bacchus

Herald Scotland article: Should prostitution be given the red light?

24 posts in this topic

Ahead of a 'major debate' on plans 'to make it a crime to buy sex in Scotland' the Herald presents five different viewpoints.

Final paragraphs (or two) from each quoted below, but the article is well worth reading in it's entirety here

The feminist campaigner - Julie Bindel:

Men who pay for sex need to be educated about the harm it is causing. Some will only stop if they are frightened of the consequences. Others are able to justify what they do, because it is not against the law. One regular punter told me: "It's like going for a drink. You are not doing anything illegal." He is right. Let's hope we can change this.

The sex worker - Catherine Stephens:

All we want is the same human, civil and labour rights, as well as the same protection under the law, as everyone else. We also want to be consulted on the decisions that affect us. It's considered acceptable to exclude and marginalise people in the sex industry in a way that wouldn't be tolerated with any other occupation or minority. That's immoral.

The academic - Roger Matthews:

It's misleading to represent prostitution as a career choice. Choice plays little part. Many came in through drug addiction, one-third have been in local authority care, a large percentage come from broken families, often with sexual abuse or neglect. These young women are very effectively targeted by pimps and people who exploit their vulnerability. In fact, women get involved in street prostitution when they've run out of choices.

...

The answer is to decriminalise soliciting, while ensuring that the exploiters are subject to more intense criminal sanctions. Women who work on the street are more victims than criminals. We need to help them to get out of prostitution and turn their lives around.

The politician - Margo MacDonald:

I'd love to think that nobody had to sell sex, but I know that some people will want to do so and some people will want to buy. It's the way they do it that we should concern ourselves with, and if they're discreet and not harming third parties, what is the legislation for?

The police watchdog - Bill Skelly:

As for the argument that people simply shouldn't be allowed to trade in human misery, well, that's certainly relevant where trafficking is concerned, so that's where policing should be concentrated.

People are already being brought to justice and I don't think creating another offence would add any value, so no, I wouldn't support any move to criminalise men who purchase sex. As far as I am concerned, it is about protecting the most vulnerable from harm.

Link again if missed above:

Should prostitution be given the red light?

B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, gawd! You are aware, I trust, that under the Breastfeeding Etc., (Scotland) Act 2005 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2005/pdf/asp_20050001_en.pdf) it is a criminal offence to prevent or stop a child being breast fed in public or on licenced premises?

I don't think that the Nosepicking (Scotland) Act 2009 has yet been produced, but I'm waiting.

This over-grown County Council has to find something to change or control every bloody day of the week, so I have little doubt that the Prohibition of Paid Sex (Scotland) Bill will be coming very soon. In the old days (my late mother told me) Scots lasses could be seen walking over the bridge at Coldstream into England to go to a pub for a drink, because, in those days, no nice girl could go to a bar in Scotland! Soon the boys will be flocking over the border of an evening into Berwick or Carlisle to find a brothel!

Bloody daft!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a shame the late Dora Noyce, 40 years the madame of 17 Danube St isn't still with us and able to participate........ Her comments would be invaluable.

This from http://news.scotsman.com/edinburghssexindustry/Nights-at-citys-blue-Danube.2686533.jp

"She would always go to Deacon Brodie's [a well-known pub] after court. All the press would be there, including the Evening News, and she'd say to them: 'Just make sure you get the name and address right!'"

Never short of an entertaining quip, she blithely claimed in one interview that although her busiest time was during the Edinburgh Festival, the two weeks of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland ranked a close second.

And she once likened her establishment, where gentlemen visitors received coffee and sandwiches along with their pick of girls - to the YMCA, "apart from one little difference . . ."

Edited by wanderlust
typo-- as usual!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like good balance reporting where the views of every interested party are represented.

Who spoke up for the punter?

And who is going to pay all the unemployment benefit and job seekers allowance for WGs put out of business?

Dont you just love Numpty Britian and it's do-gooders?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

people like julie bindel are raping sex workers of their dignity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is interesting to think that a ban can be advocated for prostitution on the grounds that some WGs/providers are drug addicted, abused etc.

In that case what fate should befall our politicians, when just some of their number are addicted to inflated expenses claims, morally incompetent etc?

The era of collective punishment returns, send for the guillotine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like good balance reporting where the views of every interested party are represented.

Who spoke up for the punter?

And who is going to pay all the unemployment benefit and job seekers allowance for WGs put out of business?

Dont you just love Numpty Britian and it's do-gooders?

Nobody spoke up for the punters. In Julie Bindel's mind the punter is an appalling creature who should be "re-educated" as to the error of his ways. :eek::rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nobody spoke up for the punters. In Julie Bindel's mind the punter is an appalling creature who should be "re-educated" as to the error of his ways. :eek::rolleyes:

Julie Bindel is a mad lesbian academic. I well remember when Glasgow Council commissioned her to write an unbiased report on lapdancing in the city - what a waste of taxpayer's money that was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nobody spoke up for the punters. In Julie Bindel's mind the punter is an appalling creature who should be "re-educated" as to the error of his ways. :eek::rolleyes:

I just wish Julie Bindel would read this post. I can't help wondering what her explanation or rationalisation of the events described would be.

Btw, even though she isn't a WG or a punter, the option is open for her to join the forum and take part. We're quite open-minded :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nobody spoke up for the punters. In Julie Bindel's mind the punter is an appalling creature who should be "re-educated" as to the error of his ways. :eek::rolleyes:

Why does that conjure up a vision of Gollum from the Lord of the Rings...

I wasn't thinking about punters, BTW. :D:)

B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.... and the "debate" continues ..... :eek::mad:

http://www.harlots-parlour.com/2009/09/give-prositution-red-light-debate-in.html#idc-container

From Ms. Bindel :

Douglas. You are simply worried about profits. Pimps tend not to care a hoot about the human rights of 'sex workers'. I am afraid that this thread is a load of tosh. Catherine lost the debate last week. Big style.

My reply :

Julie, why can't you see that there are other opinions equally as valid if not more so than your own ? I take great exception to being labelled a deluded victim. I am an intelligent woman currently working on my second degree, surely I should be able to distinguish the difference between those who seek to exploit me and those men who choose to use my services for their own reasons ?

All of us at that debate were in agreement that trafficking MUST be stamped out, rather than use a sledge hammer to crack a nut and penalise ALL sex workers, surely the solution here is to create a working group for the eradication of trafficking and include as some of it's members some escorts who have an inside knowledge of the industry ? Would I be willing to put my money where my mouth is and join such a group ? Of course I would. If it meant that one woman would be spared the appalling treatment that trafficked women are subjected to, then I would be willing to step aside from my anonymity and contribute.

Whilst you may be able to freely label Douglas a "pimp", which incidentally is manifestly untrue, you cannot afford me the same luxury. I am not drug addicted, I am not controlled for gain and I do not work the streets.

Your body language at the drinks reception afterwards spoke volumes, you turned your back on us and refused to enter into any further discussion. It's the last word in irony, in turning your back on the very women you purport to protect, you're actually doing so much more harm than good. Penalising the clients will only serve to drive this industry further under-ground, and it is then you will see the real nasties appear. Regulate it, make it legal and make sure that the welfare of the women is paramount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something that occurred to me today; for those of us who are registered and pay our taxes with HMRC, will they continue to collect our revenue if the proceeds are effectively made the proceeds of a crime ? :eek:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Something that occurred to me today; for those of us who are registered and pay our taxes with HMRC, will they continue to collect our revenue if the proceeds are effectively made the proceeds of a crime ? :eek:

i was thinking along those lines re the ng case where a confiscation order under the proceeds of crime act is due to take place,presumably tax was paid by ngs owners so if their assets are to be taken(stolen) by the govt

there was no point in paying tax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Julie Bindel's version of feminism has many similarities with Klu Klux Klan, the only difference is that she hates all men, not only black men.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Julie Bindel's version of feminism has many similarities with Klu Klux Klan, the only difference is that she hates all men, not only black men.

Sorry to tell you this, but she also hates trans-sexuals & describes women who enjoy heterosexual relationships/sex as "self-hating mysogenists"; not to mention her belief, as a "political lesbian", that sexual orientation is a condition thta can be cured with councelling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry to tell you this, but she also hates trans-sexuals & describes women who enjoy heterosexual relationships/sex as "self-hating mysogenists"; not to mention her belief, as a "political lesbian", that sexual orientation is a condition thta can be cured with councelling.

She should go live on a island then with her looney crew where the can hate us from afar and leave the rest of us alone. I know a few lesbians who cannot stand her and her screwed up seperatist, rabid ideas. Pfft. I believed that feminism meant sexual equality and liberation for women... how dare she try to demean choice. GRRRR. She's a sexual facist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
She should go live on a island then with her looney crew where the can hate us from afar and leave the rest of us alone. I know a few lesbians who cannot stand her and her screwed up seperatist, rabid ideas. Pfft. I believed that feminism meant sexual equality and liberation for women... how dare she try to demean choice. GRRRR. She's a sexual facist.

she does live on an island.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry to tell you this, but she also hates trans-sexuals & describes women who enjoy heterosexual relationships/sex as "self-hating mysogenists"; not to mention her belief, as a "political lesbian", that sexual orientation is a condition thta can be cured with councelling.

you forgot vegetarians...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2005/jun/13/foodanddrink

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading Scotland's proposals reminded me that there used to be until the 1930's a long Railway bridge across the Solway Firth. The Railway closed when the bridge was damaged by icebergs believe or not. After this the bridge was used by pedestrians to nip over to England for a drink on Sundays until it was finally demolished.

I wonder how many establishments will open in Berwick Upon Tweed and Wooler?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Liberal Democrat MSP claims the 2014 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow will bring "huge numbers" of women into Scotland who will be forced into prostitution.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/137290-prostitution-will-be-rife-at-commonwealth-games/

This is one of the standard lies, now parroted in relation to all sporting events. It is often linked to an assertion that the number of trafficked women found in Greece in 2004 (the Olympic year) was double that in the previous year.

So it maybe was, but the number was 181 and the total in the preceding years had fluctuated between 100-200, as noted sotto voce by Amnesty International, meaning that there was no jump----- 181 was well within the previous range. You will find the relevant numbers in item 3 of this link, second paragraph, alternatively just put 181 into the search facility & you'll hit it straight out:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR25/002/2007/en/1311a420-d38f-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/eur250022007en.html

There was a trafficking panic around the 2006 World Cup in Germany but, as the Lancet (of all papers) noted:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(06)68984-8/fulltext

It is depressing to see a Liberal spout this nonsense. On the whole the liberals have shown more sense and willingness to listen to evidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now