DanLeno

Warning: Ruby Rayes, Thief

31 posts in this topic

Booked Ruby Rayes through Anna's Angels for a Friday evening session. Some while after I left I discovered she had stolen a considerable sum of money from me. I was carrying some additional funds for later in the evening. I had put these additional funds in an envelope and sealed it shut. I did this precisely in case I encountered an inquisitive WG (I had not seen Ruby before) who came across the money and gave in to temptation. I reasoned that a sealed envelope would either have to be taken complete (which I would notice before I left) or left alone. Unfortunately, it seems Ruby is a fairly smart thief. For when I opened the envelope later I found it short by £100. I realised she must have opened the envelope, taken what she thought she could get away with, and then placed the remainder in a new envelope of her own. What she didn't notice (or knew wouldn't matter until it was to late) was that I had jotted a note to myself on the corner of the envelope. The envelope I have now has no jotting on it. That is how I can be certain that money was taken and that it was not simply an accounting error on my part when I placed the money in the envelope originally. This envelope was also folded differently from how I had folded mine, adding further proof that this was not a mistake on my part but a theft on hers. The only person who had the opportunity to take the money was Ruby while I was in the shower and my jacket, with trusting stupidity, was hanging in her room. A further £20 was missing from my wallet. I have reported this to Anna's Angels. She is listed on many sites. I may have to contact other sites to tell them what she has done although they will have no way of confirming that I have even seen her, let alone that I am being honest and not malicious. For now I can only suggest to other punters she be avoided like the plague.

Was I an idiot to bring more money than strictly needed to a meeting with a WG? Absolutely. Was I an idiot to leave that money in her room while I took a shower? Absolutely again. I have learnt a lot of lessons. Towards the end of the session, Ruby commented that I was the "ideal client". I understand what she meant now: she meant I was the ideal chump. This was more than a crime of opportunity. She had to make quite an effort to take the money and cover her tracks so I didn't realise what she had done until it was too late. She is not only a thief but a calculating one.

Edited by DanLeno

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I don't want to defend WG, but its rather strange for Ruby to carry spare envelope with her, (or rather selection of different envelopes for the closest match with a client's) to be replaced if an opportunity would arise.

Its also unusual that anybody will discreetly mark their envelope, unless they are to paranoid. Please, please check again, before accusations!

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I hadn't deliberately marked the envelope so I would know if it was swapped; it just happened the envelope was the nearest thing to hand when I had earlier needed to jot something down. This was an incall to her flat so it is not surprising that she had an envelope available. The envelope was a very standard one.

She seems to have gone through all my pockets quite systematically so I doubt this was a sudden whim. It is likely she is in the habit of awarding herself a secret tip from her clients' pockets.

It is some hours since I noticed I was short. I have spent a good chunk of time thinking about whether there might be another explanation before I made this post. I'm afraid there is no doubt.

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I've just done something I surprisingly hadn't before now: I have put the envelope I took the money out of next to one from the same pack from which came the envelope I had put the money into. Side by side they are noticably different. My envelopes are lighter (in colour) with dark flecks, lighter (in weight) and with rounded corners to the flap; the envelope Ruby deceived me with is darker, without flecks, heavier and has sharp corners to the flap, there is also a difference in size though a small one. I can understand why I was fooled - after all a buff envelope is a buff envelope - but seeing them side by side I am ashamed that I was. If I was 99% sure I was robbed before I am 100% sure now. I do not make an accusation like this lightly.

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And have you informed Anna's Angels about this incident?

Edited by Easylover

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DanLeno,

Sorry to hear you were scammed. I don't think you should feel ashamed, you did a normal thing and I actually have pity for the lady involved. If someone is that desperate for a few quid, they clearly have a few problems. Not that this probably bothers any robber, but money can be replaced, dignity cannot.

You have learned a lesson and also informed me on something I hadn't thought about.

I'm sure this sort of thing is very rare on client or provider side.

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DanLeno,

Sorry to hear you were scammed. I don't think you should feel ashamed, you did a normal thing and I actually have pity for the lady involved. If someone is that desperate for a few quid, they clearly have a few problems. Not that this probably bothers any robber, but money can be replaced, dignity cannot.

You have learned a lesson and also informed me on something I hadn't thought about.

I'm sure this sort of thing is very rare on client or provider side.

A thief is still a thief, whether desperate or not, whether they have problems or not, this may be an opportunist theft but Ruby still had time to think it over,to ponder the chances and consequences of being discovered but still went ahead and took Dan for a mug (sorry Dan).

What is Anna's Angels response if any?

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And have you informed Anna's Angels about this incident?

Yes. I did mention that I had in my original post but I realise there was a lot there to read so it was probably easy to skip over.

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What is Anna's Angels response if any?

Nothing as yet but it is less than 12 hours since I informed them so hopefully I will have a response later today.

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I did have a shower at both the beginning and end of the session so, thinking about it now, I wonder if she came across the envelope during the first shower, came up with a plan during the punt, and then put the plan into action during the second shower. That would make more sense as it would give her the time to think of a plan and carry it out, so she wouldn't need to be as quick-thinking as I had thought and it would make the whole operation less risky than it would have been if she was trying to do everything during my first shower. At the end of the session she gave me a massage with various creams that she said I needed to wash off so she may have deliberately manipulated me into a second shower for her own purposes.

I actually thought she was a nice person until I realised what she had done. She certainly didn't come across as desperate but - unless it is some sort of kleptomanic compulsion? - it seems she must be.

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Yes. I did mention that I had in my original post but I realise there was a lot there to read so it was probably easy to skip over.

Sorry, I did look for it and didn;t see it, but it was early in the morning! :)

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Booked Ruby Rayes through Anna's Angels for a Friday evening session. Some while after I left I discovered she had stolen a considerable sum of money from me. I was carrying some additional funds for later in the evening. I had put these additional funds in an envelope and sealed it shut. I did this precisely in case I encountered an inquisitive WG (I had not seen Ruby before) who came across the money and gave in to temptation. I reasoned that a sealed envelope would either have to be taken complete (which I would notice before I left) or left alone. Unfortunately, it seems Ruby is a fairly smart thief. For when I opened the envelope later I found it short by £100. I realised she must have opened the envelope, taken what she thought she could get away with, and then placed the remainder in a new envelope of her own. What she didn't notice (or knew wouldn't matter until it was to late) was that I had jotted a note to myself on the corner of the envelope. The envelope I have now has no jotting on it. That is how I can be certain that money was taken and that it was not simply an accounting error on my part when I placed the money in the envelope originally. This envelope was also folded differently from how I had folded mine, adding further proof that this was not a mistake on my part but a theft on hers. The only person who had the opportunity to take the money was Ruby while I was in the shower and my jacket, with trusting stupidity, was hanging in her room. A further £20 was missing from my wallet. I have reported this to Anna's Angels. She is listed on many sites. I may have to contact other sites to tell them what she has done although they will have no way of confirming that I have even seen her, let alone that I am being honest and not malicious. For now I can only suggest to other punters she be avoided like the plague.

Was I an idiot to bring more money than strictly needed to a meeting with a WG? Absolutely. Was I an idiot to leave that money in her room while I took a shower? Absolutely again. I have learnt a lot of lessons. Towards the end of the session, Ruby commented that I was the "ideal client". I understand what she meant now: she meant I was the ideal chump. This was more than a crime of opportunity. She had to make quite an effort to take the money and cover her tracks so I didn't realise what she had done until it was too late. She is not only a thief but a calculating one.

Dan, are you 100% sure that this girl has taken your money/envelopes sealed with money ? there seems to be some discrepancies

regarding envelopes in your opening post/account of what happened.

Have you absolutely double checked that there is anything else that could of happened to the money ? did you put as much as you thought you had in the envelopes ?

you need to be 100% sure and ABSOLUTE accurate before you ever accuse someone of "stealing".

You have not just given a version of events that have happened- you have actually nameda girl that you may think has stolen money from you on a public forum- so the consequences for this girl in question are very bad in the respect that she now has been named a thief. Very good if its true, if she did steal the money then she would need to be named, but what if she is not a thief and did NOT take your money ?

I have full sympathy for you if have had your money stolen- 99% of the population including myself have had something taken/stolen from them in thier life time so can relate to where you are coming from and it is not a nice experience.

You have said yourself in above post that you were an 'idiot' to leave your money while having a shower- I would not go as far as to call you an idiot, but I do think it would of been wise to keep your wits about you and check, double check that you had everything with you before you left the situation.

I do hope that you don't find your "money" left behind in between car seats or even memory that has failed you and you left it in a draw at home somewhere- goodness what an apology that would be.

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Dan, are you 100% sure that this girl has taken your money/envelopes sealed with money ? there seems to be some discrepancies

regarding envelopes in your opening post/account of what happened.

Have you absolutely double checked that there is anything else that could of happened to the money ? did you put as much as you thought you had in the envelopes ?

you need to be 100% sure and ABSOLUTE accurate before you ever accuse someone of "stealing".

I'm sorry, Natasha, but I am 100% certain. I counted the money several times before I sealed it away. There is no way the money could have come out of a well-sealed envelope accidentally. I have explained the several reasons why I am sure the envelope that I removed from my jacket later in the evening after I had seen Ruby cannot have been the one I put in my jacket before I saw her (similar envelopes but noticable differences when side by side, no jotting on the new envelope, folded in different ways). At no time between putting one envelope in the jacket and taking another out besides when I saw Ruby was the jacket out of my immediate possession.

You have said yourself in above post that you were an 'idiot' to leave your money while having a shower- I would not go as far as to call you an idiot, but I do think it would of been wise to keep your wits about you and check, double check that you had everything with you before you left the situation.

I checked the relevant pocket to make sure I still had the envelope (or, as it turned out, an envelope). I did not check the envelope itself or its contents at that time. I thought that was enough. I was wrong.

I say again, I do not make an accusation like this lightly. I am aware of how serious it is.

Once before I thought there was less in my wallet than there should have been after I had visited a wg. I said nothing on this forum or elsewhere nor will I now name the lady in question in that case as I was not certain money had been taken. Another time I handed over my money to a wg, had a shower, and when I came back she said I was £20 short. Was I really short or had she decided to squeeze a little extra out of me? I don't know and because I do not know I have never mentioned the incident before now and, again, I will not now give even the slightest hint of who the lady was.

If I was not certain about Ruby I would not be saying anything now.

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I have still had no personal response to my text or email on this matter to Anna's Angels. However the review I posted on their site giving briefly the same details of the theft as in my original post here has now gone up on the site. We will see whether it remains there and whether it prompts the agency into any sort of action. It will at least serve as a warning to other punters for the moment.

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I'm not disputing your story at all Dan, but I always wonder why someone on such a good rate (£200/hour) would threaten her livelihood for the sake of (what must seem to her) a measly £120.

It happens in all walks of life though. I have known a guy on a six figure salary at work lose his job for the sake of trying to fiddle a few extra quid on his monthly expense claim.

Bizarre !

It'll be interesting to see what the agency do. To them it'll be your word against hers. I wonder who they'll believe :rolleyes: . Unless there have been previous allegations against young Ruby, I doubt you'll get much action from them. I hope to be pleasantly surprised though.

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I'm not disputing your story at all Dan, but I always wonder why someone on such a good rate (£200/hour) would threaten her livelihood for the sake of (what must seem to her) a measly £120.

Desperation or compulsion do seem the most likely explanations. But perhaps she just enjoys the thrill of getting one over on a client. She did take a sum that she must have thought I would put down as misaccounting on my part when I missed it so she has probably done similar before and got away with it.

It'll be interesting to see what the agency do. To them it'll be your word against hers. I wonder who they'll believe :rolleyes: . Unless there have been previous allegations against young Ruby, I doubt you'll get much action from them. I hope to be pleasantly surprised though.

Quite. I doubt they will do anything based on my allegations alone. But perhaps they will have had other claims or perhaps they will have others in the future. Possibly this thread or that review will bring out of the woodwork individuals who had noticed their wallet a bit light after a visit to Ruby but not felt that was evidence enough to make a complaint. If she had only taken the £20 from my wallet I probably would have thought I must have been mistaken about how much I had on me. It was only her taking the money from the stash where I knew exactly what I had that gave her away.

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I have just spoken to Anna's Angels and they assure me they will be in touch with Dan directly

and that they have spoken to the lady in question.

On that basis this is a good time to close this thread and allow the parties to sort it out between themselves.

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Following further communication with Anna's Angels I am re-opening the thread to allow them to post

their side of the story.

Other posters kindly refrain from further speculation.

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Following further communication with Anna's Angels I am re-opening the thread to allow them to post

their side of the story.

Other posters kindly refrain from further speculation.

hope i am not out of order posting this here Laura, but as a general point we should not take valuables into a punt. This is for girls or punters. I always leave wallet and phone locked in car boot...

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I have just spoken to Anna's Angels and they assure me they will be in touch with Dan directly

and that they have spoken to the lady in question.

On that basis this is a good time to close this thread and allow the parties to sort it out between themselves.

Any developments yet?

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Any developments yet?

Ruby has put a rebuttal/denial on Anna's site stating that she is sorry that Dan lost his money but she is not a thief and that the loss had nothing to do with her.

What happens now is between Anna's and Dan and agree with Laura Lee that no further speculation should be aired here.

Hopefully the situation can be resolved ammicably.

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I don't want to be one of those people who is always picking at the same scab so I guess this is the end. I know I lost money. I know that cannot have happened accidentally; I know it must have been taken. I know there was only one person who had the opportunity to take it. There is not a shadow of doubt about any part of that in my mind. I hope after this she thinks twice in the future. She needs to be careful. There are a lot of people in the world who would respond a lot more violently than I have done if they caught her out.

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We at Anna’s Angels were shocked to the core when we saw Dan’s review about our girl Ruby Rayes. Even though the accusations were unsubstantiated we posted the review in fairness to Dan. It was only right that he should have his say.

Of course we were not present at this meeting so have no first hand knowledge of the events which took place, or those which were alleged to have taken place by Dan.

Naturally we are very sorry if Dan has lost money. Who wouldn't be?

As we don't keep any personal details of clients after the booking has finished and we don't call clients without them first calling us where we can get approval, we did not contact Dan direct.

Ruby Rayes has already written a reply to his remarks in our review section.

We at Anna's Angels can only make observations as outsiders and would make the following comments for you, the jury, to consider.

Here in the UK is it not usual that a person is considered innocent until PROVEN guilty? Allegations are NOT proof!

Ruby joined Anna’s Angels last November so it will not be hard for you all to imagine the vast number of clients who have visited her. After all Ruby is one of our busiest girls. In all that time there has never been any single complaint about her in any way. She has received nothing but high praise from her large clientele with our agency. Ruby denies Dan’s report of events vehemently.

Anna’s Angels has always found Ruby to be honest and straightforward.

If Dan was so paranoid about an “inquisitive WG” looking into his business that he was obliged to seal his spare funds in an envelope and even put a secret jotting on it, would you not have thought that he would have checked immediately PRIOR to exiting the girls premises that all was in order?

If as Dan says he sealed his money in an envelope and marked it with a jotting, does it not follow that he would have taken that along with his wallet to the shower rather than leave anything to chance? Seems rather strange that one would go to all that trouble to seal money in an envelope, mark it with jottings, and then leave it unattended where it could be in any way compromised?

Dan’s appointment with Ruby was at 8pm and for 1 hour. Thus the appointment terminated at 9pm. Where was the jacket with envelope between 9pm and 10.34pm, the time he sent us a message to accuse Ruby of theft? Could something not have happened during that unaccounted for period of time?

Why did he not call us straightaway to report this incident, but send a text at 10.34pm followed by the accusation in public on Punternet?

So Dan we are extremely sorry for your alleged loss of £120, but we think you should really reconsider these accusations in the absence of unsupported proof.

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Pretty bad situation all round really.

It has come down to a he said,she said conclusion. Not that i'm 'speculating' but it is very hard to just misplace £100 pounds..

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We at Anna’s Angels were shocked to the core when we saw Dan’s review about our girl Ruby Rayes. Even though the accusations were unsubstantiated we posted the review in fairness to Dan. It was only right that he should have his say.

Of course we were not present at this meeting so have no first hand knowledge of the events which took place, or those which were alleged to have taken place by Dan.

Naturally we are very sorry if Dan has lost money. Who wouldn't be?

As we don't keep any personal details of clients after the booking has finished and we don't call clients without them first calling us where we can get approval, we did not contact Dan direct.

Ruby Rayes has already written a reply to his remarks in our review section.

We at Anna's Angels can only make observations as outsiders and would make the following comments for you, the jury, to consider.

Here in the UK is it not usual that a person is considered innocent until PROVEN guilty? Allegations are NOT proof!

Ruby joined Anna’s Angels last November so it will not be hard for you all to imagine the vast number of clients who have visited her. After all Ruby is one of our busiest girls. In all that time there has never been any single complaint about her in any way. She has received nothing but high praise from her large clientele with our agency. Ruby denies Dan’s report of events vehemently.

Anna’s Angels has always found Ruby to be honest and straightforward.

If Dan was so paranoid about an “inquisitive WG” looking into his business that he was obliged to seal his spare funds in an envelope and even put a secret jotting on it, would you not have thought that he would have checked immediately PRIOR to exiting the girls premises that all was in order?

If as Dan says he sealed his money in an envelope and marked it with a jotting, does it not follow that he would have taken that along with his wallet to the shower rather than leave anything to chance? Seems rather strange that one would go to all that trouble to seal money in an envelope, mark it with jottings, and then leave it unattended where it could be in any way compromised?

Dan’s appointment with Ruby was at 8pm and for 1 hour. Thus the appointment terminated at 9pm. Where was the jacket with envelope between 9pm and 10.34pm, the time he sent us a message to accuse Ruby of theft? Could something not have happened during that unaccounted for period of time?

Why did he not call us straightaway to report this incident, but send a text at 10.34pm followed by the accusation in public on Punternet?

So Dan we are extremely sorry for your alleged loss of £120, but we think you should really reconsider these accusations in the absence of unsupported proof.

It seems to me Anna's Angels' defence is based on a misunderstanding/misrepresentation of Dan's accusation. He never claimed that the "secret jotting" was there for the express purpose of envelope identification, nor that he was consciously aware of it when checking the envelope after the booking was completed. He had surmised that the sealed envelope would be sufficient in of itself; not expecting the girl to have the time and audacity to open it and replace it with an envelope of her own. From my reading of the accusation it's perfectly reasonable that he checked the envelope and saw it was still there, a standard white envelope sealed and with money in it. It was probably only later when he opened it, and noticed £100 was missing that he noticed the lack of writing on it and the slight discrepencies in size and shade of white. This would perfectly account for why there was a 90 minute delay in reporting the theft. Given the amount of time that would be needed to pull off this theft and the fact that the thief would need an envelope to hand, it seems perfectly reasonable that nobody other than Ruby could have taken it.

I am not saying that he is to be believed over Ruby completely. However what I'm saying is that either :-

a)Ruby is a thief

or

b)Dan is a complete liar who is entirely making this up

There is no middle ground here. His story is reasonable and airtight, leaving no room for anyone else to be the thief or even for there to have been no thief at all. It still comes down to "He said, She said" but, as I said, Dan would have to be completely making up the details about the envelope and the writing and everything for Ruby to be believed.

Edited by punter992005

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