Poshfella

Is A Topless Massage With He By A Qualified Massage Therapist Still Prostitution

86 posts in this topic

Just wondering if I see a massage lady who has training in massage etc and she offers a good massage and does HE and goes topless too then is that still classed as prostitution or is she still considered to be a working girl (prostitute).... Im curious as Ive met a few of these ladies and most have been very polite and often quite well spoken. I would never expect to have a full service or even dare to ask this kind of lady for a full service. Plus I have always recieved a good massage. I love a good massage at my age rather than anything more. Your comments/views welcome

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She would probably scream blue murder if you said it but yes of course what she is doing is perfectly legal and is prostitution.

IF a lady gives you a HE and it is NOT sexual then she is doing it wrong.

A sexual service in return for money is prostitution.

*Sits in deckchair, get's out popcorn and waits expectantly*

Edited by Ghenghis

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*Sits in deckchair, get's out popcorn and waits expectantly*

And I wouldn't want to disappoint...

This issue comes up with frequency and I have to disagree with Ghengis, who otherwise is a wise, generous and sage gentleman. Sure, one can take the absolutist line and say that if she wanks you off for money (dressed or undressed) then she is providing a sexual service for a fee and therefore she is, ipso facto, a prostitute. But to me, there is a subtler difference and is often a question of attitude and those two wonderful acronyms WSWS and YMMV. Those are the reasons why so many of us spend time in the world of FBSM and eschew the mainstream of paid sex. That is why so many of us put time and money into repeat visits with the same therapist which can often result in an increasing level of service. For me, I enjoy the chase and the seduction process - which, I guess, hides from myself the fact that I am a sad old man who won't admit that I have to pay for sex. But that's another story.

With a bona fide prostitute, you give her money and she sucks and fucks you. End of story. No messing. That is her main business offering. With FBSM, the only certain thing on offer is a a massage with maybe something else... And that "maybe" may entirely depend on the punter; on his attitude, charm, good-looks, whatever. I like to think of my additional cash contributions in the world of FBSM as less prostitution and more "compensated dating" to quote a subtle Japanese definition.

Gentlemen (and ladies - this topic normally attracts several contributions from misandristic old toms from the main board) start your engines... (This should be fun).

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start your engines... (This should be fun).

And it's going to get a lot more fun.

I won't spoil the suspense, in fact I'll try to build it.

Who remembers the true identity of Poshfella, the OP here?

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ry rarely bother with escorts/FS providers as I do love a good massage and the feeling that the girls and ladies themselves don't see themselves as prostitutes. A sad illusion, I know, but it still rather adds to the whole event. And on nice's point about building a rapport - well it does often go "all the way". event. And on nice's point about building a rapport - well it does often go "all the way".

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I would say , even money doesn't have to change hands . If you give her gifts etc in return for sexual favours this is prostitution . They just don't like to admit it .

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To offer any service where the client is knowingly caused to become aroused is offering a sexual service

If to offer a sexual service is to be a prostitute, so be it

So be this too...

If a client arrives for a straight massage and the lady tempts him into purchasing sexual services, she has solicited him

And if a client arrives for a straight massage, and as a result of building rapport with his masseuse sexual services happen in exchange for money, he has enticed or groomed her into prostitution

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And it's going to get a lot more fun.

I won't spoil the suspense, in fact I'll try to build it.

Who remembers the true identity of Poshfella, the OP here?

Lol - I do! I do!

Edited by Jimmy Bond

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Lol - I do! I do!

How do you know and will you let us all into the secret.

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Not sexual service according to Bill 'I did not have sex with that woman' Clinton, even if the masseuse put her mouth on his **. Its not prostition then!

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To offer any service where the client is knowingly caused to become aroused is offering a sexual service

If to offer a sexual service is to be a prostitute, so be it

So be this too...

If a client arrives for a straight massage and the lady tempts him into purchasing sexual services, she has solicited him

And if a client arrives for a straight massage, and as a result of building rapport with his masseuse sexual services happen in exchange for money, he has enticed or groomed her into prostitution

Did I mention misandristic old tom? I should be a fortune-teller. I would make a fortune. Misandristic? Look it up.

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Hate's an emotion, I thought we were talking facts. Least I know what I am - Niceguymax, pah !

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How do you know and will you let us all into the secret.

I seem to remember that Ghenghis, in his then role of moderator, was instrumental in "outing" her more than a year ago.

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And I wouldn't want to disappoint...

This issue comes up with frequency and I have to disagree with Ghengis, who otherwise is a wise, generous and sage gentleman. Sure, one can take the absolutist line and say that if she wanks you off for money (dressed or undressed) then she is providing a sexual service for a fee and therefore she is, ipso facto, a prostitute. But to me, there is a subtler difference and is often a question of attitude and those two wonderful acronyms WSWS and YMMV. Those are the reasons why so many of us spend time in the world of FBSM and eschew the mainstream of paid sex. That is why so many of us put time and money into repeat visits with the same therapist which can often result in an increasing level of service. For me, I enjoy the chase and the seduction process - which, I guess, hides from myself the fact that I am a sad old man who won't admit that I have to pay for sex. But that's another story.

With a bona fide prostitute, you give her money and she sucks and fucks you. End of story. No messing. That is her main business offering. With FBSM, the only certain thing on offer is a a massage with maybe something else... And that "maybe" may entirely depend on the punter; on his attitude, charm, good-looks, whatever. I like to think of my additional cash contributions in the world of FBSM as less prostitution and more "compensated dating" to quote a subtle Japanese definition.

Gentlemen (and ladies - this topic normally attracts several contributions from misandristic old toms from the main board) start your engines... (This should be fun).

I tend to agree with you. It seems to be a sensible way to look at it..... I just don't quite understand how the massage lady is doing a sexual service for money if you have paid her for a massage only. And for example so does not ask for more money and just does HE maybe you have "charmed her or whatever". By the way what is FBSM?

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I seem to remember that Ghenghis, in his then role of moderator, was instrumental in "outing" her more than a year ago.

I'm amazed at what some of you chaps seem to remember of the discussions here. I thought I spent half my life hanging around this place, but some of you leave me standing.

As regards the OP's question, I can't help feeling that giving access to her orifices should be part of a prostitute's job description.

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I'm amazed at what some of you chaps seem to remember of the discussions here.

Ah, yes, but this young (?) lady practises just a few miles from where I used to live so has some local interest.

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As the question is in the legalities section, presumably it should be answered from a legal perspective.

"Prostitute" is defined in section 51(2) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 as:

"A person who, on at least one occasion and whether or not compelled to do so, offers or provides sexual services to another person in return for payment or a promise of payment to that person or a third person."

and "Sexual services" is defined in section 4(4) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003: the service provided is sexual if it involved penetration of B's anus or vagina, penetration of B's mouth with a person's penis, penetration of a person's anus or vagina with a part of B's body or with anything else, or penetration of a person's mouth with B's penis.

Therefore a massage with a HE is not a sexual service as defined, so the person who provides it is not a prostitute.

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As the question is in the legalities section, presumably it should be answered from a legal perspective.

"Prostitute" is defined in section 51(2) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 as:

"A person who, on at least one occasion and whether or not compelled to do so, offers or provides sexual services to another person in return for payment or a promise of payment to that person or a third person."

and "Sexual services" is defined in section 4(4) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003: the service provided is sexual if it involved penetration of B's anus or vagina, penetration of B's mouth with a person's penis, penetration of a person's anus or vagina with a part of B's body or with anything else, or penetration of a person's mouth with B's penis.

Therefore a massage with a HE is not a sexual service as defined, so the person who provides it is not a prostitute.

I am virtually certain that this interpretaion is incorrect. For example, I believe that the definition you have quoted in section 4(4) does not actually relate to section 51(2).

However I will leave it to one of the more knowledgeable legal minds on the forum to offer a fuller rebuttal.

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As the question is in the legalities section, presumably it should be answered from a legal perspective.

"Prostitute" is defined in section 51(2) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 as:

"A person who, on at least one occasion and whether or not compelled to do so, offers or provides sexual services to another person in return for payment or a promise of payment to that person or a third person."

and "Sexual services" is defined in section 4(4) of the Sexual Offences Act 2003: the service provided is sexual if it involved penetration of B's anus or vagina, penetration of B's mouth with a person's penis, penetration of a person's anus or vagina with a part of B's body or with anything else, or penetration of a person's mouth with B's penis.

Therefore a massage with a HE is not a sexual service as defined, so the person who provides it is not a prostitute.

You're only partly correct.

The correct definition of "sexual" is contained in section 78 and not section 4(4).

Section 4(4) specifically relates to section 4 only (Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent). All section 4(4) says is that if you cause a person to engage in sexual activity without consent and that sexual activity involves penetration then the maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

http://www.legislati...03/42/section/4

Section 78 states:

"For the purposes of this Part (except section 71), penetration, touching or any other activity is sexual if a reasonable person would consider that—

(a)whatever its circumstances or any person’s purpose in relation to it, it is because of its nature sexual, or.

(b)because of its nature it may be sexual and because of its circumstances or the purpose of any person in relation to it (or both) it is sexual."

I'm in no doubt that a topless massage with a HE is a "sexual service" and that for the purposes of the SOA 2003 the person providing such a service is deemed a prostitute.

I'm sure that we've covered this before. Hence Jimmy B's comment above.

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You're only partly correct.

The correct definition of "sexual" is contained in section 78 and not section 4(4).

Section 4(4) specifically relates to section 4 only (Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent). All section 4(4) says is that if you cause a person to engage in sexual activity without consent and that sexual activity involves penetration then the maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

http://www.legislati...03/42/section/4

Section 78 states:

"For the purposes of this Part (except section 71), penetration, touching or any other activity is sexual if a reasonable person would consider that—

(a)whatever its circumstances or any person’s purpose in relation to it, it is because of its nature sexual, or.

(b)because of its nature it may be sexual and because of its circumstances or the purpose of any person in relation to it (or both) it is sexual."

I'm in no doubt that a topless massage with a HE is a "sexual service" and that for the purposes of the SOA 2003 the person providing such a service is deemed a prostitute.

I'm sure that we've covered this before. Hence Jimmy B's comment above.

it still leaves me confused...... i thought you have to have sex ... penetration .. (and pay for sex for the lady to be a prostitute). In my intital question I was trying to say if I paid a lady for a massage...for her services as a massage person and no sex was mentioned and I got a happy ending then I obviously did NOT pay her for that (did not pay any extra fee for HE) ...whetther you consider the HE to be a sex act or not?... also I got told escorts arnt prostitutes because you dont pay them for sex...you pay them for their time etc...... ?... The legal stuff leaves me confused.

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Hate's an emotion, I thought we were talking facts. Least I know what I am - Niceguymax, pah !

That is the last thing you are Lilly... I think he should be called Preposterousguymax!

Back on topic. When offereing my service of a quailfied masseuse who gave HR, I did not define myself as a prostitute. However, I had no problem if anyone had the personal opinion that I was.

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That is the last thing you are Lilly... I think he should be called Preposterousguymax!

Thanks Louisa :)

Insults like that normally say more about the insulter than the so called insulted anyway :cool:

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it still leaves me confused...... i thought you have to have sex ... penetration .. (and pay for sex for the lady to be a prostitute). In my intital question I was trying to say if I paid a lady for a massage...for her services as a massage person and no sex was mentioned and I got a happy ending then I obviously did NOT pay her for that (did not pay any extra fee for HE) ...whetther you consider the HE to be a sex act or not?... also I got told escorts arnt prostitutes because you dont pay them for sex...you pay them for their time etc...... ?... The legal stuff leaves me confused.

Can anybody explain ....

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I think HE, which involvs the provider touching the punters geitals is deffo a sexual service. as she is doing it for money, that makes her a prostitute.

Anyway, the FS providers only get paid for time, and any sexual activity that takes place is a matter between consenting adults.

I think the law will look at the activities and will consider it sexal, and therfore prostitution, if there is any touching of genitals by the person who does not own them.

I know the FSBM guys want to think they are not involved in seeing prostitutes and therefore not cheating on their partners but that is a dilusion -sorry

this of course becomes important when several providers are sharing an address. if they are legally defined prostitutes then thie address becomes a brothel, and they have stepped over the line into illegality.

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...... i thought you have to have sex ... penetration .. (and pay for sex for the lady to be a prostitute). In my intital question I was trying to say if I paid a lady for a massage...for her services as a massage person and no sex was mentioned and I got a happy ending then I obviously did NOT pay her for that (did not pay any extra fee for HE) ...whetther you consider the HE to be a sex act or not?... also I got told escorts arnt prostitutes because you dont pay them for sex...you pay them for their time etc...... ?...

No.

A masseuse who provides HR/HE is providing a sexual service, and for the purposes of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 is deemed a prostitute.

It doesn't matter what she calls herself, whether that be escort, masseuse or courtesan - she's still a prostitute.

In the vast majority of cases the "time and companionship" disclaimers are both unecessary and useless. It's not illegal to be a prostitute. If you're providing a sexual service for payment then you're a prostitute no matter what your disclaimer may say. If you put a Ferrari badge on a Cortina then it doesn't make it a Ferrari. If your local crack-house puts up a sign saying "We don't sell drugs here" but still sell crack then it's illegal.

There are of course some masseuses who don't touch genitalia. They're not prostitutes. There are social escorts who don't offer a sexual service. They accompany guys to theatres, restaurants etc. and keep their clothes on. They're not prostitutes.

Time and companionship disclaimers usually come with the website template as "boilerplate" clauses . People include them because everyone else does. They do no harm but are unnecessary, except possibly for agencies.

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