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Strawberry

Spot The Errors

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I was sent a link to this today by a directory, the link claims to clarify the laws surrounding Sex Work in the UK but it is quite misleading. I have submitted comments which are awaiting approval, not sure if they will accept them but also wondered if the legal eagles on here would confirm the innaccurate statements made here;

http://www.girl-directory.com/magazine/law-for-uk-escorts/#comment-76

As far as I'm aware the last 3 bullet points in the first section are completely inaccurate. As I understand UK law;

It's an offence to pay for sex with someone under the age of 18, but not one for a person under the age of 18 to provide services.

It's not an offence to advertise in printed media or on the internet, but it is illegal to 'card' phone boxes.

Profitting per se isn't illegal, it's control for gain which is the offence with the emphasis on 'control'.

Am I correct on these points?

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Am I correct on these points?

Yes, you are correct.

They also say:

"Working in a brothel" is illegal.

"Openly paying or employing someone to assist you, whilst offering sexual services may be deemed illegal to both you and the employee."

I gave up then. I didn't bother reading the payment for sexual services bit.There's not much on the whole webpage that's actually correct.

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so what is the gold standard site on prostitution law in the UK?

The TOP one is very good, as you say.

SW5 is worth reading as well:

http://sw5.info/law/

The relevant statutes for the detail ie. Sexual Offences Acts 1956 and 2003.

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Spot the grammar too....whilst above the waste nudity is acceptable

Would that be the waste pipe?

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As far as I'm aware the last 3 bullet points in the first section are completely inaccurate. As I understand UK law;

It's an offence to pay for sex with someone under the age of 18, but not one for a person under the age of 18 to provide services.

It's not an offence to advertise in printed media or on the internet, but it is illegal to 'card' phone boxes.

Profitting per se isn't illegal, it's control for gain which is the offence with the emphasis on 'control'.

Am I correct on these points?

Children under 18 involved in prostitution should be treated as victims of abuse, Those who use child prostitutes should be prosecuted under sections 47 - 51 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/prostitution_and_exploitation_of_prostitution/

but not one for a person under the age of 18 to provide services-I didn't get your point after all how did you think about it?

Yes, you are correct.

They also say:

"Working in a brothel" is illegal.

"Openly paying or employing someone to assist you, whilst offering sexual services may be deemed illegal to both you and the employee."

I gave up then. I didn't bother reading the payment for sexual services bit.There's not much on the whole webpage that's actually correct.

Working as a prostitute in private is not an offence, and neither is working as an outcall escort - that only applies to a single lady.

Premises only become a brothel when more than one woman uses premises for the purposes of prostitution, either simultaneously or one at a time.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/prostitution_and_exploitation_of_prostitution/

http://www.uknationalescortsassociation.co.uk/articles/laws_of_prostitution_in_the_uk_154.html

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I'm not normally picky regarding poor grammar but that site is so bad most of the sentences are actually giberish.

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but not one for a person under the age of 18 to provide services-I didn't get your point after all how did you think about it?

I understood what Strawberry was saying. It's not a criminal offence for a person under 18 to provide sexual services. The website is wrong in saying that it is.

Working as a prostitute in private is not an offence, and neither is working as an outcall escort - that only applies to a single lady.

It's not illegal to work as a prostitute - full stop. Incall, outcall or in a brothel.

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I understood what Strawberry was saying. It's not a criminal offence for a person under 18 to provide sexual services. The website is wrong in saying that it is.

It's not illegal to work as a prostitute - full stop. Incall, outcall or in a brothel.

This is the statement from the site that Strawberry was referring ''If you are not over 18 years of age you shouldn’t even be here and are committing a criminal offence offering escort services'' what do you mean by it?

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so what is the gold standard site on prostitution law in the UK?

I generally use the oldest prof one - http://oldestprof.co...dex.php/sexlaws

is there a better one?

Whether it is 100% correct (and with the English system, it is only an appeal court which can properly interpret what the law actually means, and apply it to a particular set of circumstances) or not, I think that the CPS' guidance on

Prostitution and Exploitation of Prostitution

is the best reference, simply because, right or wrong, that is their view of the law, which they are going to follow in deciding whether to prosecute you or not. It is quite easy to read, running only to about 7k words. Try googling for "CPS & Prostitution"!

PS - you asked for a gold standard site on prostitution in the UK - I don't think there is one such site covering England&Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, which together amount to the UK, nor one covering the Isle of Man, Jersey and also Guernsey, which aren't, strictly, parts of the UK, although for many purposes they are near enough UK! The CPS site covers ONLY England&Wales.

Edited by Irgendeiner

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Spot the grammar too....whilst above the waste nudity is acceptable

Would that be the waste pipe?

I understand exactly what that means - go into the bathroom, and admire yourself in the shaving mirror - everything below the overflow on the basin in front of you is out of bounds.

Can you do hand stands?

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I'm not normally picky regarding poor grammar but that site is so bad most of the sentences are actually giberish.

A comment now left on the site points out some the errors. The mods have replied that they "...were airing on the side of caution." :rolleyes:

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According to the law it clearly states it's an offence and child abuse to have sex with under 18yrs old. So my question to those who are talking on behalf of under 18 will you guys escape from law if you are charged to have sex with under 18 yrs old girl. Seems you are very interested to have sex with under 18 girls!

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According to the law it clearly states it's an offence and child abuse to have sex with under 18yrs old. So my question to those who are talking on behalf of under 18 will you guys escape from law if you are charged to have sex with under 18 yrs old girl. Seems you are very interested to have sex with under 18 girls!

The age of consent without payment is 16.

No one here is saying they'd pay for sex with a 16 or 17 year old, what we were doing was clarifying a few points not justifying behaviour. They points clarified about that it's not illegal for a 16 or 17, or in fact anyone under those ages to offer sex for payment, it is however illegal for a person to pay for sex with someone under the age of 18 - ie client is committing the offence not the SP. No one said anything about escaping from the law, quite the opposite.

Edited by Strawberry

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According to the law it clearly states it's an offence and child abuse to have sex with under 18yrs old. So my question to those who are talking on behalf of under 18 will you guys escape from law if you are charged to have sex with under 18 yrs old girl. Seems you are very interested to have sex with under 18 girls!

Rubbish!

Nobody is saying that. Read the posts again.

It's illegal to pay for the sexual services of a child ie. a person under 18. It's not illegal (ie. a criminal offence) for a person under 18 to offer sexual services for payment.

What part of that don't you understand?

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Just because I point out that it's not a criminal offence for a person under the age of 18 to offer sexual services for payment doesn't mean that I'm interested in under-age sex or a paedophile. I'm just pointing out the law. Children under 18 involved in prostitution should be treated as victims of abuse and not prosecuted as criminals.

You seem to have a difficult time in understanding the simplest of things.

In English please?

You're not going to last long on this site if you accuse other posters of being paedophiles.

I'm sorry for the last part of my reply but I'm asking you why you should concentrate on under 18 issue to provide sex and again where in law it's stated that it's not illegal to provide paid sex for them. Just as an example look at AW site can any girl under 18 create an account as a SP if they hide their real age it's different. Am I right or wrong?

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I'm sorry for the last part of my reply but I'm asking you why you should concentrate on under 18 issue to provide sex and again where in law it's stated that it's not illegal to provide paid sex for them. Just as an example look at AW site can any girl under 18 create an account as a SP if they hide their real age it's different. Am I right or wrong?

I'm not concentrating on it. You are. Strawberry pointed out that the GD website was wrong on the point. I agreed with her and then you went off on one accusing people of being paedophiles merely because we pointed out that the website was wrong. I see that your post has now been deleted.

The criminal law doesn't generally state that it's not illegal to do something. There's no law that says it's not illegal to walk on the cracks in the pavement. That doesn't mean that it's illegal.

If you want to know the law on prostitution then a good place to start is the Sexual Offences Act 2003. Any reference to AW is irrelevant. AW's terms and conditions mean nothing.

Edited by Silverado

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The law is clear on following points-

It’s a criminal offence under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 for an adult to pay for sexual services with someone under the age of 18, and payment is defined as discharge of an obligation or provision of services, not just as an exchange of money.

Children under 18 involved in prostitution should be treated as victims of abuse.

Those who use child prostitutes should be prosecuted under sections 47 - 51 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

But none of the part of law states that children under 18 can provide paid sex legally. This could be some drawback of the law.

My point is that we got everything clear about those who are 18 or over 18 years old, there is no offense for paid service and they are entitled to work as a prostitute and for the clients it’s not an offence to pay for sex with 18 yrs group.

So who will go for under 18 group to have paid sex by breaking the law and why we will influence under 18 to be work as prostitute,

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The law is clear on following points-

It’s a criminal offence under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 for an adult to pay for sexual services with someone under the age of 18, and payment is defined as discharge of an obligation or provision of services, not just as an exchange of money.

Children under 18 involved in prostitution should be treated as victims of abuse.

Those who use child prostitutes should be prosecuted under sections 47 - 51 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

Correct.

But none of the part of law states that children under 18 can provide paid sex legally......

So who will go for under 18 group to have paid sex by breaking the law and why we will influence under 18 to be work as prostitute,

It's not a criminal offence for a person under 18 to offer sexual services for payment. The law treats them as victims and not criminals. It criminalises the person who pays for sex with a person under 18, and not the victim. I don't agree that our laws encourage children under 18 to become prostitutes by not criminalising them. The maximum penalty under s.47 SOA 2003 for a person convicted of paying for the sexual services of a child is a prison sentence of 14 years. I wouldn't want the child to be liable for the same penalty.

Twice now you've quoted the CPS website that the child prostitute should be treated as a victim of abuse, but yet you still want to criminalise them.

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Correct.

It's not a criminal offence for a person under 18 to offer sexual services for payment. The law treats them as victims and not criminals. It criminalises the person who pays for sex with a person under 18, and not the victim. I don't agree that our laws encourage children under 18 to become prostitutes by not criminalising them. The maximum penalty under s.47 SOA 2003 for a person convicted of paying for the sexual services of a child is a prison sentence of 14 years. I wouldn't want the child to be liable for the same penalty.

Twice now you've quoted the CPS website that the child prostitute should be treated as a victim of abuse, but yet you still want to criminalise them.

Isn't this a bit like the laws on alcohol in that it's illegal to sell alcohol to under 18s but it's not illegal for the under 18 to buy, ie there is not offence of buying alcohol underage, although the person can have their alcohol confiscated and the person who bought or sold the alcohol for/to them is the one facing charges.

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Correct.

It's not a criminal offence for a person under 18 to offer sexual services for payment. The law treats them as victims and not criminals. It criminalises the person who pays for sex with a person under 18, and not the victim. I don't agree that our laws encourage children under 18 to become prostitutes by not criminalising them. The maximum penalty under s.47 SOA 2003 for a person convicted of paying for the sexual services of a child is a prison sentence of 14 years. I wouldn't want the child to be liable for the same penalty.

Twice now you've quoted the CPS website that the child prostitute should be treated as a victim of abuse, but yet you still want to criminalise them.

All most every law there are some drawback so we shouldn't try to use that point rather than main outline of law and my point wasn't criminalizing them but we should avoid child prostitution if we spread it widely to them it's not illegal for you to provide paid sex that means we are influencing them. That's why I was referring AW site earlier at least they keep the standardization of UK law by not allowing under 18 as a service provider.

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Isn't this a bit like the laws on alcohol in that it's illegal to sell alcohol to under 18s but it's not illegal for the under 18 to buy, ie there is not offence of buying alcohol underage, although the person can have their alcohol confiscated and the person who bought or sold the alcohol for/to them is the one facing charges.

Nice example Stawberry they know if anyone sell alcohol to under 18 he or she'll be charged for that. So how they're going to buy alcohol, obviously in an unfair way.

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All most every law there are some drawback so we shouldn't try to use that point rather than main outline of law and my point wasn't criminalizing them but we should avoid child prostitution if we spread it widely to them it's not illegal for you to provide paid sex that means we are influencing them. That's why I was referring AW site earlier at least they keep the standardization of UK law by not allowing under 18 as a service provider.

And you think they can apply this effectively?

Not too long ago there was a documentary on the television in which they interviewed a girl of 16 or 17(I can't remember her exact age but she was under 18). She offered services on AW and she obtained clients that way. AW have no way of knowing if any SP is 18 or over. Ok some members may report profiles they suspect to be under 18 but how are they going to check?How do they know the ID they send is accurate and not that of someone else?

Almost all adult sites and directories carry the "18" or over disclaimer but it doesn't stop anyone of any age accessing, or uploading their details if they so wish.

I've actually heard of SPs who are in their 30s being accused of being underage, being asked to send in proof of D.O.B if that shows how accurate they are at spotting under 18s, combined with revelations from SPs who advertised on there under 18 without any problems it's hardly anything more than a few words in an attempt to cover their backs.

Edited by Strawberry

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And you think they can apply this effectively?

Not too long ago there was a documentary on the television in which they interviewed a girl of 16 or 17(I can't remember her exact age but she was under 18). She offered services on AW and she obtained clients that way. AW have no way of knowing if any SP is 18 or over. Ok some members may report profiles they suspect to be under 18 but how are they going to check?How do they know the ID they send is accurate and not that of someone else?

Almost all adult sites and directories carry the "18" or over disclaimer but it doesn't stop anyone of any age accessing, or uploading their details if they so wish.

I've actually heard of SPs who are in their 30s being accused of being underage, being asked to send in proof of D.O.B if that shows how accurate they are at spotting under 18s, combined with revelations from SPs who advertised on there under 18 without any problems it's hardly anything more than a few words in an attempt to cover their backs.

Well it’s true on their (AW) system it’s hard to justify the appropriate age of a member when anyone hides their real age. But AW made it clear they strictly monitor underage issue where terminating the membership and anyone can report about underage member.

If they opened the AW site for the underage without age restriction to create profile as a SP can you imagine what would happen?

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If we are playing the "spot the errors" game, here is a new offering:

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/four-scantily-clad-women-and-array-of-sex-toys-seized-during-police-raid-of-northamptonshire-sauna-1-2720284

And fifteen plods rushed in? What were the "sexual crimes" the four 20 year olds were arrested for? Interesting to note that the madam's arrest was, apparently, under POCA, not managing!

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