have always been women, and always been British. That way, I've trusted them, and known that the WG's weren't being exploited. I also felt that my money wasn't destined for the pocket of some Kosovo Albanian criminal. Unfortunately now I've even started to feel uneasy about using parlours, for these same reasons, and like you, I wouldn't want to be in a vulnerable position, with one or more potentially unscrupulous characters in the next room.

The truth is as a punter i havent the knowledge to know who is being coerced and/or controlled for gain and who isnt, i can only go on what i see, hear and pickup from others.

A British WG could be being coerced by her partner for all i know whether she is an Indie or not.

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The truth is as a punter i havent the knowledge to know who is being coerced and/or controlled for gain and who isnt, i can only go on what i see, hear and pickup from others.

A British WG could be being coerced by her partner for all i know whether she is an Indie or not.

This may be your point, I wasn't sure so sorry if I'm repeating you, but it's not clear that the law allows ignorance as an excuse. Under the Policing and Crime Act 2009, if a prostitute is being controlled and coerced "subject to force" you can end up in front of a judge. Saying that you didn't or couldn't know she was being forced into prostitution by her pimp may not get you off the charges. This sounds stupid, but compare it to the law on handling stolen goods. If you see another man on the premises acting as "Security" consider the situation carefully before you decide what to do. It's a shame really because I'm sure lots of girls are put off working by the lack of security.

I am not a lawyer, and even if I was the above wouldn't be legal advice.

Edited by tomdavies

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This may be your point, I wasn't sure so sorry if I'm repeating you, but it's not clear that the law allows ignorance as an excuse. Under the Policing and Crime Act 2009, if a prostitute is being controlled and coerced "subject to force" you can end up in front of a judge. Saying that you didn't or couldn't know she was being forced into prostitution by her pimp may not get you off the charges. This sounds stupid, but compare it to the law on handling stolen goods. If you see another man on the premises acting as "Security" consider the situation carefully before you decide what to do. It's a shame really because I'm sure lots of girls are put off working by the lack of security.

I am not a lawyer, and even if I was the above wouldn't be legal advice.

I was making the point that i cant be definate in any circumstances who is or isnt controlled for gain and/or being coerced, it comes down to my judgement which could be wrong. Unless i knew the WG personally i simply havent the knowledge to know these things, whether she works as an Indie or in a parlour or for an agency doesnt change this.

The 2009 act includes a strict liability offence so i would be guilty whether i knew or not in theory. IMO in practice the act is really designed to scare punters off punting, so its scare tactics which dont actually cost much in terms of manpower, its a bark without much of a bite so far anyway.

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Walked? I'd have run like hell! :o:angry:

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I've been in many flats where a man has been present. Maybe two men could be a bit daunting. If the guy looked ok I would go over to him and say " Hello " and put him at ease. Try to look from the other point, he is the ladys security, he may have the baseball bat but you may have the warrant card in your pocket. He maybe equally as nervous as you. He doesn't know who you are . It's not something that bothers me much.

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The truth is as a punter i havent the knowledge to know who is being coerced and/or controlled for gain and who isnt, i can only go on what i see, hear and pickup from others.

A British WG could be being coerced by her partner for all i know whether she is an Indie or not.

You don't have to have "knowledge" to be charged under section 53a of the policing and crime act 2009, it is a strict liability offence.

You rightly suggest it is tough to obtain if you are likely to commit an offence under the legislation, however, you can clearly take some reasonable steps and judgements. Having other "guys" hanging around would clearly be a worrying sign to anyone, both for your own safety as well as the possibility they were hanging around "for gain" or "exploitation".

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I've been in many flats where a man has been present. Maybe two men could be a bit daunting. If the guy looked ok I would go over to him and say " Hello " and put him at ease. Try to look from the other point, he is the ladys security, he may have the baseball bat but you may have the warrant card in your pocket. He maybe equally as nervous as you. He doesn't know who you are . It's not something that bothers me much.

The notion of "security" is interesting.

It would seem in that case a "security" person was in "expectation of gain", say financial, and specifically under the law matches the criteria to enact a charge. If this person enacted "exploitative conduct of a kind likely to induce or encourage a person to provide the sexual services" then in law you wouldn't have a leg to stand on (if you did anyway). You would be subject to criminal conviction as the client. However, can you argue a "security person" is using exploitation to induce or encourage sexual services? I would have thought as "security" that person wouldn't be exploiting a fear of attack to facilitate the provision of the service.

My own logic would be to say anywhere a "security" person is used would make you wholly aware (regardless of strict liability) that you were committing a criminal offence and as such likely to arrest and conviction.

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You don't have to have "knowledge" to be charged under section 53a of the policing and crime act 2009, it is a strict liability offence.

You rightly suggest it is tough to obtain if you are likely to commit an offence under the legislation, however, you can clearly take some reasonable steps and judgements. Having other "guys" hanging around would clearly be a worrying sign to anyone, both for your own safety as well as the possibility they were hanging around "for gain" or "exploitation".

I didnt say i did, what i said was as a punter i havent the knowledge to know whether ANY WG is or isnt being controlled for gain/coerced. She could be being coerced by her partner with him drinking in the pub spending her money for example, if the police turned up and she said she was a prostitute because her partner is forcing her by threat of violence then i as the punter could be in the shit big time even though i had no idea this was her situation. A brothel, 2 or more WGs is illegal but there are many around so like the 2009 act so far, what is the law isnt always what some of the police in certain areas adhere to.

My point is i have no way of knowing the real circumstances of any WG. The less people in the premises the better apart from places like parties where the whole point is there are multiple WGs working and many punters punting. If i get nicked in such a place thats my bad luck.

Edited by smiths

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been to only one girls place and thought there might be someone in the next room, never se girls at there place or parlours, always at my place then im sure we are alone. just think its the best way

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The notion of "security" is interesting.

It would seem in that case a "security" person was in "expectation of gain", say financial, and specifically under the law matches the criteria to enact a charge. If this person enacted "exploitative conduct of a kind likely to induce or encourage a person to provide the sexual services" then in law you wouldn't have a leg to stand on (if you did anyway). You would be subject to criminal conviction as the client. However, can you argue a "security person" is using exploitation to induce or encourage sexual services? I would have thought as "security" that person wouldn't be exploiting a fear of attack to facilitate the provision of the service.

My own logic would be to say anywhere a "security" person is used would make you wholly aware (regardless of strict liability) that you were committing a criminal offence and as such likely to arrest and conviction.

Some maybe many places and WGs have security and you dont see them if they are good at their job unless the lady/establishment feels it necessary so many punters wouldnt know they were there. Again i am not saying this ignorance is any defence.

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been to only one girls place and thought there might be someone in the next room, never se girls at there place or parlours, always at my place then im sure we are alone. just think its the best way

Obviously that suits you, but in 28 years i have never had a punt in my own home as it would be a serious breach of my security in my view.

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Obviously that suits you, but in 28 years i have never had a punt in my own home as it would be a serious breach of my security in my view.

Funnily enough quite a few chaps believe visiting a WGs place is riskier than an outcall to their own home. Partly because they don't want to be 'seen' visiting a 'known WGs house', partly because they've heard the horror stories about some WGs using security to mug clients. What I find even scarier are the guys who think it's even safer to meet in cars!! :blink:

I think everyone's discretion, and safety is up the shoot(or is it chute?) with that situation.

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Funnily enough quite a few chaps believe visiting a WGs place is riskier than an outcall to their own home. Partly because they don't want to be 'seen' visiting a 'known WGs house', partly because they've heard the horror stories about some WGs using security to mug clients. What I find even scarier are the guys who think it's even safer to meet in cars!! :blink:

I think everyone's discretion, and safety is up the shoot(or is it chute?) with that situation.

All depends on your point of view as ever. I couldnt care less about the tiny risk of being seen going into a WGs home and for me its a much smaller risk visiting the ladies premises than her coming to mine.

As to car meets, dodgy on both sides, plus old bill have more of a chance of turning up in my opinion. :)

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I think I'd just go with instinct, if the set-up didn't feel right, I'd walk. Fortunately I haven't been in a situation like that described - there used to be a guy on the front desk at a parlour I visited, but that's all I can bring to mind.

Can't say I'm that bothered by other punters being present, we're there for the same thing, after all!

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If a girl has security It should be discreet, and I don't blame the OP for walking, the girl sounded clueless.

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I booked a girl advertised on the other site last month. I spoke on the phone and was led to beleive she worked alone from a private house. Her profile certainly looked good but she had no feedback at all and was an EE girl working in a town I hadnt visited for many years. I thought I would book up and take a punt as the price was good and she looked very hot, and it was not too many miles away. Anyway it was dark when I arrived and the door was eventually answered by 2 young girls in underwear. It was a terraced house at the top of a busy culdesac. As I entered the dark hallway it soon became apparent that it was an EE brothel and I could hear foreign male voices talking in the living room. I thought it was strange at first, but it was my first punt away from MK agencies, so I decided to go with the flow and was led upstairs to a dimly lit room. Under normal circumstances I would have walked, but decided to stick with it, as I found it quite exciting and the girl was absolutely gorgeous, even though she hardly spoke English. I noticed that there was a key in the inside of the door, but never bothered to lock it, even though it did cross my mind to do so. To cut a long story short, I just got on with the punt and had a supurb time, and one of the best punts I have had, and at a really good price! I even overstayed by 30 minutes [free] and had after shag smokes with her [it made a very pleasent change]. I have been back since and not even noticed the voices from the living room. My attitude is that I am a regular paying customer, so why would they want to hassle me. I took a risk, but went with my instincts and I am glad I did. Sometime thats the best way !:) :) B)

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The notion of "security" is interesting.

It would seem in that case a "security" person was in "expectation of gain", say financial, and specifically under the law matches the criteria to enact a charge. If this person enacted "exploitative conduct of a kind likely to induce or encourage a person to provide the sexual services" then in law you wouldn't have a leg to stand on (if you did anyway). You would be subject to criminal conviction as the client. However, can you argue a "security person" is using exploitation to induce or encourage sexual services? I would have thought as "security" that person wouldn't be exploiting a fear of attack to facilitate the provision of the service.

My own logic would be to say anywhere a "security" person is used would make you wholly aware (regardless of strict liability) that you were committing a criminal offence and as such likely to arrest and conviction.

As Smiths says, many places and WG's have security. I tend to believe that in most of these cases the security is just that, and exists to protect the establishment and the girl(s) rather than force them to work against their will.

I think that you are wrong in suggesting that we should assume that "establishments" that employ security personnel are coercing or forcing the girls that work there.

Disregarding for the time being the strict liability element of the new section 53A offence, I think that it's reasonable for me to assume that if a girl says that she has security at her premises, that the security is there for her benefit. Clearly if the circumstances indicate to the contrary, that presumption can be negated.

I don't think that anyone is "likely" to be convicted. Even if the so-called "security" was engaged in exploitative conduct, the actual chances of the punter being convicted of the new offence are negligible.

Next week section 53A will have been in force for a year. In December 2008 we were advised that the police expected to prosecute 300 men a year under the new law. The figure was contained in the Home Office impact assessments produced to accompany the Policing and Crime Reduction Bill.

Last August the Guardian revealed that:

"Sources at the Metropolitan police and the Crown Prosecution Service said only three men have been cautioned for going with prostitutes who were coerced or threatened into working, since it became a criminal offence in April 2009 (sic)."

"Detectives said the maximum £1,000 fine for "paying for the sexual services of a prostitute subjected to force" means there is little incentive to dedicate resources to it and said it is difficult to prove that prostitutes are being coerced and exploited."

A year on, I'm not aware of anyone actually having been convicted of the new offence. I expect that a handful of punters have been cajoled into accepting a simple caution. I also suspect that the majority of those would have got NFA'd if they called the bluff of both the CPS and the police.

The fact is that the new offence is just not fit for purpose.

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