elrond

Interesting research about to be published about migrant sex workers

18 posts in this topic

Sounds like a fine piece of work with respectable academic credentials! It's good to see the conclusions come out on our side, too! :P

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Want to bet that the Feminazis are working hard to undermine it as we speak?

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Guys while this may be off interest to us, it is a bit like preaching to the converted.

Do you really think the actuall decision makers will take one blind bit of notice. They tend to introduce policies based on their own view of morality rather than evidence of what works what is best for vunerable people.

I can't see research doing one blind bit of difference, if people continue to vote as they do.

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no doubt though that if the research revealed what the govt wanted,it would be a major news story with supporting sound bites from religious fanatics,

politicians and members of the feminazi party

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I know this is preaching to the converted. On the plus sides is the research was sponsored by the Government. It has already been mentioned in the Lords. The full publication will be ready for when the Lords reconvenes.

Additionally the reasearch into the Home office estimate of 4000 trafficked women is out in the public domain. I gave a link to what stephen patterson said about it. Interesting comments in that paper I saw were.

The estimate was based on the Big Brothel project, assumes most women in London walkups and parlours are trafficked, and then uses the figures from the McCoys guide to estimate trafficking across Britain.

If you want a copy of the document, then PM me please.

The Pentameter 1 was running when the review was written. The number of cases found in Pentameter 1 led to the comment in the document of .

This chapter estimates that there were 4,000 women in the UK in 2003 who have trafficked for sexual exploitation. Experience from operation Pentameter, which is likely to have recovered fewer than 100 victims, suggests that this is an upper bound estimate.

This is all ammunition and will be used by the opposition in the Lords. It is also stuff you can use when you write to the papers or argue on CIF, or write to your MP or write to the Lords.

Sitting back and saying, oh every bodies mind is made up is not an option. The Femnazis are not sitting back, they will continue until the purchase of sexual services is completley banned in this country and every country.

http://www.demandchange.org.uk/

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Sitting back and saying, oh every bodies mind is made up is not an option. The Femnazis are not sitting back, they will continue until the purchase of sexual services is completley banned in this country and every country.

Not to mention the fact that 1. they are sexist towards men and 2.they are women supremacists and women separatists that have a vision of a all woman society with women having all the jobs, women have all the rights and women in charge of everything while having men with no rights what so ever and either locked in prisons or homes and are banned from public.

Basically they want to put men through what men put women through throughout the centuries when women had no rights or say on anything at all though you can thank religions for that.

I think another way to combat them will be to get sane feminists that supports sexual freedom (including sex-positive feminists of course) and believe that men and women are equal n matter what to reach out to educate as many people as possible about the true form of feminism.

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Not to mention the fact that 1. they are sexist towards men and 2.they are women supremacists and women separatists that have a vision of a all woman society with women having all the jobs, women have all the rights and women in charge of everything while having men with no rights what so ever and either locked in prisons or homes and are banned from public.

Basically they want to put men through what men put women through throughout the centuries when women had no rights or say on anything at all though you can thank religions for that.

I think another way to combat them will be to get sane feminists that supports sexual freedom (including sex-positive feminists of course) and believe that men and women are equal n matter what to reach out to educate as many people as possible about the true form of feminism.

There's a line from The Who's 'Won't Get Fooled Again' that keeps coming to mind: "Meet the new boss - same as the old boss!"

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Guys while this may be off interest to us, it is a bit like preaching to the converted.

Do you really think the actuall decision makers will take one blind bit of notice. They tend to introduce policies based on their own view of morality rather than evidence of what works what is best for vunerable people.

I can't see research doing one blind bit of difference, if people continue to vote as they do.

Sadly I agree.

Adopted policy and expert opinion frequently do not align as we know here, and in the sacking of Nutt. What's more politicians can rationalise occasionally not listening to expert advice by drawing on many examples from history where it proved to be the right thing to do such as the adoption of shipping convoys in WWI.

As we saw with Sentamu, their minds are completely closed. People work from their original premises, and confirmation bias means they only see the evidence they want to see that fits their prejudice.

Our premise is that prostitution will always be with us and simply needs to be managed. Theirs is that it is inherently exploitative and needs to be stopped. They have power so they will use that to further their policies with new law. Ironically in doing so they will not only fail to stop it, it but also actually make it much more susceptible to exploitation.

We may have the experts on our side but the truth is that most media stories and politicians comments are on theirs, partly because of the stigma associated with prostitution.

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I wonder what Poppycock and Harridan are going to say when they see that this almost totally underlines what we have been saying and our, informed, approach to what should be put in place.

Key findings:

  • the large majority of interviewed migrant workers in the UK sex industry are not forced nor trafficked,




  • immigration status is by far the most important factor restricting their ability to exercise their rights in their professional and private lives,
  • working in the sex industry is often a way for migrants to avoid the unrewarding and sometimes exploitative conditions they meet in non-sexual jobs.


  • by working in the sex industry, many interviewees are able to maintain dignified living standards in the UK while dramatically improving the living conditions of their families in the country of origin,


  • the stigmatisation of sex work is the main problem interviewees experienced while working in the sex industry and this impacted negatively on both their private and professional lives,


  • the combination of the stigmatisation of sex work and lack of legal immigration documentation makes interviewees more vulnerable to violence and crime,


  • interviewees generally describe relations with their employers and clients as characterised by mutual consent and respect, although some reported problematic clients and employers, who were disrespectful, aggressive or abusive,


  • the impossibility of guaranteeing indefinite leave to remain to victims of trafficking undermines the efforts of the police and other authorities against criminal organisations,


  • most interviewees feel that the criminalisation of clients will not stop the sex industry and that it would be pushed underground, making it more difficult for migrants working in the UK sex industry to assert their rights in relation to both clients and employers,


  • All interviewees thought that decriminalising sex work and the people involved and making it easier for all migrants to become and remain documented would improve their living and working conditions and enable them to exercise their rights more fully.



The research underlines that the current emphasis on trafficking and exploitation to explain the variety of the trajectories of migrants into the UK sex industry risks concealing their individual and shared vulnerabilities and strengths, the understanding of which could form the basis of more effective social interventions.

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The report's support for allowing trafficked sex workers to stay in the UK creates an incentive for a woman to say that she has been trafficked, which could in turn lead to the unfair conviction of punters under clause 13.

I read Lords Hansard where it deals with the report. The arguments against strict liability were put with great force and skill. It is surprising, and worrying, that Baroness Miller withdrew LibDem support for the removal of strict liability in the recent debate.

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The report's support for allowing trafficked sex workers to stay in the UK creates an incentive for a woman to say that she has been trafficked, which could in turn lead to the unfair conviction of punters under clause 13.

I read Lords Hansard where it deals with the report. The arguments against strict liability were put with great force and skill. It is surprising, and worrying, that Baroness Miller withdrew LibDem support for the removal of strict liability in the recent debate.

I loved Lord Desai's argument:

"Let us consider the very sad case of the Chinese workers who died in Morecambe Bay. They were trafficked and worked as winkle-pickers or whatever it was. Somebody was going to make a material gain from having trafficked them. If they had not died, the person who bought what they had collected from the sea would have been guilty of buying something produced by trafficked labour. It would be very sad if that person was prosecuted for, as it were, valorising the exploitation of Chinese workers.

The same applies here. Someone is hiring women to supply a service for his or her gain. Someone goes and buys the service, not necessarily knowing the nature of the supply. I think that we should concentrate on the supplier and punish him for doing this for gain rather than punishing the consumer, who need not know that he has bought a dodgy service."

Quite right. Are they going to fine anyone who buys cockles from Morecambe bay?

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Channel 4 news had a big item on ISS, the contarct cleaners, and exploitation of illegal immigrants. Exactly what is described in the research.

As in odysseus quote from Lord Desai the Kingston Hospital trust members are "strictly liable"

Indie

BBC

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Channel 4 news had a big item on ISS, the contarct cleaners, and exploitation of illegal immigrants. Exactly what is described in the research.

As in odysseus quote from Lord Desai the Kingston Hospital trust members are "strictly liable"

Indie

BBC

As the charges are mainly criminal ones, does that mean we will see the Hospital Management Board doing gaol time?

Comments Harriet?

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I wonder what Poppycock and Harridan are going to say when they see that this almost totally underlines what we have been saying and our, informed, approach to what should be put in place.

They are not going to say anything! Their "minds" are completely closed to anything that does not fully support their own views.

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Sounds like a fine piece of work with respectable academic credentials! It's good to see the conclusions come out on our side, too! :cool:

I wonder why you assume that academics are any more likely to get truthful replies, from truly trafficked victims, than are any other 'interrogators'. I am reminded of the book, 'Coming of Age in Samoa' which was, for many years, hailed as being a masterpiece of sociology (and seized upon by sex-loving students). It is now known that Margaret Mead was somewhat of a gullible klutz, and that the 'innocent' natives told her a pack of lies (apparently for fun).

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