SEXYBLONDESURREYGIRL

Germaine Greer....you Have It So Wrong!

115 posts in this topic

As a teenager I grew up a militant feminist and devoured books by people like Germaine Greer, Naomi Wolf and Andrea Dworkin (!) and embraced the Riot Grrrrl music scene.

A few days ago I had front row tickets to a `talk' by Germaine Greer. Listening to her deride woman for "painting themselves like totem poles" "wearing shoes they can't walk in" and "the slavery of prostitution", I really had to bite my lip!

If I only I could have spoken up and told her, that infact "prostitution" is quite simply the only way for a working class gilr like myself to go to University and train for a career that will allow me independence from being reliant on say a husband (as if anyone would marry me anyway!) or state benefits, allow me not to live in poverty and to contribute to society, I'm sure we would have had a good debate, and I would have won!

Women of her generation don't have the massive tuition fees, student loans (debt for life) and living costs that working class girls have these days when trying to `better' themselves.

"prostitution" is liberation for many, many girls and women, especially thanks to sites that allow us to work safely and independently, like Adult Work.com. and not get ripped-off by agencies and `pimps'.

It allows us freedom and the chance to enjoy ourselves to those `liberated feminists' like myself who enjoy `male company' as well!!!!

She has it so wrong. Far more `enslaved' are the women of her generation (and younger) who marry men and are financially dependent on them, or those who will be in debt to the Student Loans Company for the rest of their lives, or those who slave away in crap jobs for minimum wage, or worse....those who live off benefits as single mothers.

"Prostitution" (NOT including trafficked foreign girls of course........) is liberation Germaine, NOT slavery, and I and many others are proof of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are different tiers of prostitution. I wish people would treat them as individual groups instead of lumping it all under one umbrella and tarnishing say escorts with the same brush as street girls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi ...Germaine Greer probably does not read this.........look here for her contact details via her agents: .http://www.fanmail.biz/2990.html

Do send your comments to her. When I see her on chat shows i find her to be rather petulant and pretty irrelevant to many of the issues under discussion

Good luck.............and be careful not to mention the other site again!

XX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a teenager I grew up a militant feminist and devoured books by people like Germaine Greer, Naomi Wolf and Andrea Dworkin (!) and embraced the Riot Grrrrl music scene.

A few days ago I had front row tickets to a `talk' by Germaine Greer. Listening to her deride woman for "painting themselves like totem poles" "wearing shoes they can't walk in" and "the slavery of prostitution", I really had to bite my lip!

If I only I could have spoken up and told her, that infact "prostitution" is quite simply the only way for a working class gilr like myself to go to University and train for a career that will allow me independence from being reliant on say a husband (as if anyone would marry me anyway!) or state benefits, allow me not to live in poverty and to contribute to society, I'm sure we would have had a good debate, and I would have won!

Women of her generation don't have the massive tuition fees, student loans (debt for life) and living costs that working class girls have these days when trying to `better' themselves.

"prostitution" is liberation for many, many girls and women, especially thanks to sites that allow us to work safely and independently, like Adult Work.com. and not get ripped-off by agencies and `pimps'.

It allows us freedom and the chance to enjoy ourselves to those `liberated feminists' like myself who enjoy `male company' as well!!!!

She has it so wrong. Far more `enslaved' are the women of her generation (and younger) who marry men and are financially dependent on them, or those who will be in debt to the Student Loans Company for the rest of their lives, or those who slave away in crap jobs for minimum wage, or worse....those who live off benefits as single mothers.

"Prostitution" (NOT including trafficked foreign girls of course........) is liberation Germaine, NOT slavery, and I and many others are proof of that.

Well said.

Shelly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a teenager I grew up a militant feminist and devoured books by people like Germaine Greer, Naomi Wolf and Andrea Dworkin (!) and embraced the Riot Grrrrl music scene.

A few days ago I had front row tickets to a `talk' by Germaine Greer. Listening to her deride woman for "painting themselves like totem poles" "wearing shoes they can't walk in" and "the slavery of prostitution", I really had to bite my lip!

If I only I could have spoken up and told her, that infact "prostitution" is quite simply the only way for a working class gilr like myself to go to University and train for a career that will allow me independence from being reliant on say a husband (as if anyone would marry me anyway!) or state benefits, allow me not to live in poverty and to contribute to society, I'm sure we would have had a good debate, and I would have won!

Women of her generation don't have the massive tuition fees, student loans (debt for life) and living costs that working class girls have these days when trying to `better' themselves.

"prostitution" is liberation for many, many girls and women, especially thanks to sites that allow us to work safely and independently, like Adult Work.com. and not get ripped-off by agencies and `pimps'.

It allows us freedom and the chance to enjoy ourselves to those `liberated feminists' like myself who enjoy `male company' as well!!!!

She has it so wrong. Far more `enslaved' are the women of her generation (and younger) who marry men and are financially dependent on them, or those who will be in debt to the Student Loans Company for the rest of their lives, or those who slave away in crap jobs for minimum wage, or worse....those who live off benefits as single mothers.

"Prostitution" (NOT including trafficked foreign girls of course........) is liberation Germaine, NOT slavery, and I and many others are proof of that.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Well said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't Germaine Greer now irrelevant, as she has now become part of the establishment she once derided. I would say she no longer lives up to her first name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've often remarked on here, and prob bored folks, on the frequency of meeting WGs who are financing themselves through education, both academic and vocational. More often than not they have been separated divorced whatever and rebuilding lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My idea of feminism is that a woman being able to do what she wants with her life and that both sexes have equality as far as is reasonable but also that accepting that in general there are differences between the sexes and understanding that.

If I hadn't started escorting I would either be back at my parents or living in some shitty shared room/bedsit. I am totally independent, self reliant, proud of myself and have a standard of living I am happy with (and this doesn't mean I am raking it in, living in a luxury penthouse wearing designer clothes!).

Surely this would be what Greer would want for most women?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrea Dworkin was fat and ugly. That is why she hated men. ( I hated her for calling all men rapists. This is obviously a falsehood because I am a man and have never raped or assaulted a woman ) If she were more attractive to men and men gave her some attention then prehaps her view of them would be different. Germaine Greer is an intelligent woman but knows nothing about working girls lives and is now just an old academic out of touch with the real world. Feminisim is out of date. Last time I had lunch with a female friend she insisted on paying, in the end I paid, not because I was condescending towards her, or she couldn't pay, but because I liked her so much and hadn't seen her for such a long time that I wanted to treat her. She inistds that the next time we meet she pays and when we meet again I will let her pay.

I often think that women are in any case more powerfull then men. Women can lead us and pursade us in a way that men could never do. And of course, if they are attractive then often I find myself thinking with my prick not my head, but then I think a lot of men can relate to that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, on further reading and thinking (I have time to waste cos I don't have to do the 9-5 grind!) it seems Greer is not against prostitution.

"Germaine Greer suggests that paying for sex is not the part of the sex industry that is the problem. She says that what is wrong is men who walk away without paying for the service that prostitutes provide, or men who abuse prostitutes."- Source: http://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/its-wrong-to-pay-for-sex

during this debate she said that selling sex was better than "selling a child, a kidney or your soul for long hours for wretched pay stacking shelves at Tesco".

Hmmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrea Dworkin was fat and ugly. That is why she hated men. ( I hated her for calling all men rapists. This is obviously a falsehood because I am a man and have never raped or assaulted a woman ) If she were more attractive to men and men gave her some attention then prehaps her view of them would be different. Germaine Greer is an intelligent woman but knows nothing about working girls lives and is now just an old academic out of touch with the real world. Feminisim is out of date. Last time I had lunch with a female friend she insisted on paying, in the end I paid, not because I was condescending towards her, or she couldn't pay, but because I liked her so much and hadn't seen her for such a long time that I wanted to treat her. She inistds that the next time we meet she pays and when we meet again I will let her pay.

I often think that women are in any case more powerfull then men. Women can lead us and pursade us in a way that men could never do. And of course, if they are attractive then often I find myself thinking with my prick not my head, but then I think a lot of men can relate to that!

Dworkin was certainly fat and ugly, but I hardly think that was why she hated men. She hadn't always been as she later became, and she actually worked as a prostitute at one stage in her life. She obviously suffered appalling abuse at the hands of men, but she wasn't actually a man hater as such, I think she just distrusted male sexuality. She lived with a gay man whom she was deeply attached to, and who loved her, albeit they were an unconventional couple.

She didn't say all men were rapists, but that intercourse was tantamount to rape. A subtle difference I grant, but she wasn't misanthropic, or the female equivalent of a misogynist. She came from a side of radical feminism that I don't agree with, and made some dubious alliances with the right in her war on porn. Her views on sex were a little extreme, and the 'rape' aspect of penetration is actually welcomed by most women, who enjoy being 'taken'.

My feelings about her is that it was a pity she became who she was, and thought how she did, which almost certainly was the result of bad experiences with men.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My idea of feminism is that a woman being able to do what she wants with her life and that both sexes have equality as far as is reasonable but also that accepting that in general there are differences between the sexes and understanding that.

If I hadn't started escorting I would either be back at my parents or living in some shitty shared room/bedsit. I am totally independent, self reliant, proud of myself and have a standard of living I am happy with (and this doesn't mean I am raking it in, living in a luxury penthouse wearing designer clothes!).

Surely this would be what Greer would want for most women?

Actually I think it is - I'm a big Greer fan - In this instance I believe that she may have been referring to the on-street game which for a lot of the girls is a form of drug enslavement - Elsewhere she has been much more relaxed about the off-street trade

Dworkin on the other hand was the traditional man-hater. A role model for La Bindel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, on further reading and thinking (I have time to waste cos I don't have to do the 9-5 grind!) it seems Greer is not against prostitution.

"Germaine Greer suggests that paying for sex is not the part of the sex industry that is the problem. She says that what is wrong is men who walk away without paying for the service that prostitutes provide, or men who abuse prostitutes."- Source: http://www.intellige...-to-pay-for-sex

during this debate she said that selling sex was better than "selling a child, a kidney or your soul for long hours for wretched pay stacking shelves at Tesco".

Hmmm.

Oops - posted on your other comment before reading this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is when people do studies on prostitution they base is on a sample of working ladies. The ladies they interview are almost all street walkers. They do not have access to agency escorts or parlours. They might interview some independent escorts. But most of the sample is skewed towards street walkers in red light district as they are the easy for someone carrying out a sample to contact. This therefore skews the general themes about prostitution in Britain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greer wrote one interesting book, the femal eunuch, but that was a long long time ago, it was genuinely groundbreaking,,,,,,,,,she is an academic who produces worthy tomes on diverse subjects, she is a keen gardener and lives in Cambridge, and goes on holiday in Tuscany,she is of no consequence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Dworkin was wrong to equate intercourse with rape. As Rimalot rightly says " the 'rape' aspect of penetration is actually welcomed by most women, who enjoy being 'taken'"

This is why women find phyiscally fit and taller men ( who are mostly stronger then shorter men ) sexually attractive. Women don't want to be raped, but they do like a strong man to possess her. Strong can also mean strong in character. So a tall, physically fit and confident man will have better luck with the ladies. A man who is weak physically and mentally is a total turn-off for women.

The act of intercourse is a physical act and does require some degree of force but not in a violent way, so to say intercourse is rape is total rubbish. This is where the myth of "no" really means "yes" come from. Some ladies will pretend that they don't want sex but then don't make a secret of wanting it either to the man she is with - so she wants the man to impose himself on her. Maybe the "no" is culturally indoctrinated because most women don't want to be labled as "easy" so they say "no" but then not too secretly mean "yes" by eye contact and touching etc. This is not rape,

Rape is violence. As a man I cannot understand how it is possible to be aroused while attacking a woman who clearly dosn't want to be any where near me.

I would be interested in what the female readers think? Do who like a strong man to "take" you in the right way or do you prefer feeble weaklings?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My idea of feminism is that a woman being able to do what she wants with her life and that both sexes have equality as far as is reasonable but also that accepting that in general there are differences between the sexes and understanding that.

If I hadn't started escorting I would either be back at my parents or living in some shitty shared room/bedsit. I am totally independent, self reliant, proud of myself and have a standard of living I am happy with (and this doesn't mean I am raking it in, living in a luxury penthouse wearing designer clothes!).

Surely this would be what Greer would want for most women?

Absolutely. The femi-nazis know this of course but dont want to admit it in the realm of prostitution as that wouldnt correlate with their agendas as it doesnt with most of the medias agenda of street working junkie prostitutes and perverted punters wearing macs. The reality doesnt fit this stereotype so they just perpetuate the myth. :(:)

Edited by smiths

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Dworkin was wrong to equate intercourse with rape. As Rimalot rightly says " the 'rape' aspect of penetration is actually welcomed by most women, who enjoy being 'taken'"

This is why women find phyiscally fit and taller men ( who are mostly stronger then shorter men ) sexually attractive. Women don't want to be raped, but they do like a strong man to possess her. Strong can also mean strong in character. So a tall, physically fit and confident man will have better luck with the ladies. A man who is weak physically and mentally is a total turn-off for women.

The act of intercourse is a physical act and does require some degree of force but not in a violent way, so to say intercourse is rape is total rubbish. This is where the myth of "no" really means "yes" come from. Some ladies will pretend that they don't want sex but then don't make a secret of wanting it either to the man she is with - so she wants the man to impose himself on her. Maybe the "no" is culturally indoctrinated because most women don't want to be labled as "easy" so they say "no" but then not too secretly mean "yes" by eye contact and touching etc. This is not rape,

Rape is violence. As a man I cannot understand how it is possible to be aroused while attacking a woman who clearly dosn't want to be any where near me.

I would be interested in what the female readers think? Do who like a strong man to "take" you in the right way or do you prefer feeble weaklings?

So which groupe do you fall into ,tall strong man or feeble weakling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I only I could have spoken up and told her, that infact "prostitution" is quite simply the only way for a working class gilr like myself to go to University and train for a career that will allow me independence from being reliant on say a husband (as if anyone would marry me anyway!) or state benefits, allow me not to live in poverty and to contribute to society, I'm sure we would have had a good debate, and I would have won!

Thousands of working class girls who have never worked as prostitutes forge successful careers. The ability to earn good money does not necessarily go side by side with a liberating empowered existence. Prostitution is a way of making good money, nothing more and nothing less. I think men have always needed women far more than women have needed men so I'm waiting for the day us blokes get liberated ! Seriously though, gender seems more and more irrelevant as year goes by and I just get the feeling we are all manipulated units that are conditioned to behave in a certain way. Maybe we should just be ourselves and stop judging others or advocating some form of normalcy. Life is far too complicated and there are far too many prominent ' shit stirrers that we gawp at for inspiration. Human beings are quite pathetic at times ( me very much included ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dworkin was certainly fat and ugly, but I hardly think that was why she hated men. She hadn't always been as she later became, and she actually worked as a prostitute at one stage in her life. She obviously suffered appalling abuse at the hands of men, but she wasn't actually a man hater as such, I think she just distrusted male sexuality. She lived with a gay man whom she was deeply attached to, and who loved her, albeit they were an unconventional couple.

She didn't say all men were rapists, but that intercourse was tantamount to rape. A subtle difference I grant, but she wasn't misanthropic, or the female equivalent of a misogynist. She came from a side of radical feminism that I don't agree with, and made some dubious alliances with the right in her war on porn. Her views on sex were a little extreme, and the 'rape' aspect of penetration is actually welcomed by most women, who enjoy being 'taken'.

My feelings about her is that it was a pity she became who she was, and thought how she did, which almost certainly was the result of bad experiences with men.

I don't think that saying intercourse was tantamount to rape is much of a difference once we acknowledge that men want intercourse and I believe she did say that ALL intercourse was tantamount to rape. Lots of the laws and bills she and Catherine MacKinnon supported were evil. However, Christopher Hitchens thought she was ok, so maybe I'm dwelling on one part of what she did, but I didn't think any better of her after seeing her on one of those late night discussion shows on early Channel 4 long ago.

Oh, and let's start a campaign to get sexyblondesurrygirl a husband!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like most men I am somewhere inbetween. Neither the tallest or the shortest, neither the strongest or the weakest. I have had quite a lot of success outside of punting, espeacially when I was younger, although only recently a lady at work asked me out for a drink so some of the old magic is still there!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that saying intercourse was tantamount to rape is much of a difference once we acknowledge that men want intercourse and I believe she did say that ALL intercourse was tantamount to rape.

Andrea Dworkin in her book 'Intercourse' wrote "Physically, the woman in intercourse is a space inhabited, a literal territory occupied literally: occupied even if there has been no resistance, no force; even if the occupied person said yes…".

I don't think it's Germaine Greer we should be worried about. More worrying are Julie Bindel and Finn Mackay. They both campaign to criminalize punters. They say that prostitution is the buying and selling of women's bodies, and that men think they have a right to access to women's bodies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrea Dworkin in her book 'Intercourse' wrote "Physically, the woman in intercourse is a space inhabited, a literal territory occupied literally: occupied even if there has been no resistance, no force; even if the occupied person said yes…".

I don't think it's Germaine Greer we should be worried about. More worrying are Julie Bindel and Finn Mackay. They both campaign to criminalize punters. They say that prostitution is the buying and selling of women's bodies, and that men think they have a right to access to women's bodies.

Indeed so, Bindel fully realizes many WGs do it out of personal choice but she ignores that fact in her pursuit of her agenda which includes criminalizing punters which would result in it going further underground putting WGs at more risk than ever. The warped thinking of a woman on a crusade who discounts all sense and reason just like Harriet Harperson did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed so, Bindel fully realizes many WGs do it out of personal choice

She thinks that WGs that do it out of choice are a tiny minority. This is what she said in a recent radio discussion.

"You cannot make a law for the minority, you have to make law and policy for the majority. If you have a group of privileged women who are lucky enough to have a home in the Cotswolds, putting her children through private school; she's never been raped, she's never been pimped, she's never contracted HIV. Good luck to her, we'll never meet her."

And later she repeated herself "we cannot make laws to suit the privileged minority, we just can't." I could agree with her on that, because I know that all the evidence shows that most WGs are not coerced. She thinks that most WGs have been raped or pimped or have contracted HIV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now