Ghenghis

BBC1 Poilitics Show Trafficking

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There is apparently an itme on trafficking in the BBC1 Politics Show now showing.

Report back afterwards

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I get too wound up listening to all this trafficking nonsense. On LBC radio yesterday a woman phoned in to Ken Livingstone and told him that 85% of the prostitutes working in London are trafficked and were tricked into coming to the UK with the promise of normal jobs ----- that is total bollocks. :o

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There is apparently an itme on trafficking in the BBC1 Politics Show now showing.

Report back afterwards

Interesting that the moment the statistics are challenged we got, "let's not go into the statistics because they are so hard to establish". My mind is made up. Please do not bother me with the facts.

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Well although it was short and sweet, in my opinion Niki Adams of the English Collective of Prostitutes absolutely debunked the trafficking statistics myths and made some very valid points (However I am biased here).

Mary Honeyball was clearly very badly briefed and once the trafficking stats were demolished she tried to shift grounds to "I think a debate based on the numbers would be absolutely pointless!" To which Niki distinctly said "Now, you say that!".

Honeyball's main argument was that because she had stood outside County Hall with a petition on which she had got 1800 signatures "it must be a significant problem!". :o One can see exactly how qualified she is to be an MEP and represent us.

So overall, a useful piece and maybe the start of a coherent and logical fight back against those who would drive the industry underground and in so doing make prostitution far more dangerous for the average working girl.

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Mary Honeyball is a great name for any aspiring WG. :o

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For any loony leftie feminist lurkers who may be reading this thread.

We hear various figures regarding the problem of trafficking, some as high as tens of thousands.

Now let's look at some actual FACTS.

During operation Pentameter 2 --------

55 police forces took part

515 premises were raided

84 women were confirmed as "trafficked victims"

I wonder how many of those 84 were actually here by choice, quite a few I would imagine.

Operation Pentameter 2 Results ------

http://www.pentameter.police.uk/docs/pentameter.pdf

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Mary Honeyball was clearly very badly briefed and once the trafficking stats were demolished she tried to shift grounds to "I think a debate based on the numbers would be absolutely pointless!" To which Niki distinctly said "Now, you say that!".

Honeyball's main argument was that because she had stood outside County Hall with a petition on which she had got 1800 signatures "it must be a significant problem!". :o One can see exactly how qualified she is to be an MEP and represent us.

Mary Honeyball, who she? A new name on me, so I wikipediaed her and was struck by this paragraph:

"When commenting on the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill last spring, Mary Honeyball asked whether ministers, such as Ruth Kelly and Des Brown, should be allowed to sit on the front bench of government if they follow the Pope's whip above the government's. In the same article, Mary Honeyball also said that Catholicism exercised a "vice-like grip" on the legislative processes over large parts of Continental Europe, blocking women in Ireland and Portugal's right to an abortion. This was cited as a contributory reason for the resignation of Conor McGinn, the vice chairman of Young Labour who described it as a "sectarian diatribe"."

You don't need to feel any sympathy for the Vatican position on fertilisation and abortion to notice the intolerant mindset. If New Labour has a future, she should go far.

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For any loony leftie feminist lurkers who may be reading this thread.

We hear various figures regarding the problem of trafficking, some as high as tens of thousands.

Now let's look at some actual FACTS.

During operation Pentameter 2 --------

55 police forces took part

515 premises were raided

84 women were confirmed as "trafficked victims"

I wonder how many of those 84 were actually here by choice, quite a few I would imagine.

Operation Pentameter 2 Results ------

http://www.pentameter.police.uk/docs/pentameter.pdf

Surely helping women who have been trafficed or been forced to work against their will is a good thing?

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Mary Honeyball, who she? A new name on me, so I wikipediaed her and was struck by this paragraph:

"When commenting on the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill last spring, Mary Honeyball asked whether ministers, such as Ruth Kelly and Des Brown, should be allowed to sit on the front bench of government if they follow the Pope's whip above the government's. In the same article, Mary Honeyball also said that Catholicism exercised a "vice-like grip" on the legislative processes over large parts of Continental Europe, blocking women in Ireland and Portugal's right to an abortion. This was cited as a contributory reason for the resignation of Conor McGinn, the vice chairman of Young Labour who described it as a "sectarian diatribe"."

You don't need to feel any sympathy for the Vatican position on fertilisation and abortion to notice the intolerant mindset. If New Labour has a future, she should go far.

Get a look at this too. The woman's an idiot.

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Surely helping women who have been trafficed or been forced to work against their will is a good thing?

Of course it is, and JRC has been consistently saying that in his posts.

However, that is like "Mom, Apple Pie and the Merkin Way!!" run it up the flag pole so everyone salutes mindlessly.

The point is that all the time the real issues are being confused and obfuscated by political agendas there will be no real progress towards stopping this happening in the few real cases that do exist in the UK.

No-one should be forced into prostitution in this country (Or indeed the world) and in this century. Of course it should be fought and the perpetrators gaoled for long periods commensurate with this sort of crime. But, and there is always a but, the prosecution of punters who are using non-trafficked prostitutes who are there quite willingly, is totally the wrong way to combat it.

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Get a look at this too. The woman's an idiot.

Copied her response to a comment from her from her comments page:

Dr Brooks-Gordon, Thank you for this comment. I take your point about the figyres. However, I do take issue with your comment that I find prostitution a bit 'icky'. Prostitution is exploitation of women for fianacial gain. Few women either enter or stay as prostitutes willingly and most have a drug habit. I want every single woman to have the opportunity for a fulfilling life; prostitution most definitely does not provide this

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Get a look at this too. The woman's an idiot.

She proves it in her own words. She is even a Vernon (Vote for me and I will say anything you want!) Coker fan.

The Labour Government has been very vigilant on the fight to stamp out trafficking. When I organised my "Tackling Trafficking" conference two years ago, we were joined by the then Home Office Minister, Vernon Coker. I therefore call on the Met to see sense and keep the trafficking unit.

Trans: Two of us agree, therefore it is fact!

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Surely helping women who have been trafficed or been forced to work against their will is a good thing?

Yes, but maybe the police resources would have been better used in dealing with the other forms of trafficking which are far more widespread, this is just one example where immigrants were used for cheap labour. ---

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/3464203.stm

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Interesting that the moment the statistics are challenged we got, "let's not go into the statistics because they are so hard to establish". My mind is made up. Please do not bother me with the facts.

Heh. She is happy to use statistics (inflated by her side and thoroughly misleading) until they are challenged and then retreats into this position.

I look forward to the Olympics being ruined (as she suggests in Amy's link) by the tidal wave of trafficked women arriving :o :o. Total nonsense and I am sure that most right thinking people will see it that way.

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Of course it is, and JRC has been consistently saying that in his posts.

However, that is like "Mom, Apple Pie and the Merkin Way!!" run it up the flag pole so everyone salutes mindlessly.

The point is that all the time the real issues are being confused and obfuscated by political agendas there will be no real progress towards stopping this happening in the few real cases that do exist in the UK.

No-one should be forced into prostitution in this country (Or indeed the world) and in this century. Of course it should be fought and the perpetrators gaoled for long periods commensurate with this sort of crime. But, and there is always a but, the prosecution of punters who are using non-trafficked prostitutes who are there quite willingly, is totally the wrong way to combat it.

Good, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

Personally I think the Pentameter 2 operation was a good thing and even one girl being saved I would have classed it as a success. In fact 84 girls and 188 girls "rescued" (although Im not sure what their definiation of rescued is)

Although I have heard rumors that they were going to stop it which is very dissappointing.

Sounds like its wasnt for helping forced girls but for pushing politcal agendas and ended up not proving what they thought. Shocking......

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Get a look at this too. The woman's an idiot.

Dear oh dear, makes you want to find an alternative to the human race to belong to.

The comments section, including her replies, is an object lesson in how a politician fails to address serious issues proposed to her.

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Good, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

Personally I think the Pentameter 2 operation was a good thing and even one girl being saved I would have classed it as a success. In fact 84 girls and 188 girls "rescued" (although Im not sure what their definiation of rescued is)

Imagine this scenario, you are a girl living in a poor country such as Thailand, you eventually manage to get into the UK and see your earnings increase tenfold --------- within a few weeks you are "rescued", how would you feel ?

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Dear oh dear, makes you want to find an alternative to the human race to belong to.

The comments section, including her replies, is an object lesson in how a politician fails to address serious issues proposed to her.

Just saw her comment:

Catherine, Thank you very much for this. I obviously am not against the work those in the sex industry do with people with disabilities. However, my comments in the blog post still stand

Oh so prostitutes who visit people with disabilities are okay then. :o So they are automatically not on drugs and coerced. While those who visit non-disabled are stocked to the eyeballs and been trafficed?

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My blood is boiling at the moment but I need to think happy thoughts and remind myself that she is just another clueless idot full of stats and hot air.

Overworked.....now I realise why so many of Liz Hilton's posts make no sense!

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It is mainly our fault.

After all, we allow these mindless idiots to become Members of Parliament and Members of the European Parliament and to make laws and pronounce on things.

It is well past time we started voting again and encouraging the people we vote for to have sensible agendas. Maybe, if it is not too much to ask for, we could find some candidates with a minimum of half a brain??

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All extremists of all hues deal in fantasy not facts. They use spurious figures, even then distort them beyond reason and when they are undermined move on to another premise.

Unfortunately, in the past few years the problem has got worse, under the banner of political correctness extremists can pass themselves off as normal, thus they are increasing in number. It's the 'in' thing.

A quick look at Honeyball's utterances suggest she is completely irrational, totally unfit to be in any position of influence, and nothing more or less than a crank, yet she is being accorded 'non-padded cell' treatment by the media and press.

The great problem will arise, as surely it will, when the opposite forces (reaction to the present action), get their acts together, and this country may well become a less than fun place to be.

No doubt Harman, Honeyball etc will get their cumuppance but what will old Blighty be like when they do?

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It is mainly our fault.

After all, we allow these mindless idiots to become Members of Parliament and Members of the European Parliament and to make laws and pronounce on things.

It is well past time we started voting again and encouraging the people we vote for to have sensible agendas. Maybe, if it is not too much to ask for, we could find some candidates with a minimum of half a brain??

Good point. However as Ken Livingstone said ifvoting changed anything it would be abolished.

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Just saw her comment:

Catherine, Thank you very much for this. I obviously am not against the work those in the sex industry do with people with disabilities. However, my comments in the blog post still stand

Oh so prostitutes who visit people with disabilities are okay then. :o So they are automatically not on drugs and coerced. While those who visit non-disabled are stocked to the eyeballs and been trafficed?

And punters with disabilities are OK too it would seem. How disabled do I have to be to qualify as an OK punter I wonder? Are some disabilities more 'worthy' than others? I wonder how disabled people feel about being patronised in this way?

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It amazes me how often that so called "experts" who talk about a subject that you happen to know about more than the average person then you find the "expert" is talking rubbish.

It comes to down the old adage "bullshit baffles brains".

So when an "expert" talk about something that I don't know, I keep thinking that I am just being fed bullshit. I suppose it is a problem of living in a time when spin is everything and the truth is just an inconvenience.

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