aussiecrocsss

Hiv-How Real A Threat?

75 posts in this topic

Just wondering if anyone has experience with any known person to them (or friend of friend., etc) contracting this virus via punting. Interested in both punters and SPs.

I'll throw my two cents out there-none. I have a friend back in the States who is gay and caught it at a bathhouse when he was in his teens and having anonymous sex-and unprotected-with men. Not a shocker, but anyway, that's my only experience with this disease at a personal level. Incidentally, he's in top health, plays tennis all the time and 40 now, so lived with it for 20+ years.

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   I have known 4 people who died with aids .  Not through punting , but it did make me take a break for a few years in the early nineties .  All 4 were gay .  Two were friends and the other two were partners who I bought a business from them  [ let's say they had to make a quick sale   :(  ]

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I remember when HIV arrived we were told that everyone would know someone who would die of AIDS. Thank God it never took offn insert your own reason here. Predictibly it stopped being a sex disease or a drug disease and ended up being a killer of poor blacks in Africa.

Me? I keep wearing my condom and paying to charities to help contain the horrors

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It's not a threat if you use condoms.

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Thankfully no I don't know of anyone who has HIV/AIDS or had it.  It's also good to know that it is no longer like the story Philadelphia with Tom Hanks, as that was not something I would like to see anyone go through.  It is still incurable, but they can now live a fairly normal life.  I think the hardest part is probably relating to children, who are either born with it or wanting to start a family and not wanting to pass it on.

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I've known people -- friends -- live with and die because of the virus. All were gay men, not that that makes the remotest bit of difference. In the very early days, when pig ignorance ruled, the general public liked to pretend that HIV was somehow limited to the homosexual community as if a virus was going to say "oh, she's a woman, not interested in infecting her." Viruses are rather nicer than people in some ways; they don't discriminate...they leave prejudice to us.

 

One friend, more or less at the start of the epidemic, I spent a perfectly normal lunch hour with on a Tuesday and the following Monday a mutual friend told me he had died the previous day. He had gone into hospital suddenly with PCP (what they used to call AIDS-related pneumonia) on the Thursday and simply expired 48 hours later. He was a talented artist and his work, thankfully, survives him. He was 28. Another friend, closeted, received his diagnosis by phone while I was sitting a few feet away from him at work, unaware of the nature of the phone call. His partner, another colleague, slipped away imperceptibly, without drawing attention to either his illness or his sexuality. So it was in those days. While the general public taught us largely how to hate, the gay community taught us how to live, and die, with a great deal of dignity.

 

I won't bang on. I hope in some small way this e-mail pays tribute to lost friends by making people stop and think.

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Aussiecrocsss,

 

Maybe he has medication that prevents him from getting AIDS.

 

There are a few people who are immune to HIV for genetical reasons. They won't ever die of AIDS, infected with HIV or not. Whether their bodies can actually kill the HIV or that they still contain HIV and also control it, I don't know. I still assume that those people can contaminate others with HIV, who can get ill and die.

 

I don't know how big the percentage is of people that are immune to HIV.

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Nobody is immune to HIV. Everyone can contract it. This is an IMPORTANT CORRECTION to your post above. However, there is a group of infected people known as "controllers" whose bodies have the ability to keep the virus under wraps without resort to antiretroviral therapy (HAART). Of course, nobody knows if this will be the case permanently but it appears that it will be. Approximately 1 in 500 of the HIV+ population is believed to be a controller (i.e. 0.25%). Their bodies do not kill the HIV virus; they simply prevent it from replication so their viral load remains very low.

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Both the people I knew who died of Aids were gay, BUT....

 

one lived in California and I would guess had behaved fairly recklessly in the seventies, as they all did - not only multiple partners, but drug abuse too;

the other was also an ex-alcoholic, so presumably his system was in pretty poor shape anyway.

 

Conversely, I also knew a chap who discovered his gayness in his early twenties. He was very, very pretty indeed. He would go to several parties a week, where he was in great demand, as, apart from his looks, he discovered a great talent as a buggeree (which he enioyed immensely). Throughout the seventies he was buggered by about thirty or forty people a week, and has never suffered a day's illness in his life.

I remember it well: we heteros were making do with whatever crumbs came our way, while there was this sexual banquet going on next door.

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Nobody is immune to HIV. Everyone can contract it. This is an IMPORTANT CORRECTION to your post above. However, there is a group of infected people known as "controllers" whose bodies have the ability to keep the virus under wraps without resort to antiretroviral therapy (HAART). Of course, nobody knows if this will be the case permanently but it appears that it will be. Approximately 1 in 500 of the HIV+ population is believed to be a controller (i.e. 0.25%). Their bodies do not kill the HIV virus; they simply prevent it from replication so their viral load remains very low.

 

In that case I should be considered as referring to "controllers". And maybe Aussicrocsss' friend is a "controller". That is just a guess, because I don't know if he gets medication (I believe that to be AZT); I haven't read that (yet). The proof of my previous post (also considering your reply to it) I found in

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050325234239.htm

Edited by hans66

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It's not a threat if you use condoms.

And don't let men cum in your mouth / go down on women who are menstruating. At least not without having 100% clarity on their health status.

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In this respect it is riskful to let men cum in your mouth, that is true. But what going down on women, who are not menstruating, but whose vaginal lubrication you are swallowing. It may happen a few times that I swallowed vaginal fluid (which increases when the woman is aroused, not having an orgasm per se). It makes me think that male cum has more HIV (when he is contaminated with it) than female vaginal fluid.

 

What you are saying, Randombird, has been confirmed by a Dutch website about STD. Therefore, it is preferable that a WG only should apply a blowjob with a condome, and that a man can apply cunnilingus without protection.

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Hans66, that is correct and is how I work. Now smiths is going to pipe up with his risks and rewards, which is his choice, but I'd be too concerned with not trusting a guy not to CIM to truly enjoy giving him head OWO. Plus there's other stuff too and I don't believe in having the state pay to clear up avoidable messes.

Anti-retroviral therapy costs in excess of 20,000 USD per annum; people who contracted the illness despite sticking to the rules have my sympathies, the others should damn well pay for their own treatment. And those who lie to their partners about their status and infect them should go to jail and pay damages. I have a friend who is HIV positive because of this, very sad.

Edited by randombird

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Hans66, that is correct and is how I work. Now smiths is going to pipe up with his risks and rewards, which is his choice, but I'd be too concerned with not trusting a guy not to CIM to truly enjoy giving him head OWO. Plus there's other stuff too and I don't believe in having the state pay to clear up avoidable messes.

Anti-retroviral therapy costs in excess of 20,000 USD per annum; people who contracted the illness despite sticking to the rules have my sympathies, the others should damn well pay for their own treatment. And those who lie to their partners about their status and infect them should go to jail and pay damages. I have a friend who is HIV positive because of this, very sad.

Thats right my choice as is what services a WG offers, they are 100% responsible for their own decision making as i am for the services i partake in. BB in punting is madness and those WGs and punters that do it fucking idiots in my opinion. Personally i only do the services agreed so dont CIM if thats not on offer, but i have total control over my own body and respect for the agreement made with the WG.

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CIM is a risk behaviour for HIV transmission, demand creates an offer, while you have regular check-ups, I've heard men say in the same breath that they won't even consider booking a WG who doesn't offer CIM but that they've never gotten a check-up because they are scared... of course it's a free choice but demand is increasing, as are the risks due to increased prevalence of STI. Well done everybody, hedonism ad absurdum. If someone is prepared to take a stranger's cum in her mouth, BB is not really that much more of a risk, now is it?

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In my circle I have 4 friends who died of aids, and 3 who are HIV positive at the moment. All of them were/are male gays. As for punting.... my ex is a doctor  currently treating a heterosexual male in his twenties who got the virus through unprotected sex with a street girl in the US (they think she was a junkie). I can't fathom to imagine why in these day and age someone will have unprotected sex with a street hooker. You live to see...

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There is a sickening development I recently was made aware of on another punting forum, it concerns 'bug-chasing' and 'gift-giving', two terms that I had not previously encountered. Google them, I had to.

 

There was a link to a third forum where members discuss their exploits. I'm not sure whether this can be discussed in detail on here  but they apparently seek out WGs that offer BB and particularly anal BB so that they can inseminate them with their HIV+ fluids.

 

One such WG operates in MK, so I mentioned this already on the MK forum, here is the link if you want to read more about their gross irresponsibility. It may well be fiction and internet bravado, but I will be avoiding!

Edited by venturer

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One such WG operates in MK, so I mentioned this already on the MK forum, here is the link if you want to read more about their gross irresponsibility. It may well be fiction and internet bravado, but I will be avoiding!

 

You've got to be kidding. I would like to question the legal aspect of these er... "bug chaser" forums. There's been quite a lot of people being sentenced for spreading HIV (fact:  it's a crime). Unfortunately nowadays you find  "suicide" forums of people discussing  "techniques", anorexic girls giving tips to each other on how to starve themselves and murders uploading their videos. Nothing surprises me anymore on the web... Seriously..what is next?

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There is a sickening development I recently was made aware of on another punting forum, it concerns 'bug-chasing' and 'gift-giving', two terms that I had not previously encountered. Google them, I had to.

 

There was a link to a third forum where members discuss their exploits. I'm not sure whether this can be discussed in detail on here  but they apparently seek out WGs that offer BB and particularly anal BB so that they can inseminate them with their HIV+ fluids.

 

One such WG operates in MK, so I mentioned this already on the MK forum, here is the link if you want to read more about their gross irresponsibility. It may well be fiction and internet bravado, but I will be avoiding!

I was disgusted by this also. I dont think its clear yet though wether the mk girl mentioned is even aware she is the target for hiv pos guys now. She may be offering bb in the assumption that its rare and never expect to be actually targeted by an hiv fetish group hoping to "gift" her with the virus , perhaps a well meaning punter could warn her of their intentions as something like this may never have occured to her. Im hoping that im right and giving her the benefit of ignorance or hope x

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@randombird-you would be incorrect equating bareback vaginal or anal with CIM, statistically speaking anyway. There are a host of studies available on the web that put the chances between zero and 1/10,000 for oral transmission. Bareback anal by comparison, with an infected partner could be as high as 1/10, and vaginal at 1/50 to 1/100 in terms of risk-wi an infected partner. Far lower for general population.

I'm surprised nobody has any stories of WGs and infection. Just have never heard it out there, in thousands of posts, news, etc. I realise it's not the kind of thing an escort agency would exactly tell you about if it happened, and maybe when some girls 'disappear' its because they got sick, but I have yet to hear anyone talk about it...

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I cant believe those guys on that forum, that is just so mind blowing sick! Surely the police should be secretly keeping an eye on those murderers.

 

I've never known anyone catch HIV via punting, other than the usual - its the end of the world... scaremonger stories you read about.

 

Of all my life i've only ever known one person catch HIV. About 17 years ago, my dads friends 18y/o daughter was clubbing one evening and someone jabbed a needle into her followed by a sticking a label on her saying "welcome to the HIV club".

 

Also, someone who used to be a best friend at school, we're now 32, i found out last year he was always gay. Someone told me he had been having lots of one night stands, even being paid for sex, literally all totally bareback. I could not believe it. He now has a girlfriend as of last month, must be his first ever girlfriend, and wow is she the most ugliest thing i have ever seen in my entire life, except the elephant man movie.

Edited by sparkstar

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@randombird-you would be incorrect equating bareback vaginal or anal with CIM, statistically speaking anyway. There are a host of studies available on the web that put the chances between zero and 1/10,000 for oral transmission. Bareback anal by comparison, with an infected partner could be as high as 1/10, and vaginal at 1/50 to 1/100 in terms of risk-wi an infected partner. Far lower for general population.

I'm surprised nobody has any stories of WGs and infection. Just have never heard it out there, in thousands of posts, news, etc. I realise it's not the kind of thing an escort agency would exactly tell you about if it happened, and maybe when some girls 'disappear' its because they got sick, but I have yet to hear anyone talk about it...

I am not equating, just saying that it is also a risk (the numbers I was given are different to yours) and if you are prepared to take a certain known risk, taking a certain larger one is not such a leap of faith. To me it's a case of "no stranger's cum is entering my body via any orifice" - either you allow that barrier to be broken or you don't.

BTW, BB is more prevalent than you think; I know guys who only punt with the same few girls over months and it is the WG who quite often offer their "regulars" BB or in some cases just do it without asking. They don't even charge extra for it. I guess the sense of intimacy coupled with often being from places where BB is pretty much standard may make this seem ok to the WG. Funnily enough they always say that it's a total exception and because the client is special but again, either you allow BB or you don't.

I get quite a few requests for BB BECAUSE I only see few clients and am very "safety-oriented" - they specifically state that they picked me because they didn't want to catch anything from "some dirty foreign whore". I usually ignore them and forward their message to other indies I know so they can avoid them too but sometimes I call them up on their idiocy and racism.

Edited by randombird

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A bit scary on BB...anytime you engage in BB, regardless of what you think about the other party, you are playing Russian Roulette.

I attach a link for anyone interested that discusses the various forms of oral sex and risk of transmission. As Randombird says, the risk of receptive oral by a negative person with an HIv positive man is there, but again, it's simply very low. There is basically no risk for a man who receives oral from an HIV partner, interestingly. I read another study of a few hundred couples where man was HIV + and woman HIV - and they followed them for a few years, where they never engaged in unprotected sex, but would have uncovered oral with CIM and they recorded no instances of infection.

Given the literally thousands of blowjobs with CIM going on every day and no stories or reports of even a small outbreak of HIV related infections, I surmise the risk is quite low.

http://mobile.aidsmap.com/Oral-sex/page/1044877/

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I am not equating, just saying that it is also a risk (the numbers I was given are different to yours) and if you are prepared to take a certain known risk, taking a certain larger one is not such a leap of faith. To me it's a case of "no stranger's cum is entering my body via any orifice" - either you allow that barrier to be broken or you don't.

BTW, BB is more prevalent than you think; I know guys who only punt with the same few girls over months and it is the WG who quite often offer their "regulars" BB or in some cases just do it without asking. They don't even charge extra for it. I guess the sense of intimacy coupled with often being from places where BB is pretty much standard may make this seem ok to the WG. Funnily enough they always say that it's a total exception and because the client is special but again, either you allow BB or you don't.

I get quite a few requests for BB BECAUSE I only see few clients and am very "safety-oriented" - they specifically state that they picked me because they didn't want to catch anything from "some dirty foreign whore". I usually ignore them and forward their message to other indies I know so they can avoid them too but sometimes I call them up on their idiocy and racism.

Its a bit silly really, how many escorts who would never do BB and will do OWO/CIM, yet they won't allow BB with a regular client who is willing to get a new test cert done or go with the escort to the clinic to prove he is clean.

If i was a female escort who enjoyed BB, the only time i'd do it with clients is if he showed me a proper test certificate to prove he is clean, and if i was more paranoid about it then go to the clinic with him, and if i had seen him recently at least once before with a condom.

My last regular escort who i was seeing for almost a year for overnights every month, i literally never shagged anyone else because i know how difficult it is to try find an escort who will allow BB who doesn't do it with just anyone - she would not allow BB with me the first time i met her, until next time i showed her a brand new test certificate. I havnt seen an escort for 6 weeks now, i also havnt had any sexual contact with anyone, and probably wont shag anyone until near christmas time - for 2 reasons, i need to save money, and if im not overly attracted to the escort then im scared of going soft when the condom goes on.

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Its a bit silly really, how many escorts who would never do BB and will do OWO/CIM, yet they won't allow BB with a regular client who is willing to get a new test cert done or go with the escort to the clinic to prove he is clean.

If i was a female escort who enjoyed BB, the only time i'd do it with clients is if he showed me a proper test certificate to prove he is clean, and if i was more paranoid about it then go to the clinic with him, and if i had seen him recently at least once before with a condom.

My last regular escort who i was seeing for almost a year for overnights every month, i literally never shagged anyone else because i know how difficult it is to try find an escort who will allow BB who doesn't do it with just anyone - she would not allow BB with me the first time i met her, until next time i showed her a brand new test certificate. I havnt seen an escort for 6 weeks now, i also havnt had any sexual contact with anyone, and probably wont shag anyone until near christmas time - for 2 reasons, i need to save money, and if im not overly attracted to the escort then im scared of going soft when the condom goes on.

 

 

Hiv can take weeks or months to how up in a test, so either you or your escort could be positive despite having a 'clean,brnd new test''

 

Any escort doing bb with punters is stupid and the same goes the other way round!!!

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