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YourSlave

Will England/wales Join All The Other Countries Proposing The "nordic" Model

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/26/government-pressure-review-prostitution-laws

The government is coming under increasing pressure to review prostitution laws in England and Wales, as neighbours consider following in the footsteps of Sweden and making the buying of sex illegal.

Another reason to hope the current Scottish proposal falls flat on its face, if it goes through in Scotland that will really get the anti-sexwork campaigners south of the border rallied up.

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Wonderful! Another reminder of the joys of living in Airstrip One.

Presumably commercial sex still goes on in the shiny Nordic utopias. Does anyone know what the rate of detection and prosecution is in these places?

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swedens final solution to prostitutes was an excuse to povertise sex workers in revenge for choosing sex work

the last govt wanted the nordic model but decided against it and they could have chosen it then with their majority, this time the lib dems are in coalition so hopefully will be against the nordic model again

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swedens final solution to prostitutes was an excuse to povertise sex workers in revenge for choosing sex work

the last govt wanted the nordic model but decided against it and they could have chosen it then with their majority, this time the lib dems are in coalition so hopefully will be against the nordic model again

We can but hope. :)

Although I would like to see Harman et al banished to the frozen wastes of the countries whose policies they find so congenial. There is a lot of empty space in Scandinavia.

Edited by zipless

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It won't happen straight away, but within 5 years, England and Wales could be a punting wasteland! Which is absolutely shocking given it's proud tradition in the industry! Also that it will make life so much more difficult for people who have chosen to work in the industry! FOR GOD SAKE LEAVE CONSENTING ADULTS ALONE!

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Making it illegal to pay for sex will certainly stamp out commercial sex.

Just like making it illegal to buy marijuana has made it impossible to find any for love or money and the criminal element involved in its sale and distribution have totally disappeared. Which means that the police don't have to waste precious time and resources chasing these rascals instead of concentrating on apprehending terrorists, child abusers, murderers, con men, burglars, sellers of illegal weapons and ammunition, ticket touts, insider traders and politicians caught with their hands in the public till.

And I am the Archbishop of Canterbury and Harriet Harman is really a lovely lady who teaches Tantric sex on Wednesdays above the chip shop in Peckham High St.

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Making it illegal to pay for sex will certainly stamp out commercial sex.

Just like making it illegal to buy marijuana has made it impossible to find any for love or money and the criminal element involved in its sale and distribution have totally disappeared. Which means that the police don't have to waste precious time and resources chasing these rascals instead of concentrating on apprehending terrorists, child abusers, murderers, con men, burglars, sellers of illegal weapons and ammunition, ticket touts, insider traders and politicians caught with their hands in the public till.

And I am the Archbishop of Canterbury and Harriet Harman is really a lovely lady who teaches Tantric sex on Wednesdays above the chip shop in Peckham High St.

:) And making mobile phone use illegal while driving has stamped it right out: I've not seen this ever, not never, since the law was introduced...

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:) And making mobile phone use illegal while driving has stamped it right out: I've not seen this ever, not never, since the law was introduced...

Me neither. Incredible how successful these measures are. Thank God for the wise and thoughtful people who rule over us.

Edited by zipless

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Is this let's post in sarcasm day? :D

Since the law was introduced over 10 years ago I also haven't seen a single person drive using a hand held mobile phone. The law has been an effective deterrent and has eradicated the practice.

Copyright laws have also eradicated the practice of illegally downloading copyrighted music and movies from the internet.

And the USA had such a success when they passed a law banning alcohol in 1920. Crime and alcohol comsumption dropped significantly when that happened.

And the anti-sex feminists were right- criminalizing the buying of sex really has reduced demand, in Iceland at least. No man in Iceland would dare respond to an advert for sex because of the effective deterrent of the law.*

(*in 2011 a fake prostitution advert was posted in Iceland for an experiment, within 3 hours over 100 men responded, quite a lot considering Iceland's tiny population)

http://grapevine.is/Home/ReadArticle/High-Demand-For-Prostitutes-In-Iceland

Edited by YourSlave

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The whole thing makes me so angry that it is difficult to write about it. At least sarcasm channels some of the anger. If I wanted to express how I really feel about these people who want to interfere in what consenting adults get up to it would be impossible for the moderators to allow the post to remain on view.

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The whole thing makes me so angry that it is difficult to write about it. At least sarcasm channels some of the anger. If I wanted to express how I really feel about these people who want to interfere in what consenting adults get up to it would be impossible for the moderators to allow the post to remain on view.

dont rant here. tell your fucking MP.

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dont rant here. tell your fucking MP.

My fucking MP has me down as a worky ticket and has stopped responding to my rants, however articulately phrased. :)

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Who knows in the medium to long term especially if Harridan and her ilk regain power, hers is a nonsensical crusade where any thoughts of helping WGs are irrelevant. She just wants to criminalise ALL punters, fortunately she couldnt get this through last time so had to go with her hugely successful coercion law, so successful our legal eagles havent found one prosecution. In reality it is designed to scare punters off punting in the first place because its a strict liability offence and ANY WG COULD be being coerced for all most punters would know as they arent privvy to her private life.

As with brothels and the street scene, both already illegal yet allowed to operate in many areas there is a big difference between passing a new law on prostitution and the police enforcing it. In many areas brothels have operated for years. Muddying the waters now is both POCA and potentially police commissioners who might view POCA as a nice little earner leading to more brothels raids.

Whatever laws are passed prostitution will ALWAYS find a way until we become a 24/7 monitored society, sadly it may well mean its a riskier practice for both WGs and punters, something Harridan and her ilk know but dont care about, shame on them.

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Nothing wrong with having a rant and releasing anger, as long as you express it in an appropriate place and remain civil and diplomatic with the people who you want to take you seriously (eg your MP/MSP)

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Does anyone know what the rate of detection and prosecution is in these places?

There wasn't much of an industry before the ban, other laws had taken care of that, this law was aimed

at street prostitution, mobile phones and internet was unheard of when the came up with this idea.

Punters with a brain go to neighbouring countries.

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Nothing wrong with having a rant and releasing anger, as long as you express it in an appropriate place and remain civil and diplomatic with the people who you want to take you seriously (eg your MP/MSP)

Which is exactly the way I play it. If I was going to rant (in my understanding of the word) here it would be a very different post from the restrained tone I used @ post #10. :)

If I wrote to my "fucking MP" I would also try to express myself with decorum. As it happens in 2009 I wrote to many (fucking?) members of the House of Lords when the Policing and Crime Act was being debated in that chamber. The only (fornicating or non fornicating) peers who bothered to respond were Baroness Miller who was virtually fighting a one woman battle against the clauses relating to prostitution and, several months after the event, Shirley Williams, who sent a standard reply with no reference to the subject matter.

The lazy fuckers. :D

So there will be no ranting here about this topic from me.

Edited by zipless

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Partly over the very real worry of contagion spilling over to England/Wales from plans to criminalise the punter in Scotland and The Irish Republic, I made sure I submitted my views to the relevant consultation bodies! If you are worrying about the future implications of the virtual inevitable, criminalisation of the punter in both those jurisdictions for the biz in England/Wales, then you should have submitted well thought out reasoned arguments to those bodies when you had the chance!

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Rhoda Grant said: "...If you recognise prostitution is violence against a woman..."

Well, in my experience, it isn't. I accept that there are cases of women being abducted, kept in slavery and forced to work in the sex industry but that isn't the majority of sex workers in the UK. There are car drivers who drive without a current licence or proper insurance - that isn't a reason to ban all drivers.

Violence against a woman is what happened to that unfortunate young woman in Delhi and the perpetrators should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Everybody has an understanding of what violence is and choosing to provide sexual services for an agreed payment is not it! Everybody has an understanding of what selling is and choosing to use one's body to provide sexual services for money is not "selling your body"!

These dogmatic, extreme feminists distort language in an attempt to create a false perception that suits their point of view: it's a form of deceit.

Where is the common-sense rationale in making the buying of a service a crime but not criminalising the selling of that service? The whole shaky construct is a bag of contradictions!

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Rhoda Grant said: "...If you recognise prostitution is violence against a woman..."

Well, in my experience, it isn't. I accept that there are cases of women being abducted, kept in slavery and forced to work in the sex industry but that isn't the majority of sex workers in the UK. There are car drivers who drive without a current licence or proper insurance - that isn't a reason to ban all drivers.

Violence against a woman is what happened to that unfortunate young woman in Delhi and the perpetrators should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. Everybody has an understanding of what violence is and choosing to provide sexual services for an agreed payment is not it! Everybody has an understanding of what selling is and choosing to use one's body to provide sexual services for money is not "selling your body"!

These dogmatic, extreme feminists distort language in an attempt to create a false perception that suits their point of view: it's a form of deceit.

Where is the common-sense rationale in making the buying of a service a crime but not criminalising the selling of that service? The whole shaky construct is a bag of contradictions!

Well the woman's a loon. Obviously if you BELIEVE that prostitution is violence against women then YES, obviously you'll want to see it abolished. But it isn't violence against women, it's just paying for sex. Also never fully understood the comment made by the head of the gov't dept. saying that he wanted the gov't to investigate whether new legislation would reduce the demand for prostitution. Well of course it would. Just as passing a law against the wearing of blue jeans would reduce the demand for blue jeans....but it doesn't mean that that law would be a desirable thing, or a correct thing. They keep trying to disguise the fact that it's a purely moral argument. In Scotland the 2009 legislation re: paying a woman subjected to force etc. is not in effect, so the trafficking argument is one that they're trying to peddle. However in England and Wales they're going to have an issue since every circumstance where there is a verifiable victim is already illegal. No matter how they try and spin it you can keep on at them with the point that the only possible circumstance under which a new law would allow an arrest that wasn't previously possible is where the punter is engaging in consensual sex. If she's a sex slave, I can already be arrested. Their argument seems to be that it's difficult to prove it, but lots of things are difficult to prove. How many convictions are there for Kidnap, False imprisonment etc. in relation to prostitution? A couple per year. So they basically have to admit that they're saying the police are horrifically incompetent and are having trouble finding that pesky evidence stuff, and therefore we need to make the whole thing illegal. How easy do they think it is to hold someone prisoner, force them to have sex with strangers, hand the money to them, whilst allowing the general public access to them, in private...and therefore the police access to them as well, in private. All without them saying a dicky-bird. Apparently the largest groups of sex slaves that are found are from Nigeria...now I have NEVER in my punting career seen a black African woman advertised. I've seen a handful on the net and they've all been Black British. So it seems one of the main sexual slavery groups is nothing to do with prostitution per se. It's more about enforced rape/slavery for a select group who are in the loop. Which actually makes sense given my earlier comment regarding how hard it must be to imprison someone as a slave and allow all and sundry access to them. Even if the police are only finding 2% of them then that still mean there's only about 100 in the country...hardly a problem so severe that it needs the whole industry closing down. Of course there's trafficking and coercion in places. It would be astounding if there wasn't - it's everywhere else. Domestic servants, factory workers, restaurant workers, cockle pickers on beaches, children as beggars accessories. They just don't like prostitution on moral grounds and so use the inevitable coercion in some cases to their advantage. They put the whole industry in the hands of criminals and then act surprised that there's a few dodgy goings on. Just as the production, supply and sale of Alcohol in prohibition era USA was a nasty business - nothing inherent, but obviously decent law abiding people kept away and so the criminals did what they did...

Edited by punter992005

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/26/government-pressure-review-prostitution-laws

This latest news combined with the spate of recent raids at brothels indicate times are getting beyond crazy. I did indeed make a submission to Rhonda Grant. I hate it, how we had to make the submissions direct to her. Better a neutral party.

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/26/government-pressure-review-prostitution-laws

This latest news combined with the spate of recent raids at brothels indicate times are getting beyond crazy. I did indeed make a submission to Rhonda Grant. I hate it, how we had to make the submissions direct to her. Better a neutral party.

Usual picture of a street walker and a car. Buying sex in this way is already illegal. But the trade though diminished still takes place.

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The only hope to counter misandrist feminists, manginas, white knights and religious nutters about their plans to criminalise sex work and introduce the Swedish Model are:

A) Sex Worker Advocacy Groups and Individuals

B) Civil Liberty Groups and Individuals

C) Men's Rights Movement - check out http://www.avoicefor...nice-feminists/ About how mainstream feminism is misandrist.

and http://kyle.thedamnedoldeman.com/?p=18 About Sweden's ideological depravity.

and http://kyle.thedamnedoldeman.com/?p=25 About Radical Feminist Ideology at the heart of the Swedish Model

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