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Vin DaLoo

French Minister For Women Seeks Abolition Of Prostitution In Europe

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Story in yesterday's Guardian

France's minister for women is to organise a consultation on ways to abolish prostitution in France and Europe, she has told the Guardian.

Najat Vallaud-Belkacem, the high profile women's rights minister and government spokeswoman, said in an interview that she would be organising a conference of experts on how to contain the sex-trade and human-trafficking and was seeking to meet the home secretary Theresa May for input from the UK.

"Since the 19th century and the role of [the Victorian feminist] Josephine Butler, Britain and France have been the core countries in the international mobilisation against prostitution. I really hope that these common roots are still alive," she said.

The Minister in question is undeniably cute.

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The Minister in question is undeniably cute.

I agree but her proposal is interesting but bad news.

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Is it even a realistic objective to have a "society without prostitution" as the French government have apparently resolved?

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Punting in France is crap anyway so whatever they decide to do there is no great loss.

Can't imagine dear Theresa jumping on that sort of bandwagon though. The legal status of punting in England and Wales was settled for the forseeable future by the 2009 act. I don't think the coalition have any interest in opening it up again.

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My worry would be that it becomes enshrined in a European Law that trumps UK Laws.

So guys you may need to straighten your cucumbers, round off your tomatoes and pay in Euros :D

Edited by Corus Boy

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She's going to have some job abolishing prostitution in Europe, what with brothels being legal in countries such as Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Hungary and Greece, whilst other countries such as Spain, Czech Republic and Belgium being largely tolerant of brothels. Still recovering from recession and plagued by the eurozone crisis I doubt any of these countries will want to spend money implementing and enforcing any anti-prostitution legislation ideas proposed by France.

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Most civvie women instinctively dislike the idea of men having the option to pay for it.

So as more women get to positions of power it is inevitable that there will be the odd push to criminalise the (male) punter.

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Most civvie women instinctively dislike the idea of men having the option to pay for it.

So as more women get to positions of power it is inevitable that there will be the odd push to criminalise the (male) punter.

You make a very good point here. I have been thinking the same. I believe over time this will lead to more calls and action to abolish prostitution.

What these people will find though is its impossible to abolish it, prostitution and punting will ALWAYS find a way until we get to the inevitable as i see it 24/7 monitoring of society sold on the "if you arent doing anything wrong whats the problem with being monitored" argument, although that way could well become more riskier than it is now for WGs and punters. :)

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If (and that's a big if) she gets her way then hopefully more pro-sex groups will be created and I think now more then ever not only the UK needs a sex positive political party but Europe as a whole. Now France has done the right thing being a secular country (I like any country that says 'fuck you' to religion also known as the biggest industry in the world) but it left the door open for women who misandrists who hijacked feminism and turned it into a anti-male agenda, seems like sex positive people are fucked either way whether they are in a country controlled by religion or a secular country that will be controlled by misandrists (like Sweden for example). Najat Vallaud-Belkacem is not a feminist cause if she was she would respect the choice that people make (female or male) who wants to go into prostitution but she is a misandrist through and through cause she wants to tell women what to do with their lives and not have a choice at all.

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"Since the 19th century and the role of [the Victorian feminist] Josephine Butler, Britain and France have been the core countries in the international mobilisation against prostitution. I really hope that these common roots are still alive," she said."

If she believes that she is peculiarly ignorant . France had licensed brothels until 1946; brothels have been illegal in Britain since before the C19. Whether and the law has been/is enforced is quite another matter, needless to say.

A French brothel, Le Chabanais, won a prize for its decor at the 1901 Grand Exhibition. Later, a visit was a standard treat for visiting dignitaries, courtesy of the French state. Edward VII was a regular. It was an institution. I really don't think the UK had anything like it. Ever, let alone in the C19.

That said, I really don't think anyone here should worry too much about this lass's nonsense. The issue evidently isn't high on Teresa May's agenda and I'd give the new French government a year before Frau Merkel teaches them how many beans make five.

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I thought France had recently brought in 'Criminalise The Punter' legislation with cross party support. What is the exact story on this? Also does the decline of the once famous pay for play situation in France, go back to some working ladies being viewed as collaborators during WW2?

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does the decline of the once famous pay for play situation in France, go back to some working ladies being viewed as collaborators during WW2?

I wouldn't have thought so; I briefly lived in France in the '80s, and even in a town/city about the size of Reading there was a lively Red Light District. I was once in a car with my boss passing right by this zone and he stopped to chat to a friend he had seen, and joked if he was there to see a "pute", in the kind of way that indicated that both of tjem knew that was a distinct possibility!

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I thought France had recently brought in 'Criminalise The Punter' legislation with cross party support. What is the exact story on this? Also does the decline of the once famous pay for play situation in France, go back to some working ladies being viewed as collaborators during WW2?

I think you mean this

http://www.france24.com/en/20111207-banning-prostitution-france-will-endanger-lives-dominique-strauss-kahn

It was still very far off from being legislation before the government were booted out of office, and it may never have got that far. Now that France has a more rad fem infiltrated government they'll probably try to introduce something similar and speed up the process of trying to pass it.

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Najat Vallaud-Belkacem went to speak about her proposals at a meeting and me opposition from a group of sex workers who stopped her speaking for a long time.

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Liked this bit:

"Under Napoleon, prostitutes were registered and inspected for their health, and brothels were legal. The filles de joie would wander freely with their clients under the colonnades of the Palais Royal."

I think almost all punting time-travellers would choose Paris 1840 over Paris 2012 - not everything has changed for the better with democracy and modern technology.

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French bill would criminalise paying for sex

prostitution_1_0.jpg
Proposed legislation may outlaw paying for sex in France while giving prostitutes who are victims of sexual violence easier access to legal support. The preliminary text does not enjoy universal support.

 

Paying for sex in France may soon become a criminal offence, according to a forthcoming bill whose details were made public this week.

The proposed legislation would also overturn a 2003 law that penalises prostitutes overtly offering their services, rules that were intended to reduce the presence of sex workers in the streets but instead led prostitutes to “dress down” while plying their trade.

“We are going to turn the law on its head,” said Socialist Member of Parliament Maud Olivier, who authored a report that will be the basis of the bill. “Prostitutes are victims and should not be treated like criminals.”

“The law is intended to reduce violence towards prostitutes and to get it into the general mindset that paying for sexual services is not acceptable. We need to destroy the idea that prostitution is a happy trade,” she said, adding that of the estimated 40,000 sex workers in France, 80 percent are women and 90 percent are immigrants.

The bill, which is due to be debated by the National Assembly (lower house) and the Senate starting in November, sets out progressive fines of up to 1,500 euros for a first offence, to 7,500 euros and six months' imprisonment for repeat offenders.

It would also give prostitutes who are victims of sexual violence easier access to legal residency in France, while opening the doors to suing pimps who force them to sell their bodies.

The move was welcomed by campaign group “Mouvement du Nid”, an association that helps prostitutes find justice in the case of sexual violence and exploitation by criminal networks.

“Women who sell their bodies for sex are not harming anyone and they shouldn’t be seen as criminals,” said the Mouvement du Nid’s General Secretary Gregoire Thery.

“All the harm to the individuals involved and to society in general is committed by clients who are sexually violent towards prostitutes.

“This law will protect women. For the first time in French history it gives them the opportunity to tell clients who are violent or make unwelcome demands that they can be arrested and punished for committing an illegal act.”

'It will be a disaster'

The proposal does not have universal support, however, and organisations representing sex workers claim it would push prostitution further underground and subject women to increased risks.

AIDS advocacy group Act Up and French NGO Medecins du Monde (Doctors of the World) were among around 100 organisations who signed a petition against the proposition, arguing that it would "make prostitutes more vulnerable".

“Manon”, a Paris prostitute who is spokeswoman for the STRASS sex workers union, told FRANCE 24 the bill would “do exactly the opposite of what it is designed to achieve”.

“Prostitutes will have to work more clandestinely to protect their clients, putting them at greater danger of violence and further away from sexual health services,” she said.

“It also means a drop in the number of clients, making it harder for us to make a living,” she added. “This in turn means that punters will be in a stronger position to pressure prostitutes into doing things they don’t want to do, including having unprotected sex.

“They’re doing this in the name of women’s rights and it will be a disaster. It’s just a cheap political move that will do nothing but harm.”

 

http://www.france24.com/en/20130918-france-prostitution-law-sex-trade-criminalise-paying

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With those levels of fines the French Government is set to become the biggest pimp there!

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With those levels of fines the French Government is set to become the biggest pimp there!

 

 

I predict that blackmail will become a growth industry

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Punting in France is crap anyway so whatever they decide to do there is no great loss.

Can't imagine dear Theresa jumping on that sort of bandwagon though. The legal status of punting in England and Wales was settled for the forseeable future by the 2009 act. I don't think the coalition have any interest in opening it up again.

 

Nicely put Rubens, but the issue is that there are wide splits in both coalition parties.  The Tories have a powerful libertarian wing that says "the market should be free to do as it pleases" and vile and equally powerful wing that says "all enjoyment should be banned!".  The Lib Dems have three wings on this.  The logical/pragmatic wing which is decriminalise the running of brothels but have checks and balances to ensure the girls are well treated, voluntarily in the industry and supported if/when they want to leave. The feminist wing were all sex is violence against women unless you have signed a consent forms witnessed by an independent person in triplicate (thankfully quite small).  Then there is another wing which is "not bothered either way and there are really more important things to do such fixing the economy and the party surviving the next general election".

 

Labour/socialists are the real danger as there is an obsession within that European grouping with banning things that are enjoyable but inconvenient in terms of "morality".

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This is all what socialist governments good at doing, Controling Bastards !  Who wants to punt in France when Germany is the best.

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With those levels of fines the French Government is set to become the biggest pimp there!

Oh i dont know, the english police pimp policy of POCA takes EVERYTHING.

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