Louisa Leigh

I Can't Believe In This Day And Age.......................

23 posts in this topic

that parlours are still dictating to girls where they can work!

I get it if its very local, like in the same city but not what I have heard in the last few days.

I remember years back when I still did parlour work that if you worked in Manchester the places prefered you not to work very close to where you already worked but don't understand how as a self employed person they think they can dictate or girls are letting them?

Girls I'm interested in your views on this aswell as the guys of course!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure the legal experts will have their views on "Restraint of Trade" but it would be a very brave lady to approach any sort of tribunal with a case on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do parlour girls sign an employment contract?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do parlour girls sign an employment contract?

As they are usually deemed to be self-employed, they cannot sign an employement contract.

Perhaps a standard contract. However, what are the chances of a parlour owner then subsequently

obtaining an injuction to prevent you from working within xx miles of their premises.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that parlours are still dictating to girls where they can work!

I get it if its very local, like in the same city but not what I have heard in the last few days.

I remember years back when I still did parlour work that if you worked in Manchester the places prefered you not to work very close to where you already worked but don't understand how as a self employed person they think they can dictate or girls are letting them?

Girls I'm interested in your views on this aswell as the guys of course!

More the point, why would a girl want to work at several parlours within the same vicinity?

I would have thought that when a parlour has a good reputation offering nice facilities with a friendly atmosphere any girl would not need dictating to and would offer her loyalty through personal choice and good will.

I am not surprised that parlours do not approve of girls who work for them flitting from one competitor to the next as some girls a deemed exclusive to certain parlours.

Working in another town or city at a different parlour is a different matter.

Edited by SpoksEyebrows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SE,

You'll be surprised. There are a few girls in the East Mids whom I'm tracking in my Hot List on the other site.

In a typical week x2 parlours in Leicester, x1 in Lutterworth and x1 in Sheff (and also working from home/flat at the same time).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do parlour girls sign an employment contract?

no. there are no employee rights as brothels are technically illegal. because the WG has zero rights as an employee, why should the massage parlour get to have any rights as an employer? as in why do they have the right to say where girls work? girls can gets sacked and fined for no reason...it happens all the time, and happened to me. it angers me that massage parlours think they have any rights over girls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I would NEVER be told where I can work by ANYONE.

I've heard of quite a few places who are doing this and even know of one parlour who is phoning other parlour owners arguing over girls.

IMHO completely wrong and nothing more than PIMPING.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could understand a parlour telling a girl/lady that they would PREFER a girl not to work at another establishment in very close proximity ie within a 5-10 mile area but to DICTATE or give an ultimatum to a girl is completely out of order in my opinion.

I understand that ladies would probably want to work extra days in other towns, or even counties and to try and restrict that would surely come within the boundaries of "control for gain" ?

Its certainly a restriction that I would never consider even attempting to impose on ANY girl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no. there are no employee rights as brothels are technically illegal. because the WG has zero rights as an employee, why should the massage parlour get to have any rights as an employer? as in why do they have the right to say where girls work? girls can gets sacked and fined for no reason...it happens all the time, and happened to me. it angers me that massage parlours think they have any rights over girls.

Sex workers do have some rights and can get support and knowledge regarding lagal stance @ www.iusw.org

I think that a little knowledge would give some wg's in parlours a bit more confidence sticking up for themselves with the unscrupulous parlour owners. I am lucky to have worked with some fantastic women who own parlours, there are sadly some bad apples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We encourage girls to work in other areas and other parlours as girls talk and we've got some great girls on our books now due word of mouth referrals. In my opinion it is the best way to recruit. I've made friends with lots of other parlour owners thanks to the girls.

When I first opened The Club I had a fall out with another Parlour and girls were told by the Parlour if they worked for me, they couldnt work for them. I think it was because of the personal fallout rather than anything else though.. Ridiculous as the girls suffered not us. I believe the rule is still in place.

Recently I had a girl walk out half way through her shift in tears as another establishment (30 miles away from us) had told her she couldnt work in both places as Birmingham was too near to hers.

If its in the same town fair enough, girls are gonna try other places when it goes quiet for them, nature of this industry, nothing more but "controlling" and if anyone tried to dictate to me where I could work, I wouldnt be working for them anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I could understand a parlour telling a girl/lady that they would PREFER a girl not to work at another establishment in very close proximity ie within a 5-10 mile area but to DICTATE or give an ultimatum to a girl is completely out of order in my opinion. I understand that ladies would probably want to work extra days in other towns, or even counties and to try and restrict that would surely come within the boundaries of "control for gain" ? Its certainly a restriction that I would never consider even attempting to impose on ANY girl.

If you take a cut of a WGs fee its illegal whether an Establishment tries to restrict her free movement or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you take a cut of a WGs fee its illegal whether an Establishment tries to restrict her free movement or not.

Oh I see !

So that means its ok to just go the whole hog and go for full CONTROL then ?

Carte Blanche for container loads of Eastern Europeans and Oriental ladies to be trafficked in too ?

Lets not bother at least trying to make things better huh ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh I see ! So that means its ok to just go the whole hog and go for full CONTROL then ? Carte Blanche for container loads of Eastern Europeans and Oriental ladies to be trafficked in too ? Lets not bother at least trying to make things better huh ?
No you didnt see at all. No idea where you get this from, i didnt post any such thing. In my view brothels should be legalised as i have posted on here many times. Sadly i dont have the power to make that happen. I have consistently called for much much tougher sentences on here for traffickers and even those women who agree to be trafficked on a Bond i find repulsive as a thread i posted up some time ago now showed.

All WGs should have total freedom to choose where they work, its in fact to my mind no business of another Establishments where she works when not for them. As to making things better on this matter thats down to the Establishments who try to restrict a WGs free choice to change their ways in my view.

Edited by smiths

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We encourage girls to work in other areas and other parlours as girls talk and we've got some great girls on our books now due word of mouth referrals. In my opinion it is the best way to recruit. I've made friends with lots of other parlour owners thanks to the girls.

When I first opened The Club I had a fall out with another Parlour and girls were told by the Parlour if they worked for me, they couldnt work for them. I think it was because of the personal fallout rather than anything else though.. Ridiculous as the girls suffered not us. I believe the rule is still in place.

Recently I had a girl walk out half way through her shift in tears as another establishment (30 miles away from us) had told her she couldnt work in both places as Birmingham was too near to hers.

If its in the same town fair enough, girls are gonna try other places when it goes quiet for them, nature of this industry, nothing more but "controlling" and if anyone tried to dictate to me where I could work, I wouldnt be working for them anymore.

Indeed,

We have a couple of ladies currently working for us who also work at Ladybirds in Leicester and we actively try to help promote these ladies on days when they are effectively working for/at "the competition".

As you well know, whilst at Soft Touch, Lara was also working at The Pump and also at Hollywood's in Leicester and apart from a little friendly ribbing and general curiosity we would never have dreamed of giving her any form of ultimatum or make her feel in anyway uncomfortable for trying to earn extra money by taking days in other places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No you didnt see at all. No idea where you get this from, i didnt post any such thing. In my view brothels should be legalised as i have posted on here many times. Sadly i dont have the power to make that happen. I have consistently called for much much tougher sentences on here for traffickers and even those women who agree to be trafficked on a Bond i find repulsive as a thread i posted up some time ago now showed.

All WGs should have total freedom to choose where they work, its in fact to my mind no business of another Establishments where she works when not for them. As to making things better on this matter thats down to the Establishments who try to restrict a WGs free choice to change their ways in my view.

I got it from the fact that it appeared that you were taking a total disregard for what I was trying to portray and just quote one small element in which I was trying to emphasise on the CONTROL aspect.

This looked to me like you were replying with a smarmy, smart-arsed comment about the legality of I think every parlour owner is fully aware of and ignoring the fact that the control issue is something that I COMPLETELY disagree with.

If that was not your intention then I apologise, but it certainly initially appeared that way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no. there are no employee rights as brothels are technically illegal. because the WG has zero rights as an employee, why should the massage parlour get to have any rights as an employer? as in why do they have the right to say where girls work? girls can gets sacked and fined for no reason...it happens all the time, and happened to me. it angers me that massage parlours think they have any rights over girls.

Strictly speaking, brothels aren't illegal. It is though an offence "for a person to keep, or to manage, or act or assist in the management of, a brothel". There is a fine distinction.

It's not illegal for a prostitute to work in a brothel provided that she doesn't control other prostitutes or assist in its management.

Brothel owners will tell the girls that they're self-employed and responsible for paying their own tax, and no doubt the girls are quite happy with that. However, once you start looking at the various tests used by HMRC and/or Employment Tribunals it's not that difficult to come to the conclusion that there's a fair probability that HMRC and/or an Employment Tribunal could easily determine that the girls have employee status. It's just that as far as I know they haven't yet done so in a reported case.

Illegality /immorality rarely affects employment contracts. The court or tribunal will be reluctant to allow an employer to avoid his/her statutory obligations to an employee just because that employee is working illegally (eg. because of age or visa deficiencies).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.....but don't understand how as a self employed person they think they can dictate or girls are letting them?

Of course they can. It's their parlour The girls work there according to their rules or they work elsewhere. Nobody's forcing the girls to work there ( I very much hope). The girls do have a choice - and that's the reality of the situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course they can. It's their parlour The girls work there according to their rules or they work elsewhere. Nobody's forcing the girls to work there ( I very much hope). The girls do have a choice - and that's the reality of the situation.

Ok, What if say those rules were one sided

Lets say the Establishment A states that their girls cannot work in another establishment

However, a very popular lady works at Establishment B

Establishment A really wants this member of staff so makes an exception and allows her to continue working at Establishment B in order to be able to poach her.

Favouritism ? Hypocrisy ? Control for their own benefit ?

Does reality make it right ?

As The Pump stated, a lady left their place in tears. Chances are the lady was not able to earn enough at the one place and was only trying to better herself

Are these ladies real people?

Or just pieces of meat, commodities ?

Or is it just whoever can come up with the best irrelevant legal arguement in an illegal industry ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are these ladies real people?

Or just pieces of meat, commodities ?

Or is it just whoever can come up with the best irrelevant legal arguement in an illegal industry ?

Virtually all employees will have a contract of employment. That may well have provisions that prevent them from working for their employer's competitors. They may also have a provision that requires them to obtain their employer's consent before they get a second job. That's the way it works in other industries, occupations and professions.

Commodities ? Yes, that about sums it up. What happened to the old Personnel Departments? Now it's "Human Resources" - and has been for some time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no. there are no employee rights as brothels are technically illegal. because the WG has zero rights as an employee, why should the massage parlour get to have any rights as an employer? as in why do they have the right to say where girls work? girls can gets sacked and fined for no reason...it happens all the time, and happened to me. it angers me that massage parlours think they have any rights over girls.

Hang on a mo', Ma'am!

Some activity either is or it isn't illegal: there is no "technical" about it. Brothels, per se, aren't "illegal" - it is criminal to manage a brothel, to let premises for use as a brothel, and so forth, but, heavens no, neither our "Massage Parlour" nor, indeed, our sauna is a brothel - whatever leads you to even imagine that they are? The law of defamation is there to protect the reputation of a Massage Parlour proprietor from aspersions such as you cast.

Having got that over, we then come on to the organisation of a "Massage Parlour" - if the Masseuses were employees, then the whole fee paid by the punter sorry, athletic gentleman, would be subject to VAT, the proprietor would need to do PAYE and so on and so forth. The lady masseuses, of whose chastity there should be no doubt, are all self employed. In my favourite parlour the ladies pay a flat fee per shift worked, plus a small proportion of the massage fee paid to them by each gentleman, who, himself pays the parlour only a massage bench fee, depending on how long his aching muscles need to be massaged. This way the room fees do not push the parlour proprietor over the threshold into VAT registration, and the proprietor and each lady masseuse simply completes his or her self assessment return.

Now as to "restraint of trade", given that somes masseuses are more skilled than others, it stands to reason that gentlemen whose athletic activities have left them with aching muscles will wish to chose the most skilled lady to ease the pain, and the parlour proprietor will pride himself on offering the best in the district. Self evidently he will not wish "his" masseuses to work for his rivals, possibly taking "his" customers with them, and accordingly, given that we still live in a relatively free country he is perfectly entitled to tell "his" ladies that they should work in his parlour, and not in some seedy dive down the road. If they wish to work elsewhere, then, of course, he will probably wish them well, but indicate that he won't have room on his rota to allow them to buy shifts from him in future?

Simples?

This, perhaps, explains why some ladies use different names in different massage parlours?

==

I am informed and verily believe that a VAT tribunal allowed the appeal of the proprietor of my favourite Edinburgh parlour, on the basis that crimpers in ladies' hair salons frequently "rent" a chair for a day, paying a flat rate daily fee, plus a cut of each punter's coiffure fees, and are regarded for VAT and Income Tax purposes as self-employed and there is no legal difference between that and the situation in the Edinburgh Sauna

Edited by Irgendeiner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, What if say those rules were one sided

Lets say the Establishment A states that their girls cannot work in another establishment

However, a very popular lady works at Establishment B

Establishment A really wants this member of staff so makes an exception and allows her to continue working at Establishment B in order to be able to poach her.

Favouritism ? Hypocrisy ? Control for their own benefit ?

Virtually all employees will have a contract of employment. That may well have provisions that prevent them from working for their employer's competitors. They may also have a provision that requires them to obtain their employer's consent before they get a second job. That's the way it works in other industries, occupations and professions.

Commodities ? Yes, that about sums it up. What happened to the old Personnel Departments? Now it's "Human Resources" - and has been for some time.

What about your thoughts on the first part of my post ?

You say about a contract of employment which we all know doesnt happen in this industry as the ladies are self employed / casual labour or whatever you think is the best description

But if you were to take the scenario of the contract in the real world, do you think the contract would have any substance if the clause. "You cannot work somewhere else, unless you are an employee that will bring us lots of customers so in that case forget the above" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am informed and verily believe that a VAT tribunal allowed the appeal of the proprietor of my favourite Edinburgh parlour, on the basis that crimpers in ladies' hair salons frequently "rent" a chair for a day, paying a flat rate daily fee, plus a cut of each punter's coiffure fees, and are regarded for VAT and Income Tax purposes as self-employed and there is no legal difference between that and the situation in the Edinburgh Sauna

I remember this one about hairdressers and "rent a chair".

http://www.shout99.com/contractors/showarticle.pl?id=18216

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now