Zzzorro

Chinese Medical Centre Raid - Newcastle

14 posts in this topic

This article caught my eye this morning:-

http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-news/story/five-held-in-suspected-brothel-raid/1841600

It seems that these Chinese Medical Centres are using trafficked ladies. No great surprise there. This one was 100m from the local "nick".

Not quite too sure why the police had to wear riot gear to raid the place. Looks very OTT to me. I cannot imagine either the masseuses or the naked customers would put up much of a fight.

I pity the poor punters who were caught in there. Maybe they were both NOTW reporters investigating the place and had not yet made their excuses and left.

How many Chinese Health Centre customers have gone into the shops and asked the ladies if they were trafficked or were working under duress? Maybe we should all have Mandarin lessons so we can exercise due dilligence before going to such places.

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This article caught my eye this morning:-

http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-news/story/five-held-in-suspected-brothel-raid/1841600

It seems that these Chinese Medical Centres are using trafficked ladies. No great surprise there. This one was 100m from the local "nick".

Not quite too sure why the police had to wear riot gear to raid the place. Looks very OTT to me. I cannot imagine either the masseuses or the naked customers would put up much of a fight.

I pity the poor punters who were caught in there. Maybe they were both NOTW reporters investigating the place and had not yet made their excuses and left.

How many Chinese Health Centre customers have gone into the shops and asked the ladies if they were trafficked or were working under duress? Maybe we should all have Mandarin lessons so we can exercise due dilligence before going to such places.

I doubt this, but some ladies may not have valid visas anymore...a bit like those who work for the chinese takeaways or the indian takeaways who use cheaper labour exploiting people from their own country, who work here illegally.

Any illegal workers should be removed IMO, and that goes for massage places too.

I have never met a lady working under duress, everyone I have met enjoy the work, as it is so well paid and gives themselves, and often their children a better way of life in the future.

The owners, if they are using illegal workers, should be brought before a court of law to explain their actions.

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I doubt this, but some ladies may not have valid visas anymore...a bit like those who work for the chinese takeaways or the indian takeaways who use cheaper labour exploiting people from their own country, who work here illegally.

Any illegal workers should be removed IMO, and that goes for massage places too.

I have never met a lady working under duress, everyone I have met enjoy the work, as it is so well paid and gives themselves, and often their children a better way of life in the future.

The owners, if they are using illegal workers, should be brought before a court of law to explain their actions.

Apologies, too late to edit:

The paper reporting the raid has the add online:

http://gfx.easyads123.co.uk//upl/8/12271466.pdf

Couldn't make it up.....

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How many Chinese Health Centre customers have gone into the shops and asked the ladies if they were trafficked or were working under duress? Maybe we should all have Mandarin lessons so we can exercise due dilligence before going to such places.

Its not why I learnt mandarin but having long conversations with the masseuses is certainly one perk of speaking mandarin. They are often so surprised when they hear the customer speak mandarin that they let they talk very familiarly afterwards, sometimes so much so I opt out of HE as it doesn't feel right after we spent thirty minutes talking about our families etc.

Anyway the point of the post is that once you have those conversations you start to realise how murky a world it CAN be, I emphasise can as there are places I believe to be 100% legit based on how long they've been in the UK and their involvement with the local community although that just reasures me that they're not forced (because they're integrated enough to have other employment options and support from their community if they are in need). It still doesn't mean they're not illegal immigrants, even if they've been here 10 plus years, or that they were never forced into certain jobs.

If you're interested in the world of Chinese workers in the UK and want your faith in undercover reporting restored at the same time there's an excellent an eye-opening book called "Chinese whispers" on the Chinese workers in the UK. The author (a legal Chinese migrant) pretended to be an illegal and spent time working in farms, factories, morecombe bay and as a receptionist in massage parlour.

I doubt this, but some ladies may not have valid visas anymore...a bit like those who work for the chinese takeaways or the indian takeaways who use cheaper labour exploiting people from their own country, who work here illegally.

...I have never met a lady working under duress, everyone I have met enjoy the work, as it is so well paid and gives themselves, and often their children a better way of life

I agree on expired visas for Indians but less so for Chinese or mandarin speaking Chinese to be specific, because citizens of ex-colonies like India and Hong Kong (Cantonese) had easier legitimate entry routes to the UK. Whereas mainland Chinese people didn't have this route so a larger proportion of mandarin speaking immigrants would have been illegal and trafficked as they could never have afforded a UK visa to outstay or got a Chinese passport sorted to leave. This was particularly true in the 90's and early 00's when the majority of illegal Chinese immigrants were coming from North East china through Russia and it's that accent that's often spoken by waiters and waitresses in China towns and by masseuses too.

Things have changed a little in the last few years with the influx of middle class Chinese students, some of whom may outstay visas, but many of the students coming across now are very wealthy and wouldnt massage, well not for the money offered in Chinese parlours.

The point I'm leading up to is it's a massively complex situation and IMHO in many cases impossible to judge if someone is under duress or not. When you read accounts of those who have been trafficked some resigned themselves to their situation, didn't particularly like it but made the best of it. How would you spot her?

Edited by pinkshirt

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Its not why I learnt mandarin but having long conversations with the masseuses is certainly one perk or speaking mandarin. They are often so surprised when they hear the customer speak mandarin that they let they talk very familiarly afterwards, sometimes so much so I opt out of HE as it doesn't feel right after we spent thirty minutes talking about our families etc.

Anyway the point of the post is that once you have those conversations you start to realise how murky a world it CAN be, I emphasise can as there are places I believe to be 100% legit based on how long they've been in the UK and their involvement with the local community although that just reasures me that they're not forced (because they're integrated enough to have other employment options and support from their community if they are in need). It still doesn't mean they're not illegal immigrants, even if they've been here 10 plus years, or that they were never forced into certain jobs.

If you're interested in the world of Chinese workers in the UK there's and want your faith in undercover reporting restored at the same time there's an excellent an eye-opening book called "Chinese whispers" on the Chinese workers in the UK. The author (a legal Chinese migrant) pretended to be an illegal and spent time working in farms, factories, morecombe bay and as a receptionist in massage parlour.

I agree on expired visas for Indians but less so for Chinese or mandarin speaking Chinese to be specific, because citizens for ex-colonies like India and Hong Kong (Cantonese) had easier legitimate entry routes to the UK. Whereas mainland Chinese people didn't have this route so a larger proportion of mandarin speaking immigrants would have been illegal and trafficked as they could never have afforded a UK visa to outstay or got a Chinese passport sorted to leave. This was particularly true in the 90's and early 00's when the majority of illegal Chinese immigrants were coming from North East china through Russia and it's that accent that's often spoken by waiters and waitresses in China towns and by masseuses too.

Things have changed a little in the last few years with the influx of middle class Chinese students, some of whom may outstay visas, but many of the students coming across now are very wealthy and wouldnt massage for the money offered in Chinese parlours.

The point I'm leading up to is it's a massively complex situation and IMHO in many cases impossible to judge if someone is under duress or not. When you read accounts of those who have been trafficked some resigned themselves to their situation, didn't particularly like it but made the best of it. How would you spot her?

Thanks for the insight, that's very informative.

I mentioned the chinese seeking asylum as I know of two ladies doing exactly that, they used to work in massage parlours (health centres, only ever gave HR, despite the owners wanting them to do otherwise, at which point they simply left, and worked elsewhere). When one ladies visa ran out (this lady was very popular, gave one of the best massages ever, and saved a business she was so good, when she refused to do anything more than HR the boss accepted it and she worked there for about 6 months) she was terrified of being caught as an illegal. I mean terrified.

She is now an asylum seeker (something about one of the religions prosecuted by the chinese authorities)...she now has free accomadation, has free education, has put all her massage experiences to the back burner and is happily getting on with her life in the UK...has many British friends too. She only has a few more years to wait until she gets her visa. She is a genuine lovely lady, who could have easily been working at the Newcastle place. Her friend was indeed working there only a few months ago.

Certainly a complex situtation, but the authorities want publicity, so they get it. Agreed, spotting a trafficked lady is tough...but if I ever had any doubt I would inform the authorities.

For sure, the place in Newcastle was not as active as alot of places in London, Birmingham, Manchester...the owners must be filling their pants about that raid.

I have met alot of students, particularly recently, working in chinese places...one lass told me she wants to bring her mum to the UK. As for the money they can make...in the right place they make a fortune, but I do know ladies working in london can make the bare minimum due to lack of clients, oversupply of ladies.

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The posts above make for interesting reading, but I doubt there was anything dubious going on. Maybe I'm being naive, but I nevers suspected anything. Infact, a while ago I remember seeing managmeent training one young woman how to run the front desk, and I'd seen her there quite often doing just that. Then earlier this year, she was working as a masseuse, so if she was being trafficked, that's a very odd way to go about it.

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The posts above make for interesting reading, but I doubt there was anything dubious going on. Maybe I'm being naive, but I nevers suspected anything. Infact, a while ago I remember seeing managmeent training one young woman how to run the front desk, and I'd seen her there quite often doing just that. Then earlier this year, she was working as a masseuse, so if she was being trafficked, that's a very odd way to go about it.

Some perhaps many are willingly trafficked and agree to be bonded so in that scenario it wouldnt necessarily be odd.

The point is being willing is obviously better than being forced but is still illegal and a possible way unwitting punters could get nicked.

I just hope the government severly clampdown, supervise and verify those wanting to come here on student visas, a known trafficking route to ensure they are here for legitimate reasons and all other people wanting to come here using whatever reason/route.

I now avoid WGs or places where the women come and go on a regular basis, in my opinion its a possible indication of something dodgy going on, it might be legitimate but its suspicious enough for me to avoid them.

Edited by smiths

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Some perhaps many are willingly trafficked and agree to be bonded so in that scenario it wouldnt necessarily be odd.

The point is being willing is obviously better than being forced but is still illegal and a possible way unwitting punters could get nicked.

I just hope the government severly clampdown, supervise and verify those wanting to come here on student visas, a known trafficking route to ensure they are here for legitimate reasons and all other people wanting to come here using whatever reason/route.

I now avoid WGs or places where the women come and go on a regular basis, in my opinion its a possible indication of something dodgy going on, it might be legitimate but its suspicious enough for me to avoid them.

If the ladies were bonded, it will be impossible for the authorities to expose this....simply impossible. It is simply too long standing and complex......

I know a mature chinese lady who works in a massage parlour in London at the moment, has a much younger English boyfriend (oh, she was completely against older woman, younger man at first - serious problem in chinese culture), drives a rather large car up and down the UK. He knows she works, and what she does. They are loaded, and I mean loaded. She has her house paid for in china...and lots of cash in her bank. She worked in Manchester (her big earner), London, Leeds and a few other towns...definately not bonded, but definately a shrewd business lady.

She could have been working in newcastle with the other ladies....i think she'd be classed as trafficked too.

I am still not sure what 'willingly trafficked' means...do you mean they come here to earn money for themselves and their families, and pay a fee to the smugglers? I know not of that, but I do know ladies come here legally and overstay their visas (as do many others) and keep on working.

Either way, we must all obey the Law in the UK.

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If the ladies were bonded, it will be impossible for the authorities to expose this....simply impossible. It is simply too long standing and complex......

I know a mature chinese lady who works in a massage parlour in London at the moment, has a much younger English boyfriend (oh, she was completely against older woman, younger man at first - serious problem in chinese culture), drives a rather large car up and down the UK. He knows she works, and what she does. They are loaded, and I mean loaded. She has her house paid for in china...and lots of cash in her bank. She worked in Manchester (her big earner), London, Leeds and a few other towns...definately not bonded, but definately a shrewd business lady.

She could have been working in newcastle with the other ladies....i think she'd be classed as trafficked too.

I am still not sure what 'willingly trafficked' means...do you mean they come here to earn money for themselves and their families, and pay a fee to the smugglers? I know not of that, but I do know ladies come here legally and overstay their visas (as do many others) and keep on working.

Either way, we must all obey the Law in the UK.

Yes willingly trafficked and agreed to be bonded and pay the bond back by working as a WG for the trafficker or assoiciates. According to posters on here these bonds cost many times the cost of her travel. Her motivation is a better life but she has no employment rights and is a sex slave till the bond is paid off, she might be willing but that doesnt make it right or acceptable to me. Plus what happens to the WG if she gets ill and cant work or decides she doesnt want to continue working, her traffickers and/or associates arent going to be too happy i would imagine.

I agree regarding exposing wholesale bonding which is why the area i would like to see very much more policed is applying for visas and when the women arrive here verification of their reasons for coming here checked out.

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Yes willingly trafficked and agreed to be bonded and pay the bond back by working as a WG for the trafficker or assoiciates. According to posters on here these bonds cost many times the cost of her travel. Her motivation is a better life but she has no employment rights and is a sex slave till the bond is paid off, she might be willing but that doesnt make it right or acceptable to me. Plus what happens to the WG if she gets ill and cant work or decides she doesnt want to continue working, her traffickers and/or associates arent going to be too happy i would imagine.

I agree regarding exposing wholesale bonding which is why the area i would like to see very much more policed is applying for visas and when the women arrive here verification of their reasons for coming here checked out.

Erm, I can't agree in this case.

There is no evidence whatsoever that any of these ladies are bonded or forced to work.

Calling a masseuse in a medical massage establishment a sex slave points me to end my conversations with you.

Goodbye.

I am guessing you have never been to the Newcastle place or met the ladies. In fact, i am not guessing, I know for a fact you have not been or your rather naieve views would be wiser.

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Erm, I can't agree in this case.

There is no evidence whatsoever that any of these ladies are bonded or forced to work.

Calling a masseuse in a medical massage establishment a sex slave points me to end my conversations with you.

Goodbye.

I am guessing you have never been to the Newcastle place or met the ladies. In fact, i am not guessing, I know for a fact you have not been or your rather naieve views would be wiser.

You clearly didnt read my post correctly. I am not making any assumptions about this case, i have no idea what the set-up is. My post was regarding the general situation and anwering your point, read it again and you will see i didnt say this establishment had sex slaves. My views are not naive in any way. You should read a posters posts properly before replying but thats of course up to you.

Edited by smiths

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To my knowledge of how it illegal chinese immigrants arrive on our shores is as follows. In china roughly between £20000 to £30000 is paid to a gang that is part of a network of gangs that smuggle the people from on country to another until they eventually get to the UK. This money may be borrowed from gangs but is generally borrowed from friends and family who willingly come up with the money on the promise that money will be sent back to repay this with interest etc. The illegal immigrants are then free to find work of their choosing in the Uk to pay back money owed.

I know this as I'm good friends with several illegal immigrants. However the problem of illegal immigrants from China may soon cease to exist as opportunities in china increase many of these immigrants are regetting their decission to travel here.

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To my knowledge of how it illegal chinese immigrants arrive on our shores is as follows. In china roughly between £20000 to £30000 is paid to a gang that is part of a network of gangs that smuggle the people from on country to another until they eventually get to the UK. This money may be borrowed from gangs but is generally borrowed from friends and family who willingly come up with the money on the promise that money will be sent back to repay this with interest etc. The illegal immigrants are then free to find work of their choosing in the Uk to pay back money owed.

I know this as I'm good friends with several illegal immigrants. However the problem of illegal immigrants from China may soon cease to exist as opportunities in china increase many of these immigrants are regetting their decission to travel here.

Reading a post by "Chinatoon" on a thread about a Chinese Health shop being raided in Newcastle, does make me wonder.

I would have thought all Mandarin speaking Chinese would have supported Blackpool F.C.

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To my knowledge of how it illegal chinese immigrants arrive on our shores is as follows. In china roughly between £20000 to £30000 is paid to a gang that is part of a network of gangs that smuggle the people from on country to another until they eventually get to the UK. This money may be borrowed from gangs but is generally borrowed from friends and family who willingly come up with the money on the promise that money will be sent back to repay this with interest etc. The illegal immigrants are then free to find work of their choosing in the Uk to pay back money owed.

I know this as I'm good friends with several illegal immigrants. However the problem of illegal immigrants from China may soon cease to exist as opportunities in china increase many of these immigrants are regetting their decission to travel here.

That is also my understanding. Chinese are 10000% family orientated, and many are ultra conservative. This includes the masseuses working in many chinese massage/medicine places. The ladies often bring their sons here, their sisters, their moms. Not good press though.

But it doesn't make good press when the ladies who earn very good money are taken into care by the authorities because they are trafficking victims, when they are here (or America etc) making very good money to set up their family for life completely of their own accord, and owe gangs precisely zero money.

When I say family, I am talking about their chinese family....usually very large!

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