Coventrypunter

what to do if you suspect underage or trafficked girl

27 posts in this topic

on http://www.punternet.com/frs/fr_search.php it says clearly

Have you been offered an underage girl?

Do you suspect that a girl you have seen is being forced to work against her will?

Report child prostitution and sex slavery - ring Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111

You, the punters, CAN make a difference - Click here for a short film from Crimestoppers about trafficking

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on http://www.punternet.com/frs/fr_search.php it says clearly

Have you been offered an underage girl?

Do you suspect that a girl you have seen is being forced to work against her will?

Report child prostitution and sex slavery - ring Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111

You, the punters, CAN make a difference - Click here for a short film from Crimestoppers about trafficking

Good one Kinks.

Path very clear. Unless some burly git in the room with you, watching, course of action to report, if you suspect the lady there without choice.

Once you get away from the fictional burly git, report.

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Why "fictional" burly git?

You had a choice of two, one fictional and one non...the non doesn't really do much these days...

The main point, here and only being - upset lady, don't walk away.

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To answer OP question : Be a real man, and be proud that you were/are.

There are many willing ladies, and you know where to find them, so no one has any need or excuse to feed the vermin amongst us.

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To answer OP question : Be a real man, and be proud that you were/are.

There are many willing ladies, and you know where to find them, so no one has any need or excuse to feed the vermin amongst us.

I agree 100%, also the same for underage, or even appearing to be underage, as it just fuels this horrid business. No hesitation contact the Police.

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also sadley some people might well b of age but not mentaly, abuse is abuse ,good on you for bringing a subject not alot want to talk about to the front

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Can only say that I would have no hesitation in reporting IF i was sure that the girl was being exploited against her will. My only reservation would be that she may be illegal. But I am sure one outweighs the other.

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I was browsing `Po**otube' the other day, and one of the adverts they had on the page seemed to feature a suspiciously young looking female.

In a class I had last week I had a huge row with a female student (who shockingly works with young people) about Roman Polanski. I was arguing that is it despicable that Hollywood big-wigs are defending him (not to mention The Independent), yet he had anal sex with a 13-year-old.

This irresponsible woman argued to me that "maybe the girl wanted it or looked older".............like WHAT? It doesn't matter she was UNDERAGE, considerably at 13. There is NO excuse for it, even if she did `forgive' him in later years (paid off?). He done the crime and should pay the price like anyone else. No wonder he ran off to France, although he would have been better off in Spain.

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I would quite simply give her the money not to arouse suspicion, call the cops and hand her my mobile right there and then. I might be a punter, I might be even a pervert... doing anything other than helping the girl then and you might as well be abusing her yourself. That is where I draw the line.

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I think many people are right on this thread and the original premise by Bottom Liner is good. At the end of the day, anyone that is being put in a position of coercion into sex is being abused. The question is then about knowledge...

If I had knowledge, even suspicion, a girl was being coerced into sex I would not continue with the punt and find anyway possible to help her. It is my natural instinct as a human being. It is not the trafficking that is an issue as far as I am concerned but the use of force (be it mental, physical or financial) to make another comply. Not taking action when confronted with that situation is co-operation with the abuse.

I think a figure of around 1% may be correct and so far in 9 years of punting I have been unlucky to have only encountered such a situation once. I asked the girl if she was being forced to do this and called the police, I have to say they were absolutely brilliant and were there within 2 minutes. The "boyfriend" got a long time in jail after pleading guilty saving me the embarassment of admiting being a punter. However the evidence was overwhelming as there were 4 other girls in the same situation. Should I have been called to the stand I would have done the right thing though.

Trafficking is something for the border police as it has been rightly pointed in this thread that this also happens for factory workers, cleaners, etc. This is also a nasty trade with deadly consequences, an example being the cockle pickers in Morecambe Bay.

What I believe is needed is a licensing and regulatory system similar to say Hackney Carriege drivers. Bear with me on this one because I am going to get technical and it does require an open mind, but the parallels of the two industries are uncanny:).

1) First of all there would be a license for the service provider which should be done for a nominal fee of say £10 (it would cover admin costs) and renewable after five years. That would indicate a clear and present intent to do the work, it would have an admin period (for interview, etc) which would act as a cooling off period for anyone who had not really thought it through. It would then issue two cards, one with your real details and one with your "trading" details. Objective - If you get in taxi you want to know the person who is driving you is able to do the job properly, as a punter I want to know the person I am seeing is doing the "job" of free will and that I am safe from prosecution.

2) There would be an "operator" registration for agencies and parlours. This would be more expensive to do as there will be inspection costs. This would basicly mean that the "operator" would undergo some checks to ensure the person managing the business is "fit and proper". Links to sex crime, fraud, violence etc. would exclude such people from becoming operators. There would also be a regime of inspection (not the McCoy's type) to ensure that common sense management standards are being maintained i.e. that the operator is checking ID and provider licenses, records of refusal either to clients (abusive/stupid requests) or girls who may be underage/illegal immigrants. Objective - I as punter can go to a registered agency/parlour with confidence that what is happening there is above board like when you ring up for a taxi you know that they will be sending somebody that is qualified to drive that taxi.

3) Local councils to run the system - Councils already have the expertise in licensing taxis and mini-cabs, and alcohol licensing and are gaining the ability on casinos. Why re-invent the wheel, and you can also justify that your fees are ensuring external costs to the community are minimised

This would incur costs on the industry but I as a punter, and any decent punter out there, would be willing to pay that extra for the peace of mind it brings. However it would not be a guarantee of a good punt like you have no guarantee that a taxi driver will be silent and miserable or pleasantly chatty.

It would also require changes in legislation but I think if it is pushed at grass roots it is achievable. I think that opinions on the sex industry have changed dramaticly over the past ten years and if the industry takes on the initiative to compromise, be open and more transparent the general population would reciprocate.

I would suggest writing (e-mail) to local councillors in order to actually be heard. They have their hears much closer to the ground and are generally more receptive. I've already done that with one of mine who is a Lib Dem, and he was really receptive. He also was very encouraging and suggested ideas that would force local councils to at least debate it. Mine is from Milton Keynes and apparantly the public can do a deputation (it is like a petition but only requires 20 signatures) and that would force the councillors to include it in their work programme.

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I agree with Kinky and Photonut.....!!x

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Whilst I have always agreed that you should walk if in any doubt as to age or willingness of the lady - right now it is important for your own sake that you do.

The "Policing and Crime Bill 2008-2009" received Royal Assent on Thursday 12th November and is thus now an Act of Parliament - otherwise known as the LAW.

This act has created a strict liability offence with regard to paying for sex with someone who is coerced. Strict Liability means there is no defence. Only mitigation. If you did it then you are guilty. Full stop.

You may also like to know that you don't actually have to have sex. The act states

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if

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I notice on lbb that they advertise redline as a place to report trafficking

http://redlineuk.org

Does anyone know anything about this organisation. There is not alot on the site to id them.

The advantage of using them to report trafficking is in their own words.

RedlineUK subjects each report to analysis using an experienced investigator and if necessary analytical software. This helps identify additional work and allows the screening of malicious and false reports. When RedlineUK is satisfied that a report has sufficient information and justification only then will the relevant enforcement agency be briefed as to the information that RedlineUK has collected.

Answered my own question when I did a search of the forum.

http://www.punternet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24455&highlight=redline

Edited by elrond
Found the information

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having read elronds post and the linked thread, I still think the correct response it to phone crimespotters.

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@Elrond 19.23 today, quote from RedlineUK website:

'RedlineUK subjects each report to analysis using an experienced investigator and if necessary analytical software. This helps identify additional work and allows the screening of malicious and false reports. When RedlineUK is satisfied that a report has sufficient information and justification only then will the relevant enforcement agency be briefed as to the information that RedlineUK has collected'

I do find that very curious. Is the implication that they get a lot of malicious reports? And that they investigate by computer rather than taking a look? I can't say I find this very reassuring.

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"Adderz" the admin off LBB has more of a passing interest in the industry than many would prefer. He is involved in the production of a myriad of sites offering sexual services and openly prides himself in his ability to trace and identify posters on any of his forums. Who and what is Redline? Your guess is probably as good as mine.

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I do find that very curious. Is the implication that they get a lot of malicious reports? And that they investigate by computer rather than taking a look? I can't say I find this very reassuring.

I have been thinking very carefully about reporting of underage and coerced women working in the industry.

My first, prevailing and overriding consideration would be to report the problem to the police or crimestoppers. The saftey and human rights of the women working in the industry is paramount.

But: and here is the nub of the problem that is caused by current law. What if I get it wrong, report a problem that actually isn't a problem, and then cause the brothel to be investigated, closed down and prosecuted for nothing other than running a brothel. That would cause hardship as well. Could cause women to be deported who are working here voluntarily.

Of course it now gets even worse with the new legislation, in that I too would be laying myself open to prosecution. As happened to that man who handed in a shot gun he found in his garden.

It does sound a good idea that a sex work supportive organisation could make a preliminary investiation before the police became involved. The advantage would be I would not be worried about blowing the whistle and making a false accusation in good faith.

So I am supportive of the concept of Redline, but when there is nothing to identify who they are, yes i do get worried. There needs to be a bit more openness and I also think it should be under the umbrella of some 'respectable sex work organisation'

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isnt that a role SAAFE could do?

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I am also concerned about the origins and motives of Redline. For all we know it could be a front for persons involved in organised crime and forced prostitution and then by informing them of any suspicious activity we could be assisting them in evading the law. I would certainly feel happier using the crimestoppers route if I felt that the old bill would do an honest and fair job of protecting vunerable girls rather than just pandering to politicians and boosting conviction figures.

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I am also concerned about the origins and motives of Redline. For all we know it could be a front for persons involved in organised crime and forced prostitution and then by informing them of any suspicious activity we could be assisting them in evading the law.

My thoughts exactly. Those in the "know" would have an early warning system and the whistle blower might regret he clicked on the banner. Stick with organisations that are open, upfront and answerable.

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As happened to that man who handed in a shot gun he found in his garden.

That story was not all it was reported, the guy had a history with the local police.

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its a tricky one! because the set up with parlors is a look-see and choose, you do not realy speak to the girls until you are in the room. then you realise. i would probably say, let the police know, but only if you are completly sure. if you have reservations dont. but if you have used the parlor for a while, you would know... i know you lads dont go in with your brains erected, but gut instint will tell you what is right or wrong...no matter how much war paint the girls have on x

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Agree with Kinky1956.

It has to be crimestoppers

Any private organisation / person could have other motives.

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I've luckily never been in that situation, but I would think very carefully about contacting the police, as a punter you are an easier target to put behind bars than the local organized crime ring.

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