Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
YourSlave

Prostitution Debate In Edinburgh- Free Admission To The Public

35 posts in this topic

http://www.solas-cpc.org/events/prostitution-debate/

 

PROSTITUTION DEBATE

Monday 3rd June 2013 at 7.30pm

Rhoda Grant MSP  (Scottish Labour  party proposer of the Holyrood bill to criminalise the buying of sex)
Richard Lucas (SOLAS Centre for Public Christianity)

VS

Laura Lee (Sex Workers’ campaigner and blogger)
Douglas Fox (International Union of Sex Workers)

Chaired by James Dixon

Macdonald Holyrood Hotel

81 Holyrood Road Edinburgh,

EH8 8AU

Free admission, unticketed

Includes an opportunity for
audience questions

 

 

Does anyone know if there is parking nearby?

 

And I wonder if there will be refreshments served?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The winner of a debate is normally the better debater, not the one on the right side of an argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It will also depend on whoever is chairing the debate. Will the Chair allow each party equal time to present their argument or will it be as one sided as the Irish television debate that Laura Lee took part in not long ago were the prat (sorry - slightly biased) presenting the "hang 'em all" argument received about five times the amount of time as Laura. Even though he kept repeating himself.

Edited by gibbs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Parking is usually ok at that time of night near there. I'll just take the motorbike :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OMG! What on Earth, they are going to debate about?! :-)

 

Keep one parking for me guys B-)

 

I hope before they start, they will make us drunk :-D

 

P.S. Wanna see their faces if no one come

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know Edinburgh, hope I don't get lost :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're all going ? Jeez, no pressure then !  :eek:

 

Actually it will be good to know there are supporters there.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so looking forward to this one:

In debating terms, it's like William Lane Craig versus Christopher Hitchens discussing theism, or Anne Widdecombe versus Stephen Fry debating Catholicism.

It's a heavyweight match-up, with great hair on the libertarian side, not that that should sway any arguments.

Make no mistake Grant versus Lee with a decent referee is worth charging a fee.

Lucas versus Fox perhaps should be free, smiles

Go see.

 

Thanks to YourSlave for the heads-up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I park at the hotel itself? Will they charge me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Make no mistake Grant versus Lee with a decent referee is worth charging a fee.

 

Unfortunately, Grant beat Lee in the last major confrontation between those names.  Laura, both punters and Dixie are backing you for revenge!

Edited by hotdogburger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I park at the hotel itself? Will they charge me?

Based on this, there are only 24 parking spaces at the hotel ( @£20/day ) so realistically no, you can't park there unless you're both loaded and call to book.

There's plenty of parking in Holyrood park ( free after 5:30 ish ) and at Waverley Station ( £4.50 after 6pm ) both about 0.5 mile walk away, and sveral other alternatives in between though.

Edinburgh transport is loaded in favour of buses, cyclists, and train travellers including park and riders

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, Grant beat Lee in the last major confrontation between those names.  Laura, both punters and Dixie are backing you for revenge!

 

Thank you.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I add my enthusiastic support for your cause Laura.  Please let us have your impressions and thoughts once the debate has taken place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't have enough time to go so I just got drunk in Glasgow instead :)

 

Here's the debate on Youtube:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone look tired out.  Well done Laura though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that some of these MSPs dont have anything else better to do with thier time. Just like the one who is pushing about disability parking but if you email her with things about the private companies RIPPING folk off she does not reply. Then we have the Green MSP, what a total and utter waste of space, another one who does not bother to reply to your emails and is just there as a list MSP.

 

I think some of them just want to make a name for themselves and that is the one thing they are going to push during thier time in office. Maybe they should be cleaning up their OWN parties and MPs and MSPs and MEPs and god only knows what the councilors are getting upto before they attack women and men who work in the sex industry. They say there is crinimal gangs running the girls...but what about the taxi and private hire industry? The security industry? The list is endless...

 

Argghhhhhh so frustrating.......  oh Laura your a star by the way...way to go.....x

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having done a few shifts in Edinburgh saunas I'm scared about the developments last week.  Glasgow is terrible and these debates need to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it went well and that the general direction of the questioning from the rather small audience seemed sympathetic. (By the way, who was that sharp woman MSP who asked an intelligent question?)

Two things worth thinking of for the next occasion:

1) The Christian man's strongest moment came when he invited us to think of a world where prostitution was completely normalized: career advisors in schools suggesting it, job centres pushing it, and so on. It's a debating point, but an effective one, and it didn't really get answered full on.

2) It might not work with the Christian, but one way of trying to focus the nature of the question is to say: look, pretty well everyone would agree that the state does not have any business sticking its nose into what two consenting adults get up to in bed. Why does this change if money exchanges hands?

 

Good on ya, Laura!

Edited by Mr. Bloom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did think that maybe enough wasn't made about this industry policing itself or how these politicians are shooting themselves in the foot by pushing it underground.  If nothing else in these dark days of recession there is a vast amount of lost revenue in the form of taxes by not decriminalisation which seems mad, to say nothing of the lost votes from the hundreds and thousands of working girls and punters out there for the labour party.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that we have some sex workers willing to go public in this way, it's worth thinking about image and how best to get the message across. Laura seemed fine to me from this point of view: sensible, clear, reassuring and calm. The male sex worker made a lot of good points, but he sounded a bit burbling, unfortunately (chronic burbler speaking here, and one who has to do a lot of public speaking, so I'm alive to the problem). The Christian, unfortunately, came over well image-wise. First time I'd seen Rhoda Grant - God, what a pain!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that we have some sex workers willing to go public in this way, it's worth thinking about image and how best to get the message across. Laura seemed fine to me from this point of view: sensible, clear, reassuring and calm. The male sex worker made a lot of good points, but he sounded a bit burbling, unfortunately (chronic burbler speaking here, and one who has to do a lot of public speaking, so I'm alive to the problem). The Christian, unfortunately, came over well image-wise. First time I'd seen Rhoda Grant - God, what a pain!

 

See now I thought the Christian came across as a self serving idiot and thought the male sex worker shot some good points out there.  The best had to be the other politician in the audience though, that was classic and I hope the Scottish girls are getting her to help fight their cause.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See now I thought the Christian came across as a self serving idiot and thought the male sex worker shot some good points out there.  The best had to be the other politician in the audience though, that was classic and I hope the Scottish girls are getting her to help fight their cause.

 

The Christian was good in that he came over as an ordinary sort of a guy, he was humorous, he didn't use evangelical language, he could fire off statistics (probably wrong, but it looks good), and he didn't sound as if he was on a moral crusade, but like an ordinary concerned member of society. Yes, of course, he was talking complete bollocks, but it was very plausible-sounding bollocks - whereas the last video we saw of Laura v a Christian, the Christian was an obvious total pillock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish I had logged into Punternet a couple or so weeks ago and seen this was going to be on in Edinburgh especially now I am just across the Scotish boarder now, I would have like to have gone to this.

 

Bravo Laura, another here that would like to thank your standing up for the community, clients and prostitutes.

 

I would have loved to point out to Rhonda when she goes on about the financial inequality between woman and men when it comes to 'rich men being able to buy woman' that prostitution is one of the few industries that closes that gap! 

 

Is the country really in a position now to take away one of the few remaining industries that any woman can find themselves a place in if they so chose? 

 

Also never enough time to debate these things, you have to prioritise what you say in a short amount of time, I would loved to have heard more about how the NZ and NSW model works rather than how the Swedish doesn't.

 

And it makes my blood boil when they talk about the clients like that, they are not a sub human species, (more than mostly)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Christian was good in that he came over as an ordinary sort of a guy, he was humorous, he didn't use evangelical language, he could fire off statistics (probably wrong, but it looks good), and he didn't sound as if he was on a moral crusade, but like an ordinary concerned member of society. Yes, of course, he was talking complete bollocks, but it was very plausible-sounding bollocks - whereas the last video we saw of Laura v a Christian, the Christian was an obvious total pillock.

 

 

I agree the Christian bloke, was the strongest of the 4 debaters and I think he actually scored the most significant blows and even a knockout. He did it without using his religious motives too. He also managed to  one up the pro prostitution "freedom of choice" arguments by simply stating "that all laws restrict freedom"  and it's society's preponderance of morality which decides the law, worryingly this was greeted with a tired argument about cars accidents and cars, if I remember which seemed a bit desperate.

 

 

The most disturbing part was when Douglas Fox accepted the Richard Lucus' absurd proposition of having the sex worker careers fair at schools.  Richard Lucus used faulty logic to dupe Douglas Fox to get to into his position, but the guy  still walked into it. Amateur Hour.

 

 

When Richard Lucus aka Christian bloke argued that sex "was special" I'm surprised no one pointed out that sex being "special" is not a biological fact, it is a social construct, moreover it was a social construct in an era that no longer exists. Also, 2 people an escort and a punter  have the right to make sex "not special" if they choose. The fact that sex is "not special"  would be illustrated by the fact that if you go to any nightclub a huge amount of people will leave with someone who's name they don't even know, sexual behaviour is very liberal in the western world as it is in nature once old religious stereotypes stop influencing the behaviour of individuals. The current prostitution law reflects society's attitude to sex as it is now.

 

Following on from that, they could have  asked the Christian bloke  if he had a problem with people having (safe)  sex freely in general without being in relationships and waited for his answer, he would have then had to open himself up about his real agenda, that would have been a chance for a bob an overhand right to the chin Mayweather style.

 

 

Anyway, Not great really. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

When Richard Lucus aka Christian bloke argued that sex "was special" I'm surprised no one pointed out that sex being "special" is not a biological fact, it is a social construct, moreover it was a social construct in an era that no longer exists. Also, 2 people an escort and a punter  have the right to make sex "not special" if they choose. The fact that sex is "not special"  would be illustrated by the fact that if you go to any nightclub a huge amount of people will leave with someone who's name they don't even know, sexual behaviour is very liberal in the western world as it is in nature once old religious stereotypes stop influencing the behaviour of individuals. The current prostitution law reflects society's attitude to sex as it is now.

 

 

 

Absolutely. This is the kind of argument public debaters need to have in place and at their fingertips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0