flarepath2011

Legalise Brothels?

30 posts in this topic

So the question is 'Why has the government not yet legalised brothels'

Pros:

1. Help to slow down ( it won't stop it ) sex trafficing

2. Punters would know that they are going to a government registered brothel, i.e safer environment, clean sheets, regular inspections

3. Brothels would have government guidelines to follow around sexual health inspections for girls, cleanliness, venting of girls

4. You would know that girls working there WANT to work there and not forced or potentially under age, etc.

5. Government would be making ALOT of money on the tax they would be making, they need the cash

Cons:

1. More expensive - you know this would drive up prices at these new legalised brothels

2. Could increase un-license brothels to cater for the punters who want to pay low prices

3. On point 2 - if YOU got caught at an un-license brothel the law could be much harder on you

4. where would they be? You wouldn't want a legalised brothel next door to your house would you!!!

Anyway just my thoughts....

FlarePath..

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4. where would they be? You wouldn't want a legalised brothel next door to your house would you!!!

You say that but surely it would depend on the type of brothel and how well run it was run? I have had the conversation about public nuisance more times that I care to remember but public nuisance isnt specific to the sex industry... what about pubs, nightclubs, fish and chip shops or betting shops yet plenty of people live next door, above or close to these. The issue is more about stigma imo and as much as I can quite understand not many would want brothels in residential area's, they wouldnt need to be.

I would whole heartedly support legalisation. The issue is that not unsimilar to prohibition and imo all the arguments put forward for not legalising them are exactly the reasons why they should be. Trafficking is the biggest argument put forward by authorities I have spoken to about legalisation, thier argument is that often it is very difficult to tell that a women is trafficked as they dont want people to know, usually under threat to thier families. The Anti's argue that brothels create a haven for traffickers to bring women over and put them into brothels with even consciencious owners not realising the women were trafficked and on that basis they should remain illegal and be shut down. My response has always been and remains that surely if brothels were legalised and police able to work directly with those in the industry brothels could remain and could help stem this problem rather than be part of it as the authorities suggest.

Its a bit like banging your head against a brick wall though and its a hot potatoe many in government dont want to touch. The public I dont think are really an issue though, in my public outing I was amazed how many people sympathised with my situation, many telling me they couldnt believe it was all illegal. That sadly doesnt change the fact that our government are dealing with tough times and were I might have considered the lib dems might pick up the issue, I dont think they will now as they would be terrified of loosing more public support.

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Of course the pros outweight the cons or at the very least the arguments stack up that the current laws need improving to protect WGs. My understanding is that it's a questions of politics though so when successive governments have order a review and comparison to the laws in other countries they are unable to implement the changes their reviews suggest because there is no political will to be associated as a political party with prostitution or sex in general.

I remember when the draft young liberal manifesto included "rationalising" sex laws (eg can have sex at 16 but not see porn till 18) as well as reforming lass of prostitution they were sternly told by senior party members to exclude these topics as it wouldn't help in getting the public to see the liberals as a sensible party.

As for the follow up question of how you either get politicians to disregard public opinion and seriously review the laws or get the public to be more mature and approach the topic seriously I have no idea.

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So the question is 'Why has the government not yet legalised brothels'

Pros:

1. Help to slow down ( it won't stop it ) sex trafficing

2. Punters would know that they are going to a government registered brothel, i.e safer environment, clean sheets, regular inspections

3. Brothels would have government guidelines to follow around sexual health inspections for girls, cleanliness, venting of girls

4. You would know that girls working there WANT to work there and not forced or potentially under age, etc.

5. Government would be making ALOT of money on the tax they would be making, they need the cash

Cons:

1. More expensive - you know this would drive up prices at these new legalised brothels

2. Could increase un-license brothels to cater for the punters who want to pay low prices

3. On point 2 - if YOU got caught at an un-license brothel the law could be much harder on you

4. where would they be? You wouldn't want a legalised brothel next door to your house would you!!!

Anyway just my thoughts....

FlarePath..

Another one for 'con':- Due of the heavy taxation which would make it more expensive resulting in WGs not earning as much would mean that alot of them would leave the industry and the quality of the girls would decline.

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Another one for 'con':- Due of the heavy taxation which would make it more expensive resulting in WGs not earning as much would mean that alot of them would leave the industry and the quality of the girls would decline.

I think you would be suprised to find that many wg's already pay tax. Im not going to get into the debate as to weather they declare EVERY appointment they do but not unsimilar to most builders, plumbers, mechanics etc etc. if the odd appointment went missing its not going to be the end of the world and on that basis not much would change (if anything). Further to that brothels dont employ thier girls they act as agents so the responsibility for paying tax for the girls would remain with the girls. Anyone not paying tax is taking a risk that they will eventually get caught, just because brothels were legalised, the risk of not paying tax would remain the same... some will chose (as they do now if they do) that the risk is worth taking.

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there is no political will to be associated as a political party with prostitution or sex in general.

Hit the nail on the head there.

As with legalisng drugs, the Daily Mail (and all it represents) would not stand for it.

Imagine being a candidate at a General Election for a party that had even just said they would consider legalising brothels - the local press and your political opponents would crucify you.

Edited by Vin DaLoo

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Hit the nail on the head there.

As with legalisng drugs, the Daily Mail (and all it represents) would not stand for it.

Imagine being a candidate at a General Election for a party that had even just said they would consider legalising brothels - the local press and your political opponents would crucify you.

Presumably it could be done with cross-party agreement. They legalised brothels in New Zealand not so long ago and I imagine that is how it got through. Perhaps Sabrina of York who worked out there for a while could comment on this.

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Presumably it could be done with cross-party agreement. They legalised brothels in New Zealand not so long ago and I imagine that is how it got through. Perhaps Sabrina of York who worked out there for a while could comment on this.

the prostitution reform act (nz) passed by just one vote, 60-59

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_New_Zealand

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So the question is 'Why has the government not yet legalised brothels'

Pros:

1. Help to slow down ( it won't stop it ) sex trafficing

2. Punters would know that they are going to a government registered brothel, i.e safer environment, clean sheets, regular inspections

3. Brothels would have government guidelines to follow around sexual health inspections for girls, cleanliness, venting of girls

4. You would know that girls working there WANT to work there and not forced or potentially under age, etc.

5. Government would be making ALOT of money on the tax they would be making, they need the cash

Cons:

1. More expensive - you know this would drive up prices at these new legalised brothels

2. Could increase un-license brothels to cater for the punters who want to pay low prices

3. On point 2 - if YOU got caught at an un-license brothel the law could be much harder on you

4. where would they be? You wouldn't want a legalised brothel next door to your house would you!!!

Anyway just my thoughts....

FlarePath..

Brothels are obviously illegal but dependent on the attitudes of the top police in any given area allowed to operate. I find this an odd thing, why do some let them operate.

After reading providers posts on here some say they are a good source of police intelligence and its so easy for the police to check on them when they wish which i assume suits the police and is why they allow them to operate. I think this informal but at a blink of an eye everything could change set-up suits the police and perhaps having brothels is the lesser of two evils, if brothels were closed down the police might think it would lead to more street prostitution causing them more work.

It is of great interest to me that we have the 2009 act and all the rubbish spouted by Harriet Harridan and her ilk to push it through showing they are anti-prostitution yet brothels already illegal were and are still open. Being a punter i am glad they werent targeted and closed of course, i punt at some still, but if i were anti-prostitution and had the power i would of zoned in on eradicating brothels. I dont think the general public would care and many would probably agree with getting rid of them.

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Hit the nail on the head there.

As with legalisng drugs, the Daily Mail (and all it represents) would not stand for it.

Imagine being a candidate at a General Election for a party that had even just said they would consider legalising brothels - the local press and your political opponents would crucify you.

I agree with you, but in some areas brothels are allowed to operate with police discretion/permission of course despite being illegal, what i dont understand is why the media dont ask the MPs in these areas why the police are allowing the law to be broken and why the MP doesnt pledge to ensure brothels wont be tolerated in his or her constituency. So the local press and political opponents have an issue to cruxify the MP with yet i very rarely hear about this issue. I find it very strange.

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Brothels are obviously illegal but dependent on the attitudes of the top police in any given area allowed to operate. I find this an odd thing, why do some let them operate.

In many areas I think that it's to keep girls off the streets.

Several police forces are fairly open about tolerating brothels.

Gwent police in Newport very openly tolerate brothels:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11411069

"A senior police officer in Newport, the host city of golf's Ryder Cup, says his force tolerates brothels as long as they follow strict criteria."

"Premises are tolerated as long as they do not use people who are illegal or have been trafficked, under the age of 18, have no illegal drugs, and do not generate complaints of noise, nuisance or anti-social behaviour. Failure to comply will result in closure."

Neighbouring South Wales police are also tolerant in Cardiff and Swansea, but not in the South Wales valleys where I think that the local councils must have a greater influence.

Avon & Somerset police also tolerate brothels in Bristol, but just up the M5 in Gloucester/Cheltenham, they are not tolerated by Gloucestershire police. Consequently they seem to have a lot more problem with trafficking/coerced girls in Gloucester and Cheltenham than in the whole of the Bristol area.

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An overhaul of the law would be troubling, too many people would shout their opinions, questions of licensing and fees to councils would arise, what's a suitable area etc. All seems a headache.

I would like to see a repeal of the law that says it's a crime for 2 or more harlots to share premises for safety, security and company. If only it were so easy, I'm not legally knowledgeable, but I doubt there's one single law in one statute, that could be discreetly repealed to achieve this.

It would certainly be a good one for the Lib Dems to run with imo.

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In many areas I think that it's to keep girls off the streets.

Several police forces are fairly open about tolerating brothels.

Gwent police in Newport very openly tolerate brothels:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11411069

"A senior police officer in Newport, the host city of golf's Ryder Cup, says his force tolerates brothels as long as they follow strict criteria."

"Premises are tolerated as long as they do not use people who are illegal or have been trafficked, under the age of 18, have no illegal drugs, and do not generate complaints of noise, nuisance or anti-social behaviour. Failure to comply will result in closure."

Neighbouring South Wales police are also tolerant in Cardiff and Swansea, but not in the South Wales valleys where I think that the local councils must have a greater influence.

Avon & Somerset police also tolerate brothels in Bristol, but just up the M5 in Gloucester/Cheltenham, they are not tolerated by Gloucestershire police. Consequently they seem to have a lot more problem with trafficking/coerced girls in Gloucester and Cheltenham than in the whole of the Bristol area.

Indeed, the lessor of the two evils i mentioned in a previous post. Its just weird to me that the anti-prostitution lobby dont pressure MPs that have brothels in their areas and local media to get brothels closed down. If i were a feminazi i would see this area as ripe to exploit for my cause. :)

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I'm not legally knowledgeable, but I doubt there's one single law in one statute, that could be discreetly repealed to achieve this. It would certainly be a good one for the Lib Dems to run with imo.
A brothel is defined as "a place where people of opposite sexes (but see paragraph below) are allowed to resort for illicit intercourse, whether the women are common prostitutes or not". It is not essential to show that the premises are in fact used for the purposes of prostitution (which involves payment for services rendered); a brothel exists where women offer sexual intercourse without charging. (Winter v Woolfe [1931] KB 549).

...

Premises only become a brothel when more than one woman uses premises for the purposes of prostitution, either simultaneously or one at a time (Stevens v Christy [1987] Cr. App. R. 249, DC). This implies that if two women are present, both must be there for the purposes of prostitution. In circumstances where prostitutes are working individually out of one flat but there is a rotation of occupants and the young women are moved on a regular basis; i.e. sole occupancy and a rotation of sole occupants, it does constitute a brothel.

Or, if you have the time, go to http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/prostitution_and_exploitation_of_prostitution/ where you'll read some 7,000 words of useful information and guidance on the law and its enforcement in England & Wales - here in Scotland the Lord Advocate, a labour appointed, West of Scotland female, reveals NOTHING!

Edited by Irgendeiner

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Indeed, the lessor of the two evils i mentioned in a previous post. Its just weird to me that the anti-prostitution lobby dont pressure MPs that have brothels in their areas and local media to get brothels closed down. If i were a feminazi i would see this area as ripe to exploit for my cause. :)

For God's sake, please don't go giving them ideas!

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To run a sex shop – i.e. any premises selling sex toys, books or videos, you need a license.

The license is so expensive (e.g Manchester £5,000, Westminster £29,102 annually) that it is virtually impossible to make a profit.

In the unlikely event brothels would be legalized there'd probably be an astronomical fee.

Three adult stores have been raided in Manchester. Council Trading SubStandards officers and police seized around 800 DVDs and videos.

"The city council’s licensing and trading standards departments, assisted by Greater Manchester Police, raided a number of premises across Manchester.

The raid is part of an investigation into businesses operating without sex shop licences.

Trading SubStandards will also investigate whether the material seized complies with the Video Recordings Act.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1387735_800_dvds_seized_as_manchester_sex_shops_are_raided

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Indeed, the lessor of the two evils i mentioned in a previous post. Its just weird to me that the anti-prostitution lobby dont pressure MPs that have brothels in their areas and local media to get brothels closed down. If i were a feminazi i would see this area as ripe to exploit for my cause. :)

I've been asking the same question many times, it really is weird.

However, the antis want to punish punters that is their main goal and they wouldn't achieve that by closing down brothels.

It might in fact be an own goal since it could show to the public that the vast majority of those working there are not trafficked/underage/pimped/on drugs

and they might be pissed off by having their workplace closed down.

"Feminists campaign force prostitutes to work in unsafe conditions"

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Indeed, the lessor of the two evils i mentioned in a previous post. Its just weird to me that the anti-prostitution lobby dont pressure MPs that have brothels in their areas and local media to get brothels closed down. If i were a feminazi i would see this area as ripe to exploit for my cause. :)

Ah, but you see feminazis tend more towards easy pickings and that would be a spectacular own goal. ;)

If the police are openly saying -

"Premises are tolerated as long as they do not use people who are illegal or have been trafficked, under the age of 18, have no illegal drugs, and do not generate complaints of noise, nuisance or anti-social behaviour. Failure to comply will result in closure."

...then what grounds would the feminazis have after that ? ( Aside from the usual guff about letting down the sisterhood. )

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Ah, but you see feminazis tend more towards easy pickings and that would be a spectacular own goal. ;)

If the police are openly saying -

"Premises are tolerated as long as they do not use people who are illegal or have been trafficked, under the age of 18, have no illegal drugs, and do not generate complaints of noise, nuisance or anti-social behaviour. Failure to comply will result in closure."

...then what grounds would the feminazis have after that ? ( Aside from the usual guff about letting down the sisterhood. )

Activities such as pornography, prostitution, stripping, lap dancing, pole dancing and

table dancing are forms of commercial sexual exploitation. These activities have been

shown to be harmful for the individual women involved and have a negative impact on

the position of all women through the objectification of women’s bodies. This happens

irrespective of whether individual women claim success or empowerment from the activity. ;) ;)

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Oh, and the US government says the same thing, so it just has to be right

Prostitution is inherently harmful

Few activities are as brutal and damaging to people as prostitution. Field research in nine countries concluded that 60-75 percent of women in prostitution were raped, 70-95 percent were physically assaulted, and 68 percent met the criteria for post traumatic stress disorder in the same range as treatment-seeking combat veterans[2] and victims of state-organized torture.

Prostitution leaves women and children physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually devastated. Recovery takes years, even decades—often, the damage can never be undone.

where prostitution has been legalized or tolerated, there is an increase in the demand for sex slaves and the number of victimized foreign women

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Activities such as pornography, prostitution, stripping, lap dancing, pole dancing and

table dancing are forms of commercial sexual exploitation. These activities have been

shown to be harmful for the individual women involved and have a negative impact on

the position of all women through the objectification of women’s bodies. This happens

irrespective of whether individual women claim success or empowerment from the activity. ;) ;)

Yep, I've come across that quote before, like I said - guff. :D

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Yep, I've come across that quote before, like I said - guff. :D

Girl seen recently is a graduate engineer, working as a site manager on civil engineering projects. I doubt she feels in anyway exploited, intimidated or inferior to men. I also would think she has a firmer grip on reality that the person who wrote that guff.

Edited by akanostromo

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there would be a dumbing down of service, everything with condom, higher prices for fetish.

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So the question is 'Why has the government not yet legalised brothels'

Pros:

1. Help to slow down ( it won't stop it ) sex trafficing

2. Punters would know that they are going to a government registered brothel, i.e safer environment, clean sheets, regular inspections

3. Brothels would have government guidelines to follow around sexual health inspections for girls, cleanliness, venting of girls

4. You would know that girls working there WANT to work there and not forced or potentially under age, etc.

5. Government would be making ALOT of money on the tax they would be making, they need the cash

Cons:

1. More expensive - you know this would drive up prices at these new legalised brothels

2. Could increase un-license brothels to cater for the punters who want to pay low prices

3. On point 2 - if YOU got caught at an un-license brothel the law could be much harder on you

4. where would they be? You wouldn't want a legalised brothel next door to your house would you!!!

Anyway just my thoughts....

FlarePath..

What is the matter with a brothel near your house??? are you scum/sex offender/retrobate?? lol...very strange thoughts from a john...

Edited by MK_Bonnie

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What is the matter with a brothel near your house???

I'd much rather have a brothel next door than a kebab house or a pub.

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