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Irgendeiner

Police Priorities?

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I read this BBC report with astonishment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14871318

In particular, I'm just the tinyiest bit startled by this:

Det Ch Insp Sean O'Neil said: "The men we found at the site were in a poor state of physical health and the conditions they were living in were shockingly filthy and cramped.

"We believe that some of them had been living and working there in a state of virtual slavery, some for just a few weeks and others for up to 15 years."

He added that the men appeared to have been "recruited" from soup kitchens and benefits offices and included people with problems such as alcoholism.

He said: "They're recruited and told if you come here we'll pay you £80 a day, we'll look after you give you board and lodgings.

"But when they get here, their hair is cut off them, they're kept in in some cases [in] horseboxes, dog kennels and old caravans, made to work for no money, given very, very small amounts of food.

"That's the worse case. Some are treated a little bit better, but they were told they could not leave and if they did they would be beaten up and attacked.

"But in fact some people did leave and told us what was going on and when we looked back since 2008 we were aware of 28 people who had made similar accusations."

So it takes 28 complaints before the Police get off their bums - how many allegations of trafficking, or even brothel keeping does it take to get a raid?

Am I missing something, or does this shine a rather repulsive light on Police priorities? (Anyone know more about this than the BBC are telling?)

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they cant be trafficked. they are not girls working as hookers.

sarcasm apart, what is POCA?

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they cant be trafficked. they are not girls working as hookers.

sarcasm apart, what is POCA?

Proceeds of crime act - basically means the police can take assets that are earned through criminality. It's also a guilty until proven innocent type of offence. One of the first prosecutions was against a family who lived in a council house and were unemployed and all claiming benefits - they had flat-screen TVs, Playstations, two cars, wads of cash laid around everywhere behind sofas etc and plenty in the bank. They never convicted them of any offence, and the story suggested the police weren't actually sure where the money had come from. But the family couldn't account for it (to the satisfaction of the courts) and it was seized.

POCA is one of the reasons the police sometimes target brothels that you would think would be low on their list of priorities i.e with no hint of trafficking, underage girls etc. The money is split between the gov't, CPS and the police.

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Similar allegations of slavery have been made about other traveller sites around the country over the years but these guys are the bottom of the social pile and the police probably don't take them seriously until one day the penny drops through the sheer weight of complaints.

Don't forget, travellers have numerous pressure groups championing their cause which makes policing far more difficult unlike the Triads and EE mafiosa who are vilified by all.

Edited by Confuscius

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I read this BBC report with astonishment:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-14871318

In particular, I'm just the tinyiest bit startled by this:

So it takes 28 complaints before the Police get off their bums - how many allegations of trafficking, or even brothel keeping does it take to get a raid?

Am I missing something, or does this shine a rather repulsive light on Police priorities? (Anyone know more about this than the BBC are telling?)

A very repulsive light if proved. I read about this earlier, shocking and very interested to hear what exactly has been going on.

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Similar allegations of slavery have been made about other traveller sites around the country over the years but these guys are the bottom of the social pile and the police probably don't take them seriously until one day the penny drops through the sheer weight of complaints.

Don't forget, travellers have numerous pressure groups championing their cause which makes policing far more difficult unlike the Triads and EE mafiosa who are vilified by all.

Interesting, i have never heard about this before myself.

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You don't think they might be softening up the public for when the shit really hits the fan at Dale Farm, probably this week?

Mind you, judging by most online comments, the majority of the Great British Public would quite happily see Nazi-style gas chambers used against the occupants of that site.

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You don't think they might be softening up the public for when the shit really hits the fan at Dale Farm, probably this week?

Mind you, judging by most online comments, the majority of the Great British Public would quite happily see Nazi-style gas chambers used against the occupants of that site.

why travellers think the planning laws don't apply to them is beyond me. I need permission for new windows or for a sky dish and accept it.....

(conservation area)

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You don't think they might be softening up the public for when the shit really hits the fan at Dale Farm, probably this week?

Mind you, judging by most online comments, the majority of the Great British Public would quite happily see Nazi-style gas chambers used against the occupants of that site.

I think the big day is the 20th of this month but the coming few days will be tense.

The residents of Dale Farm are claiming plans to evict them are synomynous with ethnic cleansing - their definition of the term is obviously very different to mine. Historically, vast numbers of Romany met their end at the hands of the Nazis solely on the grounds of ethnicity and this obviously cannot be justified on any level. But travellers are a different breed that sets them apart from their neighbours who claim that anti social behaviour has gone through the roof over the timframe the travellers moved in. Even Romanies who've been in the area for years if not generations look down on them. It doesn't surprise me that feelings are running high in the wider community.

Yes, cynically I agree that the authorities are subtlely trying to influence public opinion as a way of matching the rhetoric coming from the pressure groups. I suspect we will see a few more headline grabbing stories along similar lines over the next few weeks to reduce any prospect of public support for an underclass which are commonly believed to be more into sinning than sinned against.

It will be interesting to see whether any of their champions would favour these travellers moving into their area.

Edited by Confuscius

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I think the big day is the 20th of this month but the coming few days will be tense.

The residents of Dale Farm are claiming plans to evict them are synomynous with ethnic cleansing - their definition of the term is obviously very different to mine. Historically, vast numbers of Romany met their end at the hands of the Nazis solely on the grounds of ethnicity and this obviously cannot be justified on any level. But travellers are a different breed that sets them apart from their neighbours who claim that anti social behaviour has gone through the roof over the timframe the travellers moved in. Even Romanies who've been in the area for years if not generations look down on them. It doesn't surprise me that feelings are running high in the wider community.

Yes, cynically I agree that the authorities are subtlely trying to influence public opinion as a way of matching the rhetoric coming from the pressure groups. I suspect we will see a few more headline grabbing stories along similar lines over the next few weeks to reduce any prospect of public support for an underclass which are commonly believed to be more into sinning than sinned against.

It will be interesting to see whether any of their champions would favour these travellers moving into their area.

if they have planning permission and pay their council tax same as rest of us why not?

the problem is when they set themselves above the law that the rest of us abide by.

the same thing is playing itself out in Meriden, between cov and brum. no planning permission so should be evicted but claiming all sorts of silly priveleges.

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they cant be trafficked. they are not girls working as hookers.

sarcasm apart, what is POCA?

On the contrary, my friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking

The UK jurisdictions define trafficking differently, and going a great deal further than the UN Protocol, but sexual exploitation is by no means the only qualification for trafficking. I venture to suggest that most trafficking convictions in England are in respect of domestic servitude.

POCA - don't get me on my high horse! It used to be that the Polis were there to keep the Queen's Peace, detect and deter crime, but today the major priority appears to be the 33% of the "Proceeds of Crime" which they can get to keep (the other two thirds go to the Treasury and CPS, I think).

In just the same way that that deceitful animal Blair told the Commons (and the duped voters) that the purpose of the European Arrest Warrant (and also the new, improved Anglo-US Extradition Treaty) was to get terrorists sent back for swift justice, POCA was sold as being there to take their ill gotten gains off wholesale drug smugglers and dealers, and the "Mr Bigs" of organised crime. Faugh! I think I'm right in saying that one Ukrainian (i.e. Non-EU) plumber who'd been working hard, paying tax and NI, and, poor daft bugger, saving to get the deposit on a house, had the whole lot taken off him as Proceeds of Crime, his "crime" being being not having a work permit! And is is clear beyond peradventure that some Police forces let clean, non drugged, non exploitative brothels flourish for a good few years until they look to have built up some profits which can then be "harvested" by our good police!

Paranoid? Me? No!

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why travellers think the planning laws don't apply to them is beyond me. I need permission for new windows or for a sky dish and accept it.....

(conservation area)

My mother, who also lives in a conversation area, needed planning permission to prune a tree in her back garden. I wonder how how the travelling community would have approached this?

if they have planning permission and pay their council tax same as rest of us why not?

I don't think it's a generalisation to say that travellers find any form of taxation repugnant.

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You don't think they might be softening up the public for when the shit really hits the fan at Dale Farm, probably this week?

indeed this is what i was thinking,though i imagine they would'nt really need to soften up the public anyway

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My mother, who also lives in a conversation area, needed planning permission to prune a tree in her back garden. I wonder how how the travelling community would have approached this?

I think the standard practice is to get your chainsaw out on a Bank Holiday when all the enforcement officers are on leave :rolleyes: . The instance I'm aware of didn't involve travellers.

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Isn't one of the components of the travelling community Irish didicois? And aren't many over here because the Irish people had had enough of them and forced them out?

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Isn't one of the components of the travelling community Irish didicois? And aren't many over here because the Irish people had had enough of them and forced them out?

Didicoys strictly speaking have mixed Romany blood. Irish trasvellers do not possess any Romany genes. The Irish authorities require travellers there to sign on for benefits at the same time which I suppose is a bit inconvenient.

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My mother, who also lives in a conversation area, needed planning permission to prune a tree in her back garden. I wonder how how the travelling community would have approached this?

I don't think it's a generalisation to say that travellers find any form of taxation repugnant.

On the other hand I have knowledge of a native, upstanding, resident (not my town though) who has had an extension/permanent caravan structure thingy in their back garden for several year side-stepping planning permission. Turns out they know a local councillor very well.

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On the other hand I have knowledge of a native, upstanding, resident (not my town though) who has had an extension/permanent caravan structure thingy in their back garden for several year side-stepping planning permission. Turns out they know a local councillor very well.

Indeed - I came dangerously close once to buying a house that it turned out had a serious planning breach; I don't recall the vendors having to put up with the locals calling for them to be nuked from orbit.

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if they have planning permission and pay their council tax same as rest of us why not?

the problem is when they set themselves above the law that the rest of us abide by.

the same thing is playing itself out in Meriden, between cov and brum. no planning permission so should be evicted but claiming all sorts of silly priveleges.

I agree, they have willingly broken the planning regulations so its quite right they are evicted in my opinion, it certainly shouldnt of taken 10 years but thats the weakness and running scared attitude of the council.

Its also the case all have been offered rehousing but not necessarily all together as i assume the council just doesnt have this much property in one location sitting empty waiting for large groups of people to need housing, they have turned this rehousing down and saying they will be homeless once evicted. Voluntary homelessness is the responsibility of the individual but people with children will NEVER be left without housing options through the council.

Obey the planning regulations and this wouldnt have happened. I have to so it should apply to all equally. :)

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Round here you need planning permission to erect a garden shed. Crazy!

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Round here you need planning permission to erect a garden shed. Crazy!

Round my way you need planning permission and a risk assesment from council for any type of erection.

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