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Ip Adresses -- Simple Question ( Hopefully) For Techies

18 posts in this topic

I am not in the least bit tech savvy, so I would appreciate any replies to be in the simplest possible language -- thanks.

Q1.

I have a personal laptop. When I use the wireless facility on the laptop in my work place, the IP address shows the same number as is shown when I do an IP look-up search on my networked desktop computer. Both my laptop and the network server use the same wireless facility. Why is this the case, if each 'device' is supposed to have its own individulal IP address ?

Q2.

When I use my laptop at home, I use the home wireless facility. My laptop shows a completely different IP address from when I use it in the office. Can a 3rd party identify however that the same laptop device is being used, whether I be at home or in the office ?

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Hello

Trying to explain the in the simplest of language but please feel free to ask if you dont understand.

The fundamentals of networks require every device in a subnet (ie. a collection of computers virtually bundled together) to have an individual IP

Now with regards to your questions

Q1 when you say "the IP address shows the same number as is shown when I do an IP look-up search on my networked desktop computer." do you mean you go to a web browser like whatsmyip.com or myip.dk ? and the displayed IP is same ?? in which case you may get the same IP which is probably your Office's gateway IP

The best way to find your ip is to click start in the search bar type cmd then in the command window type ipconfig

This command will show you a list of network interface on your PC & Laptop and the ips associated to each connected interface

Q2.

a third party outside your home or office domain would not be able to identify the laptop, they will only be able to identify yout gateway address in your case your home and office router IP.. But s person in your office or home can identify the associated device by doing a lookup. or by doing a packet inspection.

Hope this answers your question

J

I am not in the least bit tech savvy, so I would appreciate any replies to be in the simplest possible language -- thanks.

Q1.

I have a personal laptop. When I use the wireless facility on the laptop in my work place, the IP address shows the same number as is shown when I do an IP look-up search on my networked desktop computer. Both my laptop and the network server use the same wireless facility. Why is this the case, if each 'device' is supposed to have its own individulal IP address ?

Q2.

When I use my laptop at home, I use the home wireless facility. My laptop shows a completely different IP address from when I use it in the office. Can a 3rd party identify however that the same laptop device is being used, whether I be at home or in the office ?

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Hello

Trying to explain the in the simplest of language but please feel free to ask if you dont understand.

The fundamentals of networks require every device in a subnet (ie. a collection of computers virtually bundled together) to have an individual IP

Now with regards to your questions

Q1 when you say "the IP address shows the same number as is shown when I do an IP look-up search on my networked desktop computer." do you mean you go to a web browser like whatsmyip.com or myip.dk ? and the displayed IP is same ?? in which case you may get the same IP which is probably your Office's gateway IP

The best way to find your ip is to click start in the search bar type cmd then in the command window type ipconfig

This command will show you a list of network interface on your PC & Laptop and the ips associated to each connected interface

Q2.

a third party outside your home or office domain would not be able to identify the laptop, they will only be able to identify yout gateway address in your case your home and office router IP.. But s person in your office or home can identify the associated device by doing a lookup. or by doing a packet inspection.

Hope this answers your question

J

Yes I think so and thank you very much. Am I therefore correct to say the following;

1. A third party outside the office or home cannot identify the IP of a particular device ( i.e. laptop, desktop computer,mobile phone.) That person can only identify the gateway IP address which is the one assigned by the router (static one ) in the office or ( changeable one , every time the router is turned off/on ) at home ?

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In simple terms, each router has its own list of designated IP destinations to route requests....

Its like a very large roundabout with several turn offs linking to other roundabouts with turn offs and other roundabouts , etc. etc.....

Try running the command prompt and type "ping -r 9 www.bbc.co.uk" (-r means show the route upto 9 hops)

But just like you can track the route of IPs as above......

so can they.....

but ips can changes as different servers are changed, restarted and added and updated...so its unlikely that the route an IP address will stay the same for long and point directly to a specific device. Although it CAN happen or at least point in the genreal direction if you have dedicated proxies and servers..

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True any packet inspection midway will only show your Gateway (Router) IP.

Yes I think so and thank you very much. Am I therefore correct to say the following;

1. A third party outside the office or home cannot identify the IP of a particular device

the gateway ip is assigned if dynamic or alloted if static by the ISP. It doesnt have to change as a rule i know many ISPs who do not force a change/flush of dynamic IPs which remain the same for months. I know for sure that O2 (previously BE) dont force an ip refresh but BT do every day

That person can only identify the gateway IP address which is the one assigned by the router (static one ) in the office or ( changeable one , every time the router is turned off/on ) at home ?

+1 (dont think i could explain any simpler)

In simple terms, each router has its own list of designated IP destinations to route requests....

Its like a very large roundabout with several turn offs linking to other roundabouts with turn offs and other roundabouts , etc. etc.....

ping -r may not work but you can definately see the route to a server by typing "tracert ww.bbc.co.uk" in command prompt.

Try running the command prompt and type "ping -r 9 www.bbc.co.uk" (-r means show the route upto 9 hops)

in my experience an ip for a website has always remained same unless hosted on a domestic internet connection on a home pc/server with dynamic dns or unless the hosting provider has changed. Some large sites like youtube, google, microsoft load balance so you could end up on a different ip depending on your ISP or geo location.

but ips can changes as different servers are changed, restarted and added and updated...so its unlikely that the route an IP address will stay the same for long and point directly to a specific device. Although it CAN happen or at least point in the genreal direction if you have dedicated proxies and servers..

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OK so they cant see the computer IP address when on home network

but:-

can they see a mobile phone when using mobile broadband?

and

can they see the mac address of stuff on my network?

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The server will not be able to see the end ip neither will anyone who intercepts the packet.

a mobile phone over 3g is exactly like a home wifi the mobile operator allocates you a private IP, and all traffic passes through their gateway.

the source and destination mac addresses are ripped off and replaced with a new one at every hop when packets traverse over networks through the internet

However a law enforcement agency could approach your Moblie provider or ISP to give them details of the last hop (ie your router or mobile phone IP)

OK so they cant see the computer IP address when on home network

but:-

can they see a mobile phone when using mobile broadband?

and

can they see the mac address of stuff on my network?

Edited by junkies001

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The server will not be able to see the end ip neither will anyone who intercepts the packet.

a mobile phone over 3g is exactly like a home wifi the mobile operator allocates you a private IP, and all traffic passes through their gateway.

the source and destination mac addresses are ripped off and replaced with a new one at every hop when packets traverse over networks through the internet

However a law enforcement agency could approach your Moblie provider or ISP to give them details of the last hop (ie your router or mobile phone IP)

thanks for that

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Even the trace on an IP address can we wildly inaccurate - I did a search on mine and it told me i was in Shrewsbury, wherever that is, near Wales I think?

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Even the trace on an IP address can we wildly inaccurate - I did a search on mine and it told me i was in Shrewsbury, wherever that is, near Wales I think?

Shropshire. On the A5/A449

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What you are seeing is the location of your ISP which is the only information the geolocation services have.

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What you are seeing is the location of your ISP which is the only information the geolocation services have.

So is there a way for anybody (other than The Bill) to track roughly where you are? Also, what about when you log into sites and accept a cookie, can the owner see any information - I don't mean personal, I'm thinking such as PC name, etc.

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So is there a way for anybody (other than The Bill) to track roughly where you are? Also, what about when you log into sites and accept a cookie, can the owner see any information - I don't mean personal, I'm thinking such as PC name, etc.

I always clear put cookies after each browsing session. so once a day, run ccleaner, and in firefox, clear the browsing history on exit.

I have a google account and i have web history paused in my account.

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A bit nerdy this one but here goes...

 

It is also fair to say that your IP address inside your home, or inside your office, may well be in the private address range, for example 192.168.1.3. This address is given to your pc from the Office gateway/router or your home adsl/modem when you boot up, from a given range. The upshot of this is that your ip address may well change every time you switch on your pc. On monday you might be 192.168.1.3. And on Tuesday you are maybe 192.168.1.4. The guy at the next desk maybe 192.168.1.3 that day.

 

Your IP address "outside" of your home or different again. This is typically a public address owned by your internet pervice providor (ISP) If for example you are  87.112.1.2 as an external address, this is an external address that an ISP (plusnet in this case) has put on the phone line to your home. This is different to 192.168.1.x address you probably have on your wireless LAN.

 

If you simply switch off and on your adsl router modem, your ISP may well change your external IP address, to a new one in thier public range. (Your 192.16.8.1.x address may well change too.)

 

I never worry about someone finding my IP address as it is always changeing. (Totally unlike a phone number)

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A bit nerdy this one but here goes...

 

It is also fair to say that your IP address inside your home, or inside your office, may well be in the private address range, for example 192.168.1.3. This address is given to your pc from the Office gateway/router or your home adsl/modem when you boot up, from a given range. The upshot of this is that your ip address may well change every time you switch on your pc. On monday you might be 192.168.1.3. And on Tuesday you are maybe 192.168.1.4. The guy at the next desk maybe 192.168.1.3 that day.

 

Your IP address "outside" of your home or different again. This is typically a public address owned by your internet pervice providor (ISP) If for example you are  87.112.1.2 as an external address, this is an external address that an ISP (plusnet in this case) has put on the phone line to your home. This is different to 192.168.1.x address you probably have on your wireless LAN.

If you simply switch off and on your adsl router modem, your ISP may well change your external IP address, to a new one in thier public range. (Your 192.16.8.1.x address may well change too.)

 

I never worry about someone finding my IP address as it is always changeing. (Totally unlike a phone number)

Good post, but is there a way that anybody can detect something that doesn't change (unless you manually change that too), such as your PC name? I always use cccleaner as well, but mainly just as an easy way of getting rid of the clutter.

Edited by raylondoner

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What you are seeing is the location of your ISP which is the only information the geolocation services have.

 

well ntl (now virgin) make the town quite obvious as if you do a a traceroute the router 1 or 2 up from your cable modem has reverse DNS indicating town.

 

http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Up-to-60Mb-Setup-Equipment/Analysing-Traceroutes/td-p/559117

 

shows an example 

cpc5-mort6-2-0-gw.croy.cable.virginmedia.com [94.173.220.1] 

 

so it's a customer in or near Croydon

 

Martin

Edited by misterm

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Mistem has a good point here. Most routers are configured with a name to match the location (Dispite what may have be said in the training class.)

This is not just virgin but most service providers.

 

As soon as you send anything from your pc, like booting up messages, your external IP address will show. Even it it has just changed, as metioned above. A hacker could know what city your are in and start work on your own router from the outside, targeting your new source IP address. Typically a port number (dynamic not static)  is also found to hack an invidual user and even the well know application the user is using. For example destination port number number 80 shows the user is web browseing. (666 shows you are playing doom!). Hopefully the hacker will not get past your router and into the office or home. (firewalls help here.)

 

Inside the home or office is different....

The mac address (eg decafec0ffee), which is static, is burnt into your network interface card and every PC has a different mac address. A good network administrator will know this mac address to be you, if it is a work PC. Even if you move to a different office LAN they should be able to find you, even down to what physical ethrnet floor port you pluged a wire into.

 

They can often see you by your hostname too (eg billslaptop) which is very rearly reconfiguered. Sometimes they also can cheek what sites you visit via a proxy web server.

 

Safe answer is do not visit "inapprpriate sites" using company time/hardware or software.

 

Also you may have a cookies on your laptop (becuase you want tesco to know you like your bannanas green last time you shoped online there right.)

These cookies are stored on your hard disk (for you to carry wherever you may go.) just like you website fravorite pages or bookmarks (another risk.) These can be manually cleared.

 

Sorry for the long responce.. but you did ask..lol

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Just going to try and explain this in a different way. Starting with what an IP address actually is. An IP address is the physical address of an electronic device on any given network. It is a way for devices to communicate within a network in an easy way. This means that IP addresses only have to be unique within that given network and that each interface on the same machine (I.e. wired interface and wired interface) should have unique IP addresses if connected to the same network. IP and MAC addresses differ, as all MAC addresses are unique, hypothetically no two MAC addresses in the world should be the same*.

 

The majority of domestic routers have core networking functionality turned off and a firewall (amongst other security measures) to prevent you being exposed to the outside world. You will also find that although your external IP address can be stored, the service storing your IP address takes the last hop available on a route, which is not necessarily your router.

 

For an external individual to 'Hack' you, it would take a large amount of time, and effort, unless you are using a router with a known vulnerability (and the hacker would have to know this), you have turned off your security features or placed your personal IP into a DMZ (De-militarised zone, meaning your PC is completed exposed to the outside world and devoid of all hardware security provided by your router).

 

Based on the fact that your IP address is all that is exposed to the world, and in majority of cases your MAC address (this 'should' be unique) remains hidden it means that you are very hard to find, and because domestic ISP's rotate IP addresses (no matter how infrequently) it means they have a window of time with which to work with. IP addresses can change all the time for a provider but this depends on a few things. If your ISP uses static IP's, the IP renew rate of your ISP, if they use caching and more.

 

However, ISP's can track and trace, which means that if you are looking for illegal things, they can see some content, but due the fact that this is based on packet traffic, they would need a huge amount of processing power to discover what you were looking at. In the most cases, all they can see are URL's and non-encrypted traffic. Just remember that an ISP may have hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people using their service, and each url would need to be stored, catalogued and searched. Unlikely, given the huge amount of power and resources needed.

 

To be honest you are more likely to be phished (a person pretending to be a site, to get you to put your credentials in)

 

For inside the office (depending on how good your infra team is), there could be things such as proxies, cookie replication, image caching, key word flagging, remote browser history and much more. The difference being, quite simply that when you are in the office, you are on an 'intra-network' as opposed to an 'inter-network'. The security with regards to networking happens between these two networks. So there is usually a firewall between the intranet and the internet, unless you are China.

 

Usually you have very little security within the network, the usual password access to a colleague pc/shared drive, but usually nothing more than that. Everything within your computer has to pass through the company router before it can access the outside world.

 

When you are connected, they will know:

  • Your ‘PC Name’
  • Your MAC address (unique to the connection device, so WIFI connection and wired connection will have different MAC addresses, and no two MAC addresses should be the same*)
  • Your IP address (not necessarily unique to the connection device, can change depending if you are on)

 

If they have the correct software installed, or you are redirected through a proxy before you connect to the internet they can store, detect and associate with you:

  • URL's
  • Media (Video, Image, Music...)
  • Keywords ('porn','sex','horny'...)
  • Times/Dates of access
  • Duration of access
  • Any information from non-encrypted sites (username/password combinations)

Just to highlight what 'WebGuyPatrick' said, in short, just don't access sensitive sites from work, it's not a good idea.

 

*All MAC addresses should be unique, and they are defined as unique when hardware is created, however, they can be cloned.

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