willbred

Bbc 5 Live Debate This Morning

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Listening to the radio whilst stuck in a traffic jam this morning, I was drawn to the debate which started around the news item that ( surprise) a large number of students were getting involved in "the sex industry" as a way of funding their studies. The discussion broadened into the area of prostitution generally and I felt retained a good balance. Of particular interest was the interview with a very experienced Glasgow based escort, I believe by the name of " Laura Lee" who not only set the case out for her profession admirably in discussion with Nicky Campbell but also strongly dealt with the patronising and stereotypical approach taken by his female co- presenter (the usual presumptions - all WGs are trafficked / on drugs/controlled by pimps)

Good radio. Laura came across very well - a credit to her profession!!

Any other members catch this??

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There is an article on the BBC website. Only takes one side of the story, girl forced into it by financial pressures of paying for student fees,

Bit skeptical about it though as she says (paraphrasing) that she had a friend who ran an escort agency and he was trying to get her into the business from the age of 16 when she would have still been in school. So even before she was a higher education student she had been exposed to the industry by this person. Not a typical story but one that suited the BBCs agenda of coercion from a preditor.

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Listening to the radio whilst stuck in a traffic jam this morning, I was drawn to the debate which started around the news item that ( surprise) a large number of students were getting involved in "the sex industry" as a way of funding their studies. The discussion broadened into the area of prostitution generally and I felt retained a good balance. Of particular interest was the interview with a very experienced Glasgow based escort, I believe by the name of " Laura Lee" who not only set the case out for her profession admirably in discussion with Nicky Campbell but also strongly dealt with the patronising and stereotypical approach taken by his female co- presenter (the usual presumptions - all WGs are trafficked / on drugs/controlled by pimps) Good radio. Laura came across very well - a credit to her profession!! Any other members catch this??

I didnt listen to this but hope Laura will post her opinion on how it went.

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Is it the same Laura Lee that posted on here 6/9 saying she was thinking of becoming an escort ??!!

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Here’s the show – it’s on every hour, so skip forward to about 00:05, 01:05. And 02:05

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b017wygl/5_live_Breakfast_14_12_2011/

Here’s the link to the phone-in :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b017wygn/5_live_Breakfast_Your_Call_Sex_work_easy_or_tough_choice/

Here’s the online article :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16157522

Thanks for all your help, and keep in touch in the future

This is Laura Lee as in the Scottish Glasgow escort who posts on this site.

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There is an article on the BBC website. Only takes one side of the story, girl forced into it by financial pressures of paying for student fees,

Bit skeptical about it though as she says (paraphrasing) that she had a friend who ran an escort agency and he was trying to get her into the business from the age of 16 when she would have still been in school. So even before she was a higher education student she had been exposed to the industry by this person. Not a typical story but one that suited the BBCs agenda of coercion from a preditor.

Yes I heard that from the interview, (Not Laura Lee) . Obviously not a good guy or escort agency trying to get an illegal aged women into prostitution.

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*the patronising and stereotypical approach taken by his female co- presenter (the usual presumptions - all WGs are trafficked / on drugs/controlled by pimps)*

Women are just like a stuck record on this issue, whatever the evidence. In truth, they are just frightened of men ignoring them for the of fresh, young, attractive WGs. Of, course they can never admit this to themselves or anyone else.

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Isn't this exactly what the members of this board predicted would happen? hardly surprising that the media circus immediately panders to the veiw that all the girls are "taking to the streets" and good to see that at least some sensible voices are being heard

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The irony is that the report on students turning to the 'sex industry' for extra money is based on anecdotal evidence (as said in the article), but the BBC is quite happy to hold it as a fact and lead with headlines about the scandal of it. This is at the same time as extensively covering the Leveson inquiry in to media ethics, and how the media spin rumour, gossip, and anecdotal evidence in to headline grabbing news, without considering the facts.

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Yes, it is indeed anecdotal evidence and not based on any form of primary or corrobative research.

Take cities like York, Sheffield, Cardiff, Birmingham, Bath, Bristol and Leeds, all have a big student population. Using the purple site as a guide, there is no real increase or decrease in ladies aged between 18-24 offering their services that there was five years ago. That age range is one I particularly search for, so I think I know what I am talking about. I have had some great sessions with Uni students - one just 10 days ago, so am not denying they offer sex, it's not as widespread as they claim. I always ask if they have a friend for a 3-some and draw a blank.

Everyone believed the drivel in the News of the World until the phone hacking scandal exploded in their faces when they were caught lying. How do we know that what the BBC has any more grains of truth than a NotW story? We dont, but we tend to trust the BBC, as a rule.

In my day job I get called by the BBC between 6-9 times a year to go on air and discuss a particular subject, and when the researcher calls, we exchange views that helps them form an opinion on whether they want to talk to me later. Twice now, I've contradicted their story angle because I am in a better postion with the facts than they are, and they didnt like it, and said that wasnt the stance they wanted to portray. I said I was not prepared to go on air and risk my reputation to say something I knew was not true or did not believe in.

Talk about twisting the facts !

This stdent escorting story is nothing but an urban myth. More girls are not turning to escorting, what the BBC may have stumbled on is that more girls are ADMITTING they do, which just distorts the figures and make the Beeb believe an upward trend is in motion.

Stil, a journalist never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

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Listening to the radio whilst stuck in a traffic jam this morning, I was drawn to the debate which started around the news item that ( surprise) a large number of students were getting involved in "the sex industry" as a way of funding their studies. The discussion broadened into the area of prostitution generally and I felt retained a good balance. Of particular interest was the interview with a very experienced Glasgow based escort, I believe by the name of " Laura Lee" who not only set the case out for her profession admirably in discussion with Nicky Campbell but also strongly dealt with the patronising and stereotypical approach taken by his female co- presenter (the usual presumptions - all WGs are trafficked / on drugs/controlled by pimps)

Good radio. Laura came across very well - a credit to her profession!!

Any other members catch this??

Thank you very much. :ph34r:

I didnt listen to this but hope Laura will post her opinion on how it went.

Certainly. There were 17,000 things that I thought about saying in the immediate aftermath but that's always the way

with a debate, isn't it ? It was my first time in a verbal debate where I had to think as opposed to type and from that

perspective was truly terrifying.

Is it the same Laura Lee that posted on here 6/9 saying she was thinking of becoming an escort ??!!

Err, I hope not or else I'm having a severe identity crisis. :D

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I didn't hear the debate but I heard the brief report on the early news about students "turning to the sex industry" to fund their studies. This is an old story that has been doing the rounds for 3 or 4 years. Presumably the BBC hadn't got much news to report this morning so they decided to drag out this old chestnut again!

It does make my blood boil that the same old stereotypes are always trotted out about prostitution when a story like this emerges. All the girls are forced into it and they're all street-walkers (and probably on drugs as well). Well done to Laura Lee if you managed to successfully portray a more balanced side to the debate.

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Great job, Laura! You undoubtedly made some people realise that the scene is NOT all coerced and pimped women, and that this is indeed a legitimate and honourable profession. We need more intelligent, articulate ladies to speak up and continue to debunk some of the prevalent myths and misconceptions.

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The first Indy I ever who became my regular for over two years was in her early 30's. As well as being an escort, she worked 3 days a week in a routine job and was at Birkbeck two days week as part of her plan for the future. Apart from that she told me that both her bank manager and accountant knew she was an employee, escort and student.

That was 30 years ago, before Radio 5Live or the BBC News website was even born!

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Great job, Laura! You undoubtedly made some people realise that the scene is NOT all coerced and pimped women, and that this is indeed a legitimate and honourable profession. We need more intelligent, articulate ladies to speak up and continue to debunk some of the prevalent myths and misconceptions.

Think G`s hit the nail on the head here, Laura`s view and opinions came across very well indeed,(seeing as she was up and 6am and out the house, then having to start the interview on her phone in the back of the Taxi as he was lost?!) and I thougt the whole debate went well, with views from all sides of the spectrum making valid points. Not too sure about Peter G-stringfellow though, but I never have been! :blink:

Edited by bricktop

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Just listened to the phone in, well done Laura Lee. It must have been so frustrating with that silly woman Ann - though she does reflect the average completely baseless opinions women have about this. You came across really well I thought, and I am sure you had loads more to say, but every little bit of a positive logical voice we can give to public false assumptions helps demystify and break down the stigma. Good on you!

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I see there are mp3 downloads of the 5 live interview and phone in on the iusw website, so can be downloaded and listened to as a podcast.

I thought it was good, it was a shame Laura was not kept on after Finn Mackay was brought on. There was nobody left to argue the facts with this abolitionist who got away with no challenge on a number of lies.

http://www.iusw.org/2011/12/nus-students-turning-to-prostitution-to-fund-studies/

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Yes, it is indeed anecdotal evidence and not based on any form of primary or corrobative research. Take cities like York, Sheffield, Cardiff, Birmingham, Bath, Bristol and Leeds, all have a big student population. Using the purple site as a guide, there is no real increase or decrease in ladies aged between 18-24 offering their services that there was five years ago. That age range is one I particularly search for, so I think I know what I am talking about. I have had some great sessions with Uni students - one just 10 days ago, so am not denying they offer sex, it's not as widespread as they claim. I always ask if they have a friend for a 3-some and draw a blank. Everyone believed the drivel in the News of the World until the phone hacking scandal exploded in their faces when they were caught lying. How do we know that what the BBC has any more grains of truth than a NotW story? We dont, but we tend to trust the BBC, as a rule. In my day job I get called by the BBC between 6-9 times a year to go on air and discuss a particular subject, and when the researcher calls, we exchange views that helps them form an opinion on whether they want to talk to me later. Twice now, I've contradicted their story angle because I am in a better postion with the facts than they are, and they didnt like it, and said that wasnt the stance they wanted to portray. I said I was not prepared to go on air and risk my reputation to say something I knew was not true or did not believe in. Talk about twisting the facts ! This stdent escorting story is nothing but an urban myth. More girls are not turning to escorting, what the BBC may have stumbled on is that more girls are ADMITTING they do, which just distorts the figures and make the Beeb believe an upward trend is in motion. Stil, a journalist never lets the facts get in the way of a good story.

Well said.

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. In truth, they are just frightened of men ignoring them for the of fresh, young, attractive WGs. Of, course they can never admit this to themselves or anyone else.

A tad misoginistic of you there. There are many reasons why we punt and it's not necessarilly for the reasons you state.

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Great job, Laura! You undoubtedly made some people realise that the scene is NOT all coerced and pimped women, and that this is indeed a legitimate and honourable profession. We need more intelligent, articulate ladies to speak up and continue to debunk some of the prevalent myths and misconceptions.

Problem here is that some of those myths and preconceptions are spot on. It's finding middle ground that is the difficult one, not telling people how awful it is one one side of the coin and then others saying how great it can be. There are girls and women who are pimped and coerced and bullied within the umbrella of punting. Believe me, I see it frst hand so it's definitely not government propaganda as some on here would have us believe.

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Problem here is that some of those myths and preconceptions are spot on. It's finding middle ground that is the difficult one, not telling people how awful it is one one side of the coin and then others saying how great it can be. There are girls and women who are pimped and coerced and bullied within the umbrella of punting. Believe me, I see it frst hand so it's definitely not government propaganda as some on here would have us believe.

Except that they're not, the myth is that ALL women are coerced and/or pimped, one side of the debate recognises that while the majority of the industry is perfectly above board and respectable that coersion/pimping does go on, is immoral and should be pursued and crushed with the full force of the law, the other side simply refuses to believe that there is any possiblity of there being any reason other than coersion/pimping for a woman to be in this line of work and that that full force of the law should be turned on everyone involved.

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Great job, Laura! You undoubtedly made some people realise that the scene is NOT all coerced and pimped women, and that this is indeed a legitimate and honourable profession. We need more intelligent, articulate ladies to speak up and continue to debunk some of the prevalent myths and misconceptions.

Concur - You're a star Laura

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Except that they're not, the myth is that ALL women are coerced and/or pimped, one side of the debate recognises that while the majority of the industry is perfectly above board and respectable that coersion/pimping does go on, is immoral and should be pursued and crushed with the full force of the law, the other side simply refuses to believe that there is any possiblity of there being any reason other than coersion/pimping for a woman to be in this line of work and that that full force of the law should be turned on everyone involved.

Exactly. Well said. :)

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The NUS estimated a figure. No research. Students have always worked as lap dancers and escorts.

It's nonsense to suggest that they do this to pay student fees, since they don't get charged until completion of the course and once earning a certain salary. This is just akin to getting a part time job in a bar or restaurant, just better paid.

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