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Renting Property To Use For Prostitution Or Brothel

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hi I was thinking about this the other day as in how this works. If you rent property say a house or apartment and then intend to use it for prostitution do you tell the landlord? or will the landlord need to know? what if you turn the property into a brothel? how would the landlord react and how do people/ massage parlours deal with this?

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not a clue, but i would imagine it's risky. as in you can get into trouble with the police. i have no idea how massage parlours get around this...you need to ask someone who is more clued up on the law....but one thing i noticed while working in parlours is that the main 'owner' was always someone you never saw. in one of the places i worked the owner actually lived in america and did everything remotely so that he had no direct ties.

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This is the law in the UK as far as I understand it - and please anyone who may know better, feel free to enlighten me.

Prostitution is 100% legal in the UK - as long as the following:

The girl is not working on the street

The girl is not going out/up to clients and soliciting them

The girl only advertises on forums such as websites

There is never more than 1 girl working at a time in an establishment

The way parlours/brothels get around this - is they say they charge the client/customer for their time spent with girl - and anything else that may happen and any money exchanged is purely between the client and the girl. It is a technicality, bc it is illegal to run brothels in the UK - but it is how they get away with it.

Now, in terms of renting a private room or flat to receive your clients. I think it is entirely up to you if you would want to tell your landlord about it. I think most leases might say something to the effect of "no business may be conducted on these premises" etc, so I would just be careful about what my lease said.

In the past, when I have rented, I have told the landlord I was a masseuse - this is technically not a lie, and it helped as they weren't curious as to why I had so many people coming and going from my place. Also, anytime the landlord had to come in, I wouldn't have to explain why I had a massage room set up.

I plan on renting a flat hopefully some time this year as well to work from and this is probably what I will do again.

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Running a parlour/brothel is illegal no matter what, you will get arrested for doing so. Landlords can be convicted for allowing their premises to be used for prostitution. Indies aren't breaking the law by working out of their rented flat but their landlords can evict them for breaking the tenancy agreement.

the main reason parlours and indies move around sometimes is because they have been found out and someone has complained

refer to the sexual offecnes act 2003 sections 51A to 56 its all in there.

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My advice is NEVER tell your landlord! Most people will not be happy renting to a working girl! Just hope they aren't the sort that just pop by!

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My advice is NEVER tell your landlord! Most people will not be happy renting to a working girl! Just hope they aren't the sort that just pop by!

Exactly....

I know of a lady who has had to move on a couple of times now.

She may well tell you the story herself....

Noisy bugger that she was, she alerted her neighbours to her activities :D

You do get the types of landlords who like a WG in their property.......I wonder why??

Lucy :)

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This is the law in the UK as far as I understand it - and please anyone who may know better, feel free to enlighten me. Prostitution is 100% legal in the UK - as long as the following: The girl is not working on the street The girl is not going out/up to clients and soliciting them The girl only advertises on forums such as websites There is never more than 1 girl working at a time in an establishment The way parlours/brothels get around this - is they say they charge the client/customer for their time spent with girl - and anything else that may happen and any money exchanged is purely between the client and the girl. It is a technicality, bc it is illegal to run brothels in the UK - but it is how they get away with it. Now, in terms of renting a private room or flat to receive your clients. I think it is entirely up to you if you would want to tell your landlord about it. I think most leases might say something to the effect of "no business may be conducted on these premises" etc, so I would just be careful about what my lease said. In the past, when I have rented, I have told the landlord I was a masseuse - this is technically not a lie, and it helped as they weren't curious as to why I had so many people coming and going from my place. Also, anytime the landlord had to come in, I wouldn't have to explain why I had a massage room set up. I plan on renting a flat hopefully some time this year as well to work from and this is probably what I will do again.

With brothels any kind of wording used is absolutely no use legally, it wont help a jot if the police decide to raid and have done their research. In reality brothels are allowed to operate at the discretion of the police in any given area, so thats how they get away with operating. In no tolerance areas like Stevenage at least used to be they simply closed brothels down, not that far away in MK brothels are tolerated.

The downside to this is a brothel owner is at the mercy of the police who could raid at any time or a new broom might take over who decides to uphold the law. POCA is now in the mix so the actual police force doing the raid can now financially benefit.

I wouldnt advise telling landlords myself, dependent on their views you could get chucked out, if with a council it could be seen as anti-social behaviour. The only sure way is to work alone and not let anyone else work as a WG in a freehold property you own outright as those with leases or on mortgages could also be breaking the rules that they would of signed agreeing to.

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I've been asked a couple of times by Chinese WGs i got to know if I'd sign their tenancy agreement for them on a new flat. Anybody else done this to help a girl out? Many letting agents require proof of employment which is understandably tricky for these girls.

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Legally speaking a brothel is more than 2 persons working in an establishment for the pursuance of monetarily rewarded sexual gratification specifically for said purpose

As I understand the law (I'm a commercial lawyer so not my gig) in this field if a quiet house is kept and the neighbours are unaware (tort of nuisance) you'll be ok with the cops - this presupposes there is no pimp,bonded labour &tc . But it really is critical that WGs advertise their time and anything thereafter is between &tc.

Whilst your concerns are understandable, Mr Smiths, they are'nt strictly relevant as the ladies are'nt running a business and are, therefore, unlikely to be in breach of the terms of their lease - residential, commercial or otherwise - assuming they are merely providing company

But who knows

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Legally speaking a brothel is more than 2 persons working in an establishment for the pursuance of monetarily rewarded sexual gratification specifically for said purpose

As I understand the law (I'm a commercial lawyer so not my gig) in this field if a quiet house is kept and the neighbours are unaware (tort of nuisance) you'll be ok with the cops - this presupposes there is no pimp,bonded labour &tc . But it really is critical that WGs advertise their time and anything thereafter is between &tc.

Whilst your concerns are understandable, Mr Smiths, they are'nt strictly relevant as the ladies are'nt running a business and are, therefore, unlikely to be in breach of the terms of their lease - residential, commercial or otherwise - assuming they are merely providing company

But who knows

It's more than one person, not more than two. And anybody taking money from paying customers is running a business whether it's cutting hair, teaching a musical instrument or shagging. It's more than likely that nobody would notice or care provided there wasn't a nuisance being caused, but it's still a brothel. If it walks like a duck, and so on...

I don't follow the last bit either - are you saying that by publicly denying doing something that you are patently doing (ie lying), you somehow absolve yourself of all criminal guilt? And do you actually, seriously believe that the rozzers (assuming said brothel was in a part of the world where they took an interest) would fall for such rubbish?

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Legally speaking a brothel is more than 2 persons working in an establishment for the pursuance of monetarily rewarded sexual gratification specifically for said purpose As I understand the law (I'm a commercial lawyer so not my gig) in this field if a quiet house is kept and the neighbours are unaware (tort of nuisance) you'll be ok with the cops - this presupposes there is no pimp,bonded labour &tc . But it really is critical that WGs advertise their time and anything thereafter is between &tc. Whilst your concerns are understandable, Mr Smiths, they are'nt strictly relevant as the ladies are'nt running a business and are, therefore, unlikely to be in breach of the terms of their lease - residential, commercial or otherwise - assuming they are merely providing company But who knows
They are WGs and advertising so in many cases so very easy to establish they are if a landlord is that bothered, many dont seem bothered though from what i have been told and read on here. The providing just company bollocks doesnt stand up when there is advertising that says sex is on offer. I disagree the ladies arent running a business, they are and tax is payable on it. I was saying what could happen not that it would. As Amy says its more than one lone WG not more than two in fact. Edited by smiths

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It's more than one person, not more than two. And anybody taking money from paying customers is running a business whether it's cutting hair, teaching a musical instrument or shagging. It's more than likely that nobody would notice or care provided there wasn't a nuisance being caused, but it's still a brothel. If it walks like a duck, and so on... I don't follow the last bit either - are you saying that by publicly denying doing something that you are patently doing (ie lying), you somehow absolve yourself of all criminal guilt? And do you actually, seriously believe that the rozzers (assuming said brothel was in a part of the world where they took an interest) would fall for such rubbish?

Well put Amy. Its certainly a business, and the police might not all be the sharpest tools in the box by they are not stupid enough to just believe so called disclaimers, its easy if they so wish to find a link that shows its a brothel by its advertising then send a guy in as a pretend punter who gets offered sex and they then have what they need to raid. When they read a disclaimer saying its for companionship only or similar no doubt they have seen them a lot over the years and its not difficult to find out that paid sex is whats really on offer. :)

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Amy is, of course, correct and i apologise for a poorly written post: when I said 2 persons, I should've said a couple. A couple having paid uncoerced sex in a single establishment is not a brothel but bring her mate along and it is. Incidentally, the jury is, quite literally, out on the time that needs to elapse between these functions before they constitute more than one couple ie when the next guy comes along.

Prostitution is still a legal minefield notwithstanding changes in the law. No one in authority really wants to face up to the fact, or politicians admit, it goes on regardless of legislation and so we get silly tinkering about numbers of people, clients being offenders but providers not etc

However, I maintain the disclaimer is important as it pertains to advertising ergo soliciting

Anyway, its not my speciality and you undoubtedly know more than me plus its a difficult subject to raise in the office without understandablly raised eyebrows!!!!

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I did wonder :) apart from anything else, if you could get away with doing things just by saying 'I didn't do that', there'd be bloody anarchy.

Advertising of prostitution is not an issue either as it's perfectly legal to do so in the UK at least (although not in Ireland, even though indoor prostitution remains legal). The offence of soliciting pertains to nuisance and public order, and as such relates only to public places (I think the wording includes streets, thoroughfares and doorways, as well as public telephones but somebody who knows more about it than me will be better equipped with the minutiae). The internet, the telephone and the local rag are categorically not public places.

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Correct, Amy. Including "public rights of way.." But retain the disclaimer

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Well I don't need a disclaimer as I'm independent - if I want to put on a T-shirt that says 'I will have sex with you for £100', take a photo of it and then put that photo on my website that's all fine and dandy provided I don't then go outside and walk down the street in it.

But even if I wasn't, if the law decides to do you a disclaimer is utterly and completely superfluous, just as standing in the doorway of a brothel and stating 'this is not a brothel' doesn't magically make it not one. The prosecutors are interested in whether an offence is actually being committed, not whether somebody's admitting to it or not.

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its often about other residents and if they are happy. as soon as they object the wg has a struggle. however i know one mature wg who has operated for years in a small block of flats. its all down to experience and style and luck in choosing a good site.

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I've been asked a couple of times by Chinese WGs i got to know if I'd sign their tenancy agreement for them on a new flat. Anybody else done this to help a girl out? Many letting agents require proof of employment which is understandably tricky for these girls.

That would be like shooing yourself in the head - unless you were getting free shags from the girls - even then - I hate tenancy agreements I have signed in the past for myself - let alone for a third party if the girls vanish which is highly likely sooner or later without notice - you will be stuck with having to pay out the agreement.

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You do get the types of landlords who like a WG in their property.......I wonder why??

Hoping for rent payment in kind - at a discounted rate ?

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I've been asked a couple of times by Chinese WGs i got to know if I'd sign their tenancy agreement for them on a new flat. Anybody else done this to help a girl out? Many letting agents require proof of employment which is understandably tricky for these girls.

Sounds like a real bad idea to me. You'd then be guilty of sub-letting, running a business (neither illegal, but almost definitely excluded by the tenancy agreement) AND running a brothel. Not to mention anyone in your private life ever finding out.

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Well I don't need a disclaimer as I'm independent - if I want to put on a T-shirt that says 'I will have sex with you for £100', take a photo of it and then put that photo on my website that's all fine and dandy provided I don't then go outside and walk down the street in it.

it took me ages to choose that T-shirt for you Amy. I'm glad you've decided to put it to good use :).

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Running a parlour/brothel is illegal no matter what, you will get arrested for doing so.

You can be arrested, but then again I know of people who have been keeping or managing brothels for decades and have never been arrested.

refer to the sexual offecnes act 2003 sections 51A to 56 its all in there.

I think that you mean sections 33 to 36 (inclusive) Sexual Offences Act 1956.

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That would be like shooing yourself in the head - unless you were getting free shags from the girls - even then - I hate tenancy agreements I have signed in the past for myself - let alone for a third party if the girls vanish which is highly likely sooner or later without notice - you will be stuck with having to pay out the agreement.

Plus I have a feeling that if more than one girl started working from the flat, then he'd be commiting an offence by knowingly subletting for this purpose.

Regards some of the comments above, the 'disclaimer' is worthless. Yes you do pay an independent by time, it's a way of her 'selling' sex in a measureable amount - otherwise you'd have MR A who likes to spend a whole evening, and Mr B who is happy with a quickie both paying the same, which wouldn't really be fair.

Paying for, and being paid for sex in the UK is not illegal. I decided to stop having the 'time and companionship' spiel on my website a while back, when I realised it actually caused more confusion to green newbies than anything, not to mention not being relevant anyway!

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If one Googles "CPS Prostitution" a nice clickable link appears to a 7,000 word summary of what the Prosecution thinks the law is. It is really quite helpful. I often advise people to go there, but no one seems to bother.

A couple of points:

It is still a brothel if two ladies use it alternate days, without ever meeting. The definition of a brothel is common law, not statute. We need Madam to be convicted and appeal to a robust Court of Appeal panel, which does a Young v Bristol Aeroplane and updates the definition!

A brothel (unlike prostitution) does NOT require payment. A swingers' club or (as one father of an undergraduate recently commented here) a University Hall of Residence is capable of being alleged to be a brothel, so that the manager, landlord and tenant can be done for their respective parts.

Getting out of the criminal law, into Landlord and Tenant - anybody who is either a landlord or a tenant would be very well advised to read their tenancy agreement, or lease. The vast majority, as well as banning pets, also prohibit immorality, which is likely to be what the landlord says it is - maybe, this year, Banking ?? - if you have access to a legal database try Rugby School v Tannahill. Poor Mrs Tannahill's 99-year lease was forfeited, just because she'd run a brothel.

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My London flat is in a building with one flat per floor. Several of them are rented with a regular turnover of tenants, and I don't think the rest of us have much idea of who is there. Most of the flat-owners are out during the day and wouldn't have a clue if someone was receiving regular male visitors - and it would have to be HOD-level of activities for that even to seem noticeable/odd.

As for landlord's reactions, in the other country I live in I rent out one or two flats. The last time I did it I had several inquiries from girls who stated quite openly that they required a place for these purposes. I had to tell her that, while I had no personal objection, I was living in the same building, and there were one or two irritating busybodies on the premises who would certainly suss out what was happening. (Mrs. Bloom had no moral objections, by the way.)

Edited by Mr. Bloom

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