RightsNotWrongs

Criminalisation In Scotland

50 posts in this topic

Good afternoon all.

It was confirmed to us at Scot-PEP last week, by one of the leading abolitionists, that the intention to press ahead with the criminalisation of the purchase and sale of sex will continue in the new Parliament. With Ms. Godman’s retiral, it is not clear who will take that job on. However, we were told that it will be someone experienced and that “it” (presumably the criminalisation) “should not be a problem”.

So… it won’t be a problem, yeah? We at Scot-PEP think differently, indeed we intend to make it as much of a problem as we possibly can, just as we did last year when they tried the same nonsense. However, in order to do so, we need your help. We are an entirely voluntary organisation, dependent on the energies and time of committed individuals. Thus we need help.... lots of it.

The debate in the coming months will be about you, whether client or worker. It will be about your lifestyle and your means of support. We need you to help YOU prevail.

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Good afternoon all.

It was confirmed to us at Scot-PEP last week, by one of the leading abolitionists, that the intention to press ahead with the criminalisation of the purchase and sale of sex will continue in the new Parliament. With Ms. Godman’s retiral, it is not clear who will take that job on. However, we were told that it will be someone experienced and that “it” (presumably the criminalisation) “should not be a problem”.

So… it won’t be a problem, yeah? We at Scot-PEP think differently, indeed we intend to make it as much of a problem as we possibly can, just as we did last year when they tried the same nonsense. However, in order to do so, we need your help. We are an entirely voluntary organisation, dependent on the energies and time of committed individuals. Thus we need help.... lots of it.

The debate in the coming months will be about you, whether client or worker. It will be about your lifestyle and your means of support. We need you to help YOU prevail.

How can we help? I can already see problems here in Edinburgh, and they are to my disadvantage as well as making things worse for the workers. Its a practical problem, can we help and remain anonymous? I and I suppose others don't want to be 'outed'.

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How can we help? I can already see problems here in Edinburgh, and they are to my disadvantage as well as making things worse for the workers. Its a practical problem, can we help and remain anonymous? I and I suppose others don't want to be 'outed'.

In short, yes you can help anonymously.

If a new bill is drafted and proposed then you can submit a response to the parliament without giving

your real name or address. You can also write a letter to the press anonymously too. :)

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though i live in england,i've written in the past re scottish criminalisation and so am willing to write again to help protect scotlands sex workers from any proposed dangerous legislation.i'm sure that many others too will join in supporting scottish sex workers

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though i live in england,i've written in the past re scottish criminalisation and so am willing to write again to help protect scotlands sex workers from any proposed dangerous legislation.i'm sure that many others too will join in supporting scottish sex workers

Wot 'ee sed.

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How can we help? I can already see problems here in Edinburgh, and they are to my disadvantage as well as making things worse for the workers. Its a practical problem, can we help and remain anonymous? I and I suppose others don't want to be 'outed'.

Contact me on here, or directly at Scot-PEP. :)

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Good afternoon all.

It was confirmed to us at Scot-PEP last week, by one of the leading abolitionists, that the intention to press ahead with the criminalisation of the purchase and sale of sex will continue in the new Parliament. With Ms. Godman’s retiral, it is not clear who will take that job on. However, we were told that it will be someone experienced and that “it” (presumably the criminalisation) “should not be a problem”.

... ...

We need you to help YOU prevail.

I have been trying to extract from the Lord Advocate the equivalent guidance to prosecutors that is published extensively on the web by CPS in England, with minimal success. What I have had disclosed is a document entitled:

"Lord Advocate's Guidelines to Chief Constables on the enforcement of prostitution related offences.", which bears the (printed) signature of Elish Angiolini QC, the Lord Advocate, who was appointed, I think, by the previous, Labour, Scottish Government, but kept on by the SNP. She comes, I'm pretty sure, from a Glasgow Catholic background with all the prejudices that that involves.

What shocks me is that she sees fit to enter the policy field, rather than simply doing her duty in telling the Police what evidence her Fiscals will be looking for in respect of what offences. She does this, initially, in paras 2 & 3, as follows:

2. Prostitution represents an insidious form of abuse of women. Those involved are not only degraded by the act itself but are exposed to a significant risk of non-consensual sexual and physical abuse. For the communities in which prostitution takes place, the activity can represent a significant nuisance and potential danger. Residents and workers are exposed to prostitution related paraphernalia and the threat of being approached by those seeking prostitution related services.

3. Those working in the justice system must aim, in the long term, to eradicate prostitution related activity, but neither the root causes of street prostitution nor its consequences can be tackled effectively by the police and prosecutors alone. Law enforcement is only one constituent of the broader, concerted approach.

(If anybody wants a copy of the .pdf of the full thing, please PM me with an e-mail address, and I'll send it on forthwith.)

With this sort of value judgment prejudice built into the system, it'll be an up hill struggle to resist them.

First step, next thursday is to vote, with care, for whichever party in each of our constituencies, and lists, has the best chance of keeping labour out of power. While in the constituency this will very rarely be Conservative, on the Lists, due to the interesting way our variety of PR seems to work, I think that there Conservative could be the right choice!

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Interesting.

Isn't Eilish Angiolini standing down?

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Interesting.

Isn't Eilish Angiolini standing down?

Isn't she named as part of the 'Holly Greig' scandal ?

Edited by Melanieabz

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As an Anglo-Scot living in Wales, can I just say that Scotland's fight is our fight, both as a matter of principle and as one of informed self-interest. There is no doubt that if client criminalisation is adopted in Scotland, there will be enormous pressure at Westminster to adopt it throughout the UK and usher in a new era of McCarthyism, or should that be Mactaggartism?

I can see it now: "Are you, or have you ever been, in a commercial relationship with...." etc.

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Hmm

scots want devolution but now want the English to help change scottish law.

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Hmm

scots want devolution but now want the English to help change scottish law.

We've had that one several times on here. Let's keep the issues separate. We've had that one several times on here.

For now be very certain the alliance of mostly godless fems, and the religious control freaks(both RC and Prod) are not going to give up.

If they can get sustenance from beyond the British Isles (Sweden et al) a win North of the Border will have a big effect in England and Wales.

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Hmm

scots want devolution but now want the English to help change scottish law.

Actually, we've had devolution for 12 years now. Do keep up :P

However, the point has been made. If criminalisation happens here, you can be sure that Westminster will use that as a justification for following suit.

For the record, we already have support and offers of help from New Zealand, the US, Sweden, India and England.

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Yes, she's stepping down after the elction, last para under Lord Advocate here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elish_Angiolini

Much will depend on her replacement.

Thanks, Melanie! I'd completely missed that. Even more reason to dread the possibility of a labour victory. Ladies all over Scotland need to urge their clients to vote, and to vote against Labour!

Significant where she chose to announce her departure:

The Lord Advocate, Rt Hon Elish Angiolini, QC, has today addressed the annual Sexual Offences Conference in Glasgow, a conference of prosecutors, police, forensic specialists and those involved in the investigation of sexual offences.

http://copfs.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/10/01103319

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Thanks, Melanie! I'd completely missed that. Even more reason to dread the possibility of a labour victory. Ladies all over Scotland need to urge their clients to vote, and to vote against Labour!

Significant where she chose to announce her departure:

http://copfs.gov.uk/News/Releases/2010/10/01103319

Just done a search for "Holly Grieg" and skimmed the results. What a tangled tale!

Leaves a feeling that my quip on devolution that it for people who seek a smaller pool to swim in has a grain of truth. But add that it's a murkier and more weeded pool.

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Actually, we've had devolution for 12 years now. Do keep up :P

However, the point has been made. If criminalisation happens here, you can be sure that Westminster will use that as a justification for following suit.

For the record, we already have support and offers of help from New Zealand, the US, Sweden, India and England.

and Wales

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How much suffering is caused to women thro' prostitution compared with that caused by "old firm" matches. After these ritualistic battles the incidence of wife beating increases by about 150%!!! I don't notice the RCs and feminazis calling for the criminalisation of professional football (tho' personally I think it would have its merits). Could someone from the criminalisation of sexual purchases lobby expalin why they don't ban boxing? In sexual purchases the idea is that at least one party obtains enjoyment. In boxing the sole purpose is to batter your opponent senseless.

Clearly some people are completely unable to understand that there are persons who choose of their own free will to offer sexual services and some even enjoy thier job. Personally I can't understand how someone can be so arrogant that they wish to determine how consenting adults behave in private.

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The debate in the coming months will be about you, whether client or worker. It will be about your lifestyle and your means of support. We need you to help YOU prevail.

Some how all escorts have to be motivated to add their voice to this campaign. Many I have spoken too think.

A It won't happen

B If it does, then it will still go on

C There are others fighting their campaign for them

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Some how all escorts have to be motivated to add their voice to this campaign.

indeed,sex workers need to become politicised in order to fight for their rights

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Some how all escorts have to be motivated to add their voice to this campaign. Many I have spoken too think.

A It won't happen

B If it does, then it will still go on

C There are others fighting their campaign for them

Is there any organisation in Scotland? There's Scot-PEP of course, but I know of no IUSW/ECP equivalents.

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Is there any organisation in Scotland? There's Scot-PEP of course, but I know of no IUSW/ECP equivalents.

No, but maybe it's about time we changed that...

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As a start, I would encourage all WG's and punters to vote for whichever party will be most likely to keep Labour out. Obviously this hobby is not the one and only thing that people consider when voting, but I think for many on here it will be a topic close to our hearts :P

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Some how all escorts have to be motivated to add their voice to this campaign. Many I have spoken too think.

A It won't happen

B If it does, then it will still go on

C There are others fighting their campaign for them

Yep, the responses from those against the proposal (39) was extremely disappointing given the amount of info on messageboards about how to respond and direct contact made to many working in the sex industry. There was also the option to go through Scotpep to remain anonymous should anyone have been worried about confidentiality.

Trish Godman and cronies made sure the prohibitionist machine was well oiled and went directly to those they knew have a radical feminist stance and then peddled the misinformation to the religious bodies and bingo, they'll no doubts try and railroad a Bill through (and with the release of the Baroness Kennedy Inquiry into trafficking due in the Summer I wouldn't be suprised if they use that as perfect timing to come up with something). As far as they are concerned the consultation results and added petition makes it appear that a bill would have the backing of the people.

Not sure how many have read through the consultation responses but it's worth doing so.

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Whatever the outcome of the election, something needs to be done to move the minds of the Scottish Labour party (and indeed the Labour party in general of course). I doubt very much whether the Swedish model is in the manifesto, though it may be worth someone looking, and if it's not there it's not a manifesto commitment and there's more hope. All that's needed (I say all, it won't be easy) is to sow sufficient doubt as to the wisdom of the policy.

Scotland has had kerb crawling laws - its first attack on 'demand' - for several years now, and England and Wales have had them since the eighties. Have they worked? No. If they've worked, how come Steve Wright and Stephen Griffiths were able to slay the women they did? They just cause displacement and result in cases like that of Amanda Walker in Leeds - slayed in Paddington, to where she was driven by a kerb crawling drive. Look at Aberdeen, and the havoc kerb crawling laws have created there.

Threads on Punternet are all very well but can only go so far. Surely there's enough sexworkers in Glasgow and/or Edinburgh to form the nucleus of a Scottish IUSW? Why doesn't someone walk into the offices of the GMB there, point out the situation in London and try and get a branch off the ground?

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