gibbs

Fr Discrimination Against Indies?

111 posts in this topic

I was glancing through the latest batch of FR's and in one of them, by a regular contributor to these pages, was the comment of how few FR's there are on indie ladies compared with ladies from establishments.

It struck a chord with me because I've always visited indies. Indeed deliberately avoids parlours etc and when looking at the list of FR's I skim down picking out the indie FR's. Well over 90% of the FR's must be on non-indie ladies.

Why is that? Do the vast majority of men avoid indies? I find that hard to believe. Do indie ladies indicate a preference for not wanting an FR? Do the other ladies push for an FR? Is there an obvious answer that I've not seen?

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I was glancing through the latest batch of FR's and in one of them, by a regular contributor to these pages, was the comment of how few FR's there are on indie ladies compared with ladies from establishments.

It struck a chord with me because I've always visited indies. Indeed deliberately avoids parlours etc and when looking at the list of FR's I skim down picking out the indie FR's. Well over 90% of the FR's must be on non-indie ladies.

Why is that? Do the vast majority of men avoid indies? I find that hard to believe. Do indie ladies indicate a preference for not wanting an FR? Do the other ladies push for an FR? Is there an obvious answer that I've not seen?

There will always be far more FRs on Establishments of course as they have multiple WGs working at them and some like HOD and the known MK Parlours always get a consistent number of them on here. Add Agencies to Parlours which also get consistent FRs and in my view that answers why.

 

And of course unlike with Establishment WGs where links can be given with Indies off Adultwork links cant be given so if a punter books a WG off A/W using a booking request and the WGs phone number isnt displayed which means its not in the public arena a FR cant be done unless the WG agrees to display it, and this assumes of course that the FR author is strictly following the FR rules. This limits the number of FRs from A/W WGs, i am assuming here the rules havent changed. Add not being able to mention A/W in the FR or the WGs A/W nickname and some punters presumably cant be bothered doing them, and i know this is the case with some.

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I agree with what you say Smiths but could I just add a bit of explanation as to why the comment by the FR author made me think.    My punting pond is anywhere within reasonable driving distance of the M6 corridor from the scottish border down to, and including, Birmingham and it's suburbs.    I think that that is quite a large pond in which to go fishing and yet in the twelve months that I have been indulging I would say that I've probably read only a dozen FR's on ladies who fall within my pond.  Probably slightly more because your memory plays tricks on you but not many more.    Compare that with the vast number of FR's on ladies in parlours etc.

 

Take the lady in the FR in question.   Apart from her AW profile (I've been doing some Sherlock investigation - or should I say She look - sorry about that but I couldn't resist showing my infantile humour) she has two fully professional websites running plus links from other sites.  She has apparently been plying her wares for some time and has a good track record with many happy clients.    But she only has two FR's on Pnet both in the last few months.

 

I thought that this was surprising and then started thinking of the FR's as a whole which made me ask the question.   I can't believe that the vast majority of her clients have never heard of Punternet?   Or that the vast majority of her clients can't be bothered to write an FR?   Or that she doesn't want people to know how good she is at making men enjoy themselves whilst in her company?

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I agree with what you say Smiths but could I just add a bit of explanation as to why the comment by the FR author made me think.    My punting pond is anywhere within reasonable driving distance of the M6 corridor from the scottish border down to, and including, Birmingham and it's suburbs.    I think that that is quite a large pond in which to go fishing and yet in the twelve months that I have been indulging I would say that I've probably read only a dozen FR's on ladies who fall within my pond.  Probably slightly more because your memory plays tricks on you but not many more.    Compare that with the vast number of FR's on ladies in parlours etc.

 

Take the lady in the FR in question.   Apart from her AW profile (I've been doing some Sherlock investigation - or should I say She look - sorry about that but I couldn't resist showing my infantile humour) she has two fully professional websites running plus links from other sites.  She has apparently been plying her wares for some time and has a good track record with many happy clients.    But she only has two FR's on Pnet both in the last few months.

 

I thought that this was surprising and then started thinking of the FR's as a whole which made me ask the question.   I can't believe that the vast majority of her clients have never heard of Punternet?   Or that the vast majority of her clients can't be bothered to write an FR?   Or that she doesn't want people to know how good she is at making men enjoy themselves whilst in her company?

I can certainly believe the majority of her punters havent heard of Pnet, thats my experiences from speaking to many many punters at parties over the years, and from speaking to many WGs, especially EE WGs. If you take the number of members there are its of course a fraction of the number of punters there must be and even allowing for some who arent members but read FRs its in my view (unprovable though) still only a small percentage.

 

What we get on here are certain SPs getting many FRs as i said in my previous post, some of that is because of the high profile they have on here, HOD, Annabellas in MK, Maxes Angels as examples. Indies sometimes become forum darlings at least for a while, as Natasha did among others, she also worked in MK so benefited from her own profile on here and that of her Establishments, and in her case FRs were very well deserved in my own personal experiences of punting with her and doing them on her.

 

Another point which the relatively new regional boards may help with is London and MK both in the South obviously get more FRs overall than other areas lately, or at least thats been my observations, so FRs have tended to be London/South centric in my view of late. MK is an odd one because relative to its size it punches far above its FR quota compared to some bigger cities as the stats show. MK. its third behind Greater London and Manchester in fact in FRs done. Manchester is the one Northern area that consistently does well for FRs and lately Sheffield has been getting a number i see. Hopefully the regional boards will help with this over time, although who knows how many FR authors dont read the forum. In my case i didnt even know there was a forum as i never clicked on Message Board uninspired by it being called Message Board instead of a Forum, so just read FRs for quite a while before one day clicking on Message Board to discover it was a forum and then joined.

Edited by smiths

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who knows how many FR authors dont read the forum. In my case i didnt even know there was a forum as i never clicked on Message Board uninspired by it being called Message Board instead of a Forum, so just read FRs for quite a while before one day clicking on Message Board to discover it was a forum and then joined.

 

That's a very good point.   I joined Pnet to leave an FR on a lady.    I had never heard of it until she mentioned this site (although I was very new to punting at the time) and she told me about both the FR's and the Message Board.  It's quite possible that if I had stumbled across Pnet by accident that I would have done exactly the same as you because Message Board does mean something entirely different to Forum.

 

Perhaps the Mods would like to flag it up for Galahad to consider changing the name.    It may well be, of course, that Galahad has a perfectly good reason for prefering Message Board but on the face of it it would seem a positive move.

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Im sure I read some where a long while ago a comment a guy made in that he would do a review for a parlour girl but not an indie, his reasoning was that a parlour girl needs to see more guys to earn her money whilst the indies keep all the money. The fact is that after bills, rent etc we come out about the same I would say but we have only our own reputations to earn from. That view seemed to me as silly as the guys who say they will buy a gift for  an indie but not a parlour girl, as if they arent worth it or something which is just ridiculous. x

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Do Clients treat parlour girls & independent girls differently?

 

Do girls who both work independently & for a parlour feel clients who see them at a parlour act different than if they see a client ( the same or not) at their own place or on a outcall?

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I'm like you Gibbs, I see more indy.  And I'm guilty of not writing many FR since  - I don't know - a hangover from not being even able to say the words Adult and Work. I should write up all my experiences both to help the kind ladies who spend time with me, and the other gents.  So the rule is we can't mention their AW name in the FR? I never got round to reflecting on the current do's and don'ts. Sorry if this sounds pathertic, but I avoid the whole issue by not sharing experiences.  

 

There are many girls with agencies, but I bet it is not 90%. 

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as an indie myself  I strongly dislike FR's

 

I am a woman not a product. I sell my consent, not my soul. 

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Do Clients treat parlour girls & independent girls differently?

 

Do girls who both work independently & for a parlour feel clients who see them at a parlour act different than if they see a client ( the same or not) at their own place or on a outcall?

I dont, i treat ALL WGs the same, with respect assuming they are honest, have a good attitude and keep to their end of what was agreed, but with distain if not.

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as an indie myself  I strongly dislike FR's

 

I am a woman not a product. I sell my consent, not my soul. 

I have also met girls who don't want punters to recommend them on to all and sundry, and I appreciate where your coming from. 

 

However, I have done more FRs on agency girls than indies simply because of the rules.  The issue of not placing an FR for a girl unless she has a published phone number makes it an awkward point when many indies only show there number at certain times.  Does this make it a published number or not?  I therefore tend not to place an FR in case I am adding a permanently published number when the girl doesn't want it.

 

Does that make sense? :unsure:

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I have also met girls who don't want punters to recommend them on to all and sundry, and I appreciate where your coming from. 

 

However, I have done more FRs on agency girls than indies simply because of the rules.  The issue of not placing an FR for a girl unless she has a published phone number makes it an awkward point when many indies only show there number at certain times.  Does this make it a published number or not?  I therefore tend not to place an FR in case I am adding a permanently published number when the girl doesn't want it.

 

Does that make sense? :unsure:

It does. Your point about a published or not number is a good one, if the number was put in the public arena at some time would it be breaking the rules for a FR author who does a FR at the time he saw the number on the WGs profile, but the number later was taken down.  A FR is a moment in time in my view, a punter cant be blamed or be responsible for using the number in his FR then the WG takes it down, he might not even know it has come down.  Actually asking her is what i would advise, if she says fine, but then changes her mind after the FR is online thats down to her, although she may well have a good reason for that, she would have to contact Galahad and explain in my opinion.

 

As to being asked not to do FRs i too was asked not to be a number of WGs for various reasons.

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as an indie myself I strongly dislike FR's

I am a woman not a product. I sell my consent, not my soul.

But in selling your consent you are turning yourself into a commodity of sorts. A field report doesn't steal your soul, it's a recommendation for other guys. There is a no reports list you can request you be on if you dislike them so much. You just have to ask Galahad xx

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as an indie myself  I strongly dislike FR's

 

I am a woman not a product. I sell my consent, not my soul.

I can't understand your logic Candy. I come to visit you and have a great time. I enjoy it so much that I want to tell other people what a great person you are; you delivered the services you agreed to; premises were clean etc etc. What objection do you have to me writing an FR?

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So the rule is we can't mention their AW name in the FR?

As I understand it although we can now refer to AW in posts (although I still like "the purple site" ) we still can't mention it in FR's. But that doesn't mean you can't do an acceptable FR.

Maybe Galahad or one of the Mods could post on this thread to confirm the correct procedure.

Edited by gibbs

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I have also met girls who don't want punters to recommend them on to all and sundry, and I appreciate where your coming from. :

If I would like to leave a favourable FR I always ask the lady's permission. I have met ladies who, for differing reasons, don't want an FR and I've honoured their wishes.

If I'm going to leave an unfavourable report then obviously I don't say anything I just do it.

I have done more FRs on agency girls than indies simply because of the rules.  The issue of not placing an FR for a girl unless she has a published phone number makes it an awkward point when many indies only show there number at certain times.  Does this make it a published number or not?  I therefore tend not to place an FR in case I am adding a permanently published number when the girl doesn't want it.:

Why not just ask her if she wants the number publishing. I can understand if she is someone who doesn't hand out the number until you've booked but if it's on her website/profile then the question doesn't arise. If she agrees to you doing a favourable FR then surely it is implicit that it's ok to include the phone number.

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I don't see that there is any problem of doing a favourable FR on a lady who is solely on AW provided she agrees to you using her phone number. If she advertises herself as Susie and she is based in Salford then there is no problem. Susie69? Just drop the 69. If she advertises herself as SalfordSlut then omit any reference to it and submit it as Susie of Salford. If she doesn't show her phone number ask her if you can use it.

I know it works because I've done it. If you don't want to do it or she's not keen then ok. Unfavourable FR? Print the number.

The FR's are there to tell other punters about WG's both good and bad but it does defeat the object of warning punters about bad ones just because you haven't got a phone number and therefore the FR can't be printed.

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So far this year I have 75 references / field reports on AW, 7 on LBB, ( I am Manchester based) plus 1 on me as half of a duo, just 1 on me on here. The one on here only shows my phone number, not full information about me and my most important contact information, Which ones do I think are most important regarding my work? I'm currently putting my own website together, where will I concentrate my advertising (and spending) regarding the fact it exists, probably where I know it will get most noticed as an indie.

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Personally I would not want or do want any feedback done on Pnet, I enjoy the forum but it is very much an old boys network and some girls work in fear of turning down or upsetting someone known from these sites.  i know of some who will pander to the forum members just to ensure that they do not get bad mouthed or god forbid left a negative feedback.  And unfortunately being a fiery redhead I am due to tread on some toes.

 

There is a need for feedback but unfortunately at times some will use it to their advantage and they know it to manipulate and intimidate. 

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I think that you may have misunderstood the purpose of the thread, Delilah, because it isn't about telling you where you should advertise or how you should spend your hard earned cash.     I was simply asking the question as to why there are so few FR's on Punternet about indies compared with the number of FR's about ladies who operate from parlours etc.

 

I would have thought that clients who prefer a longer booking with an indie would be more likely to have left an FR than a client who prefers the shorter booking.   

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Personally I would not want or do want any feedback done on Pnet, I enjoy the forum but it is very much an old boys network and some girls work in fear of turning down or upsetting someone known from these sites.  i know of some who will pander to the forum members just to ensure that they do not get bad mouthed or god forbid left a negative feedback.  And unfortunately being a fiery redhead I am due to tread on some toes.

 

There is a need for feedback but unfortunately at times some will use it to their advantage and they know it to manipulate and intimidate. 

In my early days in MK I did encounter one or two who mentioned straight away "I'm on punter net", it was  a bit intimidating also to be told by a receptionist that a guy was on here. I always gave everyone the same level of service though so there wasnt any "extra" to give them anyway. Once I was a poster on here though that changed, the next time a guy announced at the beginning of a booking that if I treated him well he would do me a nice review I just told him straight, everyone is treated the same wether your online or not, by the way, Im on punternet too, do say hello next time on the forum wont you, it sooooooon shut him the fuck up. After that I just said "me too" and never let anyone bother me. The stupidist thing is that the guys who announce it are unlikely even to be on here, they have just seen the reviews and think they can use it to their advantage. Im a redhead too and I dont suffer fools easily. 

 

I prefer pnet reviews or adult work reviews, they hold more sway than aw feedback. Its easier to get aw feedback than a punternet review, its harder to get an adult work review than a punternet review as most guys take the easier route and just leave the feedback x

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as an indie myself  I strongly dislike FR's

 

I am a woman not a product. I sell my consent, not my soul.

Yeah maybe I'm a little old school but I'm not comfortable with FRs anymore than I am comfortable with salacious tabloid articles about the private lives of vacuous celebrities. I think what happens between a WG and a client is by and large private and I'm not going to review them like I'm reviewing a laptop on Amazon or something.

I think AW gets it right with a little one line comment and rating. No need to go any further than that. As an aside I also always see indies because they usually seem to have more personality and I'm not comfortable with the idea of others creaming off their earnings. I was under the impression that that was how agencies and parlours work although someone can correct me if that's inaccurate.

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Personally I would not want or do want any feedback done on Pnet 

 

That's one perfectly acceptable explanation and if any lady doesn't want a feedback doing then it's her decision.  

 

 some girls work in fear of turning down or upsetting someone known from these sites.  i know of some who will pander to the forum members just to ensure that they do not get bad mouthed or god forbid left a negative feedback.  

 

I would hope that no lady on here was in fear of accepting a booking from me.   There are definitely some who don't pander to me.  

 

unfortunately being a fiery redhead I am due to tread on some toes.

 

I could put up with you treading on my toes but just leave my other bits alone.  :wacko:     And stilettos on the chest?   :(    Do you want to see how fast I can run?   Particularly when it's away.    :D

 

There is a need for feedback but unfortunately at times some will use it to their advantage and they know it to manipulate and intimidate. 

 

I would hope that Galahad would pick up on that and deal with the person accordingly.    If Galahad didn't pick up on it then the lady should complain.

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 I think what happens between a WG and a client is by and large private and I'm not going to review them like I'm reviewing a laptop on Amazon or something.......I think AW gets it right with a little one line comment and rating. No need to go any further than that.

 

The one liners on AW really aren't worth a damn really.    What do they normally say?     From the guys response " she was absolutely fantastic et etc".    From the lady " what a great time we had.   look forward to seeing you again".      I know that there are sub-texts that the ladies use to identify between what the punters are like in their manner and cleanliness but that's a seperate matter.   So I would disagree that AW gets it right.    One of my worst punts was with a lady who had accumulated about 80 favourable one liners on AW in the space of six months.    By last December she had 160 plus.   Strangely enough she hasn't had any in the last five months. 

 

I would agree that you are not writing a porn novel.    I don't like the idea of a guy sitting in front of his pc and masturbating whilst reading an FR that I've written.   But what happened isn't the be all and end all of it.    Think about what else you are asked to consider.   How easy was it to find the premises; what about parking etc; what were the premises like;  was there disabled access (joke!!!); what about the lady's personality (looks aren't everything); how welcoming was she; did you still have your hand attached to your arm after she took the money; what was the bedroom like; shower; after punt defibrillator;  was she in a rush to get rid of you.

 

It's not just about a report on the actual action sequences.   Don't do a blow by blow account.   That comes across as ego.   Aren't I fantastic.    She was ok but what about me.   At the other end of the scale please don't write " what happened between us will remain in my memory as our special moment".   Someone please get me the sickbag.     But it is up to the individual what they do.

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The one liners on AW really aren't worth a damn really.    What do they normally say?     From the guys response " she was absolutely fantastic et etc".    From the lady " what a great time we had.   look forward to seeing you again".      I know that there are sub-texts that the ladies use to identify between what the punters are like in their manner and cleanliness but that's a seperate matter.   So I would disagree that AW gets it right.    One of my worst punts was with a lady who had accumulated about 80 favourable one liners on AW in the space of six months.    By last December she had 160 plus.   Strangely enough she hasn't had any in the last five months. 

 

I would agree that you are not writing a porn novel.    I don't like the idea of a guy sitting in front of his pc and masturbating whilst reading an FR that I've written.   But what happened isn't the be all and end all of it.    Think about what else you are asked to consider.   How easy was it to find the premises; what about parking etc; what were the premises like;  was there disabled access (joke!!!); what about the lady's personality (looks aren't everything); how welcoming was she; did you still have your hand attached to your arm after she took the money; what was the bedroom like; shower; after punt defibrillator;  was she in a rush to get rid of you.

 

It's not just about a report on the actual action sequences.   Don't do a blow by blow account.   That comes across as ego.   Aren't I fantastic.    She was ok but what about me.   At the other end of the scale please don't write " what happened between us will remain in my memory as our special moment".   Someone please get me the sickbag.     But it is up to the individual what they do.

I agree, those other factors you mentioned are noteworthy and are all a part of the experience. Hadn't thought of them as I usually don't read FRs. Personality would definitely be something worth remarking upon, although I still think AWs feedback is fit to purpose on that account.

I suppose there are some girls with stellar feedback on AW who might not be everything they cracked up to be, but the unregulated nature of the industry means there's always a chance you're going to be disappointed IMHO.

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