MinxyLydia

Change Of Legislation In The Uk?

149 posts in this topic

Sorry if this should go in the legal section, but I thought it was important!

 

basically this is a link to The All Party Parliamentary Group on prostitution. http://appgprostitution.org/ who are launching an inquiry to assess the current UK legal settlement surrounding prostitution, and to identify how legislation to tackle demand could safeguard those in danger of sexual exploitation and abuse.

 

Sounds good?

However- According to . The Guardian (links to article) reported last week that according to Gavin Shuker (MP for Luton South)  "2013 is a year in which parliamentarians will be forcibly pushing for the laws around prostitution to be revised, especially in light of what is happening in devolved administrations," 


Shuker, is the chair of The All Party Parliamentary Group on Prostitution and the Global Sex Trade. There was an article he wrote on the APPG website which I saw last week but it appears have have been taken off.

 

It was a list of the 'Myths surrounding Prostitution' where Mr Shuker had listed the what he thinks are myths. Things along the lines that most women don't choose to become prostitutes. It used emotive terms such as 'sexual exploitation' and 'gender based violence' and brings up the usual words one associates with prostitution (note sarcastic eye roll) - drugs, domestic violence, abuse, coersion and so on.


However, Mr Shuker has failed to give us any idea where he got his clever ideas from;  no stats, no references, not even any anecdotal evidence. One wonders whether he came up with these ideas based on watching The Bill or Band of Gold. Clearly he missed The Secret Diary of a Call Girl.  

Shuker starts his missive "While a minority of women who enter prostitution claim to do so willingly, for the overwhelming majority it is a result of contributing factors including previous sexual abuse, debt, drugs, coercion, homelessness, domestic violence and others."

So, basically he already has a strong (biased, full of shite) opinion about what he thinks prostitution is all about- this is the guy chairing the inquiry. This is England's version of Rhoda Grant.

 

Anyway, be good if some of you could answer the questionnaire. Here is THE LINK

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To add-  It's not a straightforward questionnaire and takes some thinking about. When I have thought it through and completed it, I may post some more and I am sure there are plenty of other people who know better/are more articulate than me! 

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To add-  It's not a straightforward questionnaire and takes some thinking about. When I have thought it through and completed it, I may post some more and I am sure there are plenty of other people who know better/are more articulate than me! 

I think the questionnaire is intended more for organisations to fill in than individuals - I got passed it yesterday from the folk at Ugly Mugs and the questions include information about what your organisation does, how many service users/people accessing it you have and so forth - it isn't like the Rhoda Grant thing (although a lot of my response so far is similar, admittedly). There is straightforward stuff too, but as ever, they're not interested in the views of actual WGs and I suspect punters even less so, although that doesn't technically stop anybody filling it in.

 

I also didn't realise that it had a strong abolitionist bias until I got amongst it, and it's meant I've had to put it to one side until I have time to rethink my answers and go over the questions more carefully. I'm sick to death of these bloody things, if truth be told. Not answering the questions, more having to rewrite them before I can answer because the writers have taken so much trouble to ensure that no matter what we put, we'll look like we're either lying, condoning abuse or tacitly agreeing with them.

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Amy- I don't think that should deter people from answering. There is an 'Individual' option and you can bypass the section that ask for organisation name etc. The questions are asking for opinions that anyone can answer as you say.

 

It doesn't matter whose opinion they want, the more people who respond on the anti criminalisation side the better surely?!

 

I haven't answered yet because the answers do need thinking about! 

 

I was wondering if a kind of template can be created and made available for those who feel they should answer but can't face thinking about and completing the form?

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I know exactly where he got his ideas from. All MP's were issued a paper in Harriet Harman's time with which to make an opinion on. I managed to get a copy of those papers of my MP and did sit with her challenging her views at the time. They are extensive some 2000+ pages and do take some reading but.... And its a big but... The whole thing was put together way back in the early eighties and is based purely on street prostitution, child prostitution and trafficking. There is no mention of brothels, agencies or indies in this report whatsoever.

This sort of terminology is used a lot. I'll have a look for it and see if there is a copy online. Its hard reading but easy to see why MP's think the way they do if they read it.

As an aside, both the Poppy Appeal and the Church helped compile this report.

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Amy- I don't think that should deter people from answering. There is an 'Individual' option and you can bypass the section that ask for organisation name etc. The questions are asking for opinions that anyone can answer as you say.

 

It doesn't matter whose opinion they want, the more people who respond on the anti criminalisation side the better surely?!

 

I haven't answered yet because the answers do need thinking about! 

 

I was wondering if a kind of template can be created and made available for those who feel they should answer but can't face thinking about and completing the form?

 

Oh, I hadn't meant it to - I was just pointing out that it's not quite as straightforward the last one we did :).

 

I'll be looking at mine again over the weekend, that's for sure. What I may also do is write a direct letter commenting on the complete lack on balance and neutrality in the tone and content of the questions when it's presumably supposed to be just for gathering basic information from anybody with an interest. And suggesting alternatives.

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as a punter i dont think there is much i can do about this... anything i might say to these people would just be dismissed... and because there is no opposition i can see them getting their way eventually, probably putting vulnarable women in even more danger... they refuse to differentiate the different kinds prostitution...

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as a punter i dont think there is much i can do about this... anything i might say to these people would just be dismissed... and because there is no opposition i can see them getting their way eventually, probably putting vulnarable women in even more danger... they refuse to differentiate the different kinds prostitution...

 

With respect, that is the counsel of despair.

 

If the consultation allows individuals to express an opinion then everyone who can should express their opposition to further criminalisation. It may make a difference; and if it doesn't at least we will have tried. It will be better to have fought and lost than to have done nothing.

 

At the risk of being a bore I cannot urge enough all of you here who feel that they could oppose this rubbish to do so.

 

Please do not put your heads in the sand.

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If Labour win the next election then we're probably less than 6 years away from criminalisation of prostitution in England and Wales. Especially if by that time prostitution would have become criminalised in Scotland and/or NI and/or Ireland.

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If Labour win the next election then we're probably less than 6 years away from criminalisation of prostitution in England and Wales. Especially if by that time prostitution would have become criminalised in Scotland and/or NI and/or Ireland.

 

No reason not to do what we can to fight it now.

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With respect, that is the counsel of despair.

 

If the consultation allows individuals to express an opinion then everyone who can should express their opposition to further criminalisation. It may make a difference; and if it doesn't at least we will have tried. It will be better to have fought and lost than to have done nothing.

 

At the risk of being a bore I cannot urge enough all of you here who feel that they could oppose this rubbish to do so.

 

Please do not put your heads in the sand.

 

I agree, and I will be filling out the survey.

 

Yes, there are a lot of people out there who don't like what we do and don't want to listen to us, but I'm not going to make it easy for them by not speaking up!

 

If ladies like myself, ladies who are working happily and safely, don't speak up, then there is nothing to counteract the claims that we are all coerced / trafficked / mentally damaged / victims of violence...

 

The same goes for clients. If you aren't a woman hating sleazeball, then please say so. Some won't want to listen to you, but there will be some undecided on the matter who need to hear from those of us who don't fit the negative stereotypes. Those people could be the difference between your hobby remaining legal or not.

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I agree, and I will be filling out the survey.

 

Yes, there are a lot of people out there who don't like what we do and don't want to listen to us, but I'm not going to make it easy for them by not speaking up!

 

If ladies like myself, ladies who are working happily and safely, don't speak up, then there is nothing to counteract the claims that we are all coerced / trafficked / mentally damaged / victims of violence...

 

The same goes for clients. If you aren't a woman hating sleazeball, then please say so. Some won't want to listen to you, but there will be some undecided on the matter who need to hear from those of us who don't fit the negative stereotypes. Those people could be the difference between your hobby remaining legal or not.

 

Exactly. Well put. It is time to be heard.

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Right.

 

I have filled out and sent their questionnaire. It isn't too bad. You can opt to be an individual so it is not necessary to be part of an organisation. You can opt to be anonymous also (I didn't but that's my luxury, or downfall depending on how you see it).

 

The boxes given for answers appear ungenerous but if you keep writing they wil expand to accomodate your (hopefully) impassioned prose.

 

Q10 is shiftily phrased. I said so, explained my reasons. But MinxyLydia or others may wish to suggest a party line there.

 

So on to the next hurdle. :)

 

(or New Zealand, Thailand, Russia, North Korea, anywhere but here. :D :D )

Edited by zipless

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Right.

 

I have filled out and sent their questionnaire. It isn't too bad. You can opt to be an individual so it is not necessary to be part of an organisation. You can opt to be anonymous also (I didn't but that's my luxury, or downfall depending on how you see it).

 

The boxes given for answers appear ungenerous but if you keep writing they wil expand to accomodate your (hopefully) impassioned prose.

 

Q10 is shiftily phrased. I said so, explained my reasons. But MinxyLydia or others may wish to suggest a party line there.

 

So on to the next hurdle. :)

 

(or New Zealand, Thailand, Russia, North Korea, anywhere but here. :D :D )

Isn't too bad?

 

The section about "Have you come into contact with sex workers with the following issues and in what proportion?" is particularly bad. If you answer "Yes" I can see that then being quoted as "90(or whatever high percent) of people who responded say they have come across sex workers with an addiction problem". Most people will know many people in all walks of life with any one of the problems listed, none of whom are sex workers or have anything to do with the sex industry. I personally have come across at more people with just the same issues in a variety of other jobs, but can see how they will 'use' those responses and it's a load of codswallop!

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Isn't too bad?

 

The section about "Have you come into contact with sex workers with the following issues and in what proportion?" is particularly bad. If you answer "Yes" I can see that then being quoted as "90(or whatever high percent) of people who responded say they have come across sex workers with an addiction problem". Most people will know many people in all walks of life with any one of the problems listed, none of whom are sex workers or have anything to do with the sex industry. I personally have come across at more people with just the same issues in a variety of other jobs, but can see how they will 'use' those responses and it's a load of codswallop!

 

I answered "No" to the addiction problem. Simple. And true, by the way.

Edited by zipless

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There are some good comments below the article which are most definitely worth reading.. I doubt very much that it will have any impact this time round.. I also know from the past having spoken to her, that Theresa May is very understanding of the industry (unless she has changed her mind in the last couple of years)

This comment sums it up nicely:

Gavin Shuker is just some Labour twit who thinks he can revive the hopelessly bigoted, priggish and failed policy on prostitution the Brown government was pushing before it got kicked out.

There isn't the remotest chance that the Liberal Democrats would support a revival of that policy since they campaigned vigorously against it throughout, and the Coalition would therefore almost certainly reject such an idea.

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There are some good comments below the article which are most definitely worth reading.. I doubt very much that it will have any impact this time round.. I also know from the past having spoken to her, that Theresa May is very understanding of the industry (unless she has changed her mind in the last couple of years)

This comment sums it up nicely:

Gavin Shuker is just some Labour twit who thinks he can revive the hopelessly bigoted, priggish and failed policy on prostitution the Brown government was pushing before it got kicked out.

There isn't the remotest chance that the Liberal Democrats would support a revival of that policy since they campaigned vigorously against it throughout, and the Coalition would therefore almost certainly reject such an idea.

 

That is very reassuring information. Thank you.

 

I still think that as many people as possible should respond. If only to make work for the (unprintable) little member. :D

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Could this inportant topic be made a sticky  - At least until 4th Feb when the submission time for the questionaire closes ?

 

Have submitted mine.

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No reason not to do what we can to fight it now.

 

I agree.

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as a punter i dont think there is much i can do about this... anything i might say to these people would just be dismissed... and because there is no opposition i can see them getting their way eventually, probably putting vulnarable women in even more danger... they refuse to differentiate the different kinds prostitution...

Ladies & Gents,

 

Good Afternoon.  I'm here hoping to gather some opinions for an article I'm writing about prostitution and legislation, which will (may) be published here - http://thebackbencher.co.uk/ - The Backbencher is a Libertarian publication with no party political bias but a strong impulse against State led 'solutions' to social, local and personal issues.

I would be very grateful if I could talk to some sex professionals.

 

Ralhar,

Whilst I cannot guarantee that your views will be considered if you do complete the survey, I can guarantee that they wont be considered if you don't.

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Sorry if this should go in the legal section, but I thought it was important!

 

basically this is a link to The All Party Parliamentary Group on prostitution. http://appgprostitution.org/ who are launching an inquiry to assess the current UK legal settlement surrounding prostitution, and to identify how legislation to tackle demand could safeguard those in danger of sexual exploitation and abuse.

 

Sounds good?

However- According to . The Guardian (links to article) reported last week that according to Gavin Shuker (MP for Luton South)  "2013 is a year in which parliamentarians will be forcibly pushing for the laws around prostitution to be revised, especially in light of what is happening in devolved administrations," 

Shuker, is the chair of The All Party Parliamentary Group on Prostitution and the Global Sex Trade. There was an article he wrote on the APPG website which I saw last week but it appears have have been taken off.

 

It was a list of the 'Myths surrounding Prostitution' where Mr Shuker had listed the what he thinks are myths. Things along the lines that most women don't choose to become prostitutes. It used emotive terms such as 'sexual exploitation' and 'gender based violence' and brings up the usual words one associates with prostitution (note sarcastic eye roll) - drugs, domestic violence, abuse, coersion and so on.

However, Mr Shuker has failed to give us any idea where he got his clever ideas from;  no stats, no references, not even any anecdotal evidence.

Shuker starts his missive "While a minority of women who enter prostitution claim to do so willingly, for the overwhelming majority it is a result of contributing factors including previous sexual abuse, debt, drugs, coercion, homelessness, domestic violence and others."

 This is England's version of Rhoda Grant.

 

Anyway, be good if some of you could answer the questionnaire. Here is THE LINK

 

Gawd! I have completed it. I was surprised not to find, "Have you yet stopped raping your wife/partner?"

 

Who or what is Shuker? If anybody here voted for him, please explain why!

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Gawd! I have completed it. I was surprised not to find, "Have you yet stopped raping your wife/partner?"

 

Who or what is Shuker? If anybody here voted for him, please explain why!

 

I googled the little s**t. He looks as though he is about 12 years old. He is MP for South Luton. Perhaps he was simply the least bad of an appallingly bad bunch.

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Oh and here is the official document of what they are doing and who is involved- http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/prostitution-and-the-global-sex-trade.htm

 

Note the purpose- The purpose of the group is to raise awareness of the impact of the sale of sexual services on those involved and to develop proposals for government action to tackle individuals who create demand for sexual services as well as those who control prostitutes; to protect prostituted women by helping them to exit prostitution and to prevent girls from entering prostitution.

 

The bold type is you lot! 

Edited by MinxyLydia

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Ladies & Gents,

 

I would be very grateful if I could talk to some sex professionals.

I would also like to talk to Punters as well.

Anonymity will be guaranteed if desired.

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