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Guardian Headline

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http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/11/uk-nordic-model-prostitution-clients-buyer-sex

 

The new headline of the Guardian online, suggesting that the UK follows suit with France and Sweden in making it illegal to pay for sexual services. Maybe this is a rhetorical question, but why does this campaigning so readily conflate 'sexual services' with an assumption of human trafficking and even slavery ? They are so way off the mark : in hundreds of paid (and consensual) sexual experiences, I have only ever come across a single incident where I thought trafficking was involved, and I walked away because I didn't want anything to do with it. I'm sure this is a fairly well worn path on this forum, but the fact is that the campaign to make paid sex illegal seems to be gaining ground at the moment. 

 

 

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Half the Cabinet will be dismayed by the article!!!!!!!

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http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/11/uk-nordic-model-prostitution-clients-buyer-sex

 

The new headline of the Guardian online, suggesting that the UK follows suit with France and Sweden in making it illegal to pay for sexual services. Maybe this is a rhetorical question, but why does this campaigning so readily conflate 'sexual services' with an assumption of human trafficking and even slavery ? They are so way off the mark : in hundreds of paid (and consensual) sexual experiences, I have only ever come across a single incident where I thought trafficking was involved, and I walked away because I didn't want anything to do with it. I'm sure this is a fairly well worn path on this forum, but the fact is that the campaign to make paid sex illegal seems to be gaining ground at the moment. 

The why is because it presumably sells newspapers to link the two, and it music to the ears of people like Harriet Harridan of course. I dont know if the campaign to make paid sex illegal is actually gaining ground or not but i am in no doubt if Harridan gets back in in 2015 she will resume her crusade to criminalise ALL punters.

 

However just as with her coercion law it will be designed to scare punters off punting rather than to nick punters as to nick indoor punters punting with Indies who arent breaking the law as it stands would take vast resources and of course the co-operation of the police. The police in many areas let already illegal street prostitution and brothels to operate so why they would start nicking indoor punters which would be harder work to catch i cant see happening. IMO such a law would scare some punters off though and understandably so.

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This is gaining momentum :-(

 

I've been active in the escort scene for over 10 years, it makes me angry that I'm potentially seen as a 'problem' by articles like this and the commenters, when otherwise I'm a law-abiding person with no criminal record and a respectable job, who has always tried to treat WGs well.

 

This will put off people like me, because I'm not prepared to take the risk. I have too much to lose. Branded a 'criminal punter' and my employer informed about it? I have no idea what kind of monitoring tactics or stings the police will have to employ.

 

Also annoys me that the opinions of people who plainly know nothing about the escort scene and rely on casual stereotypes are taken so seriously when they spout off about it, basing it on a documentary they once watched and high profile cases in the papers. They haven't a clue what this will mean and what will happen. The UK is different to Scandinavia, a different culture, different in population terms- this could go badly wrong if they ever try to enforce it. It's just another step toward the unpleasant nanny-police state the United Kingdom is gradually becoming.

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The why is because it presumably sells newspapers to link the two, and it music to the ears of people like Harriet Harridan of course. I dont know if the campaign to make paid sex illegal is actually gaining ground or not but i am in no doubt if Harridan gets back in in 2015 she will resume her crusade to criminalise ALL punters.

 

However just as with her coercion law it will be designed to scare punters off punting rather than to nick punters as to nick indoor punters punting with Indies who arent breaking the law as it stands would take vast resources and of course the co-operation of the police. The police in many areas let already illegal street prostitution and brothels to operate so why they would start nicking indoor punters which would be harder work to catch i cant see happening. IMO such a law would scare some punters off though and understandably so.

 

This comment in the article says it all with the current government thankfully:

 

A Home Office spokeswoman confirmed there were no plans to review prostitution laws.

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http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/11/uk-nordic-model-prostitution-clients-buyer-sex

 

The new headline of the Guardian online, suggesting that the UK follows suit with France and Sweden in making it illegal to pay for sexual services. Maybe this is a rhetorical question, but why does this campaigning so readily conflate 'sexual services' with an assumption of human trafficking and even slavery ? They are so way off the mark : in hundreds of paid (and consensual) sexual experiences, I have only ever come across a single incident where I thought trafficking was involved, and I walked away because I didn't want anything to do with it. I'm sure this is a fairly well worn path on this forum, but the fact is that the campaign to make paid sex illegal seems to be gaining ground at the moment. 

 

Yes I've noticed - regrettably

 

 

 

This comment in the article says it all with the current government thankfully:

 

A Home Office spokeswoman confirmed there were no plans to review prostitution laws.

 

Thank god for that

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Picking easy targets. In my humble opinion the most horrendous sex crime at the moment is the sexting of underaged kids. This horrendous pressure on teen girlsvto forward naked pics goes on unchallenged. But it is easier to nail solitary punters than take on mega global phone companies.

Where are the radical fire brands of yesteryear when girls really need them?

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This comment in the article says it all with the current government thankfully:

 

A Home Office spokeswoman confirmed there were no plans to review prostitution laws.

I'm glad about that but it confuses me about the Tories. Usually DC's policies are tailored for Mumsnet yet on this issue they appear to have a blind spot. I wonder why?

As for the MET muddled as always. Their second in command is against it yet the raids in Soho send a different message.

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I'm glad about that but it confuses me about the Tories. Usually DC's policies are tailored for Mumsnet yet on this issue they appear to have a blind spot. I wonder why?

As for the MET muddled as always. Their second in command is against it yet the raids in Soho send a different message.

Personally I think different aims to be honest..

 

I would say the raids in Soho is about the new development coming up and maybe wanting to remove the scene because of tourism with it being bang in the middle of London.

 

I think they realise from Pentameter 2 that there were not the wild accusations of trafficked women around and it is only 3-4 years ago all this was pushed so hard and got rejected, so why start it again.. Just would make no sense unless you have a Harriet Harman figure in charge who hates prostitution and I am sure that is why they are not going to review the prostitution laws again currently.

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I'm not so sure. Mary Honeyball is starting to get her support tights in a twist and working with Irish anti's. 

 

I think a fresh onslaught is on the cards. 

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The Guardian is on a role at the moment with a number of "anti" articles in a short space of time.

 

MPs, women's groups and EU officials say government should make buying sex an offence

 

 

She forgot to add church and religious groups to that list. And in Scotland at least it seems to be dominantly Labour MPs who support making it an offence.

 

But when are these people going to acknowledge the people best informed to advise on such laws are the sex workers themselves? There are tens of thousands of sex workers in the UK yet the only sex worker we seem to hear about or from in "anti" articles is Rachel Moran (who as Laura Lee pointed out is a paid front).

 

If sex work was as bad as they make it out to be then surely they would have a tonne of sex workers backing them up? Yet Rachel Moran is the best they can come up with.

 

I understand from the article Theresa May's trafficking bill doesn't include a clause to criminalize paying of sex outright? Well at least that's a relief.

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Harriet Harperman has already been told off by Baroness Stern and an official watchdog for misleading the public aboout pay gap statistics and rape conviction statistics.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8096761.stm

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7442785/Rape-conviction-rate-figures-misleading.html

 

I wonder if Labour win the election and launch a campaign to implement the Swedish model if we can trust her to be honest about statistics re sex work?

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Harriet Harperman has already been told off by Baroness Stern and an official watchdog for misleading the public aboout pay gap statistics and rape conviction statistics.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8096761.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7442785/Rape-conviction-rate-figures-misleading.html

I wonder if Labour win the election and launch a campaign to implement the Swedish model if we can trust her to be honest about statistics re sex work?

Don't be daft...but if she starts harping on about trafficked women, sexual slavery etc. our mantra needs to be, "That's already illegal!!!". Street prostitution is wholly illegal for all, and clients can be prosecuted if any WG is "forced, threatened, deceived or otherwise coerced into prostitution"; and they don't need to prove the client knew or even COULD have known. Plus of course trafficking itself is illegal, even if the woman is over 18 and coming willingly. As is running a brothel/escort agency - again even if the women are willing. If she says it's difficult to prove, the response should be, "Oh dear, are you having trouble finding that pesky evidence stuff?".

The ONLY situation where further legislation would be useable is where a client is paying a woman who is over 18 and the police cannot show that she's coerced in any way...any situation involving a victim, the client is already arrestable and any 3rd party is arrestable even if the woman is 30 and earning £500p/h. The only arguments left to any anti prostitution fems etc, would be moral and feminist arguments and that's got little chance of gaining any momentum. Only ridicule. The 2009 laws will be a thorn in their side in any new debate.

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The why is because it presumably sells newspapers to link the two, and it music to the ears of people like Harriet Harridan of course. I dont know if the campaign to make paid sex illegal is actually gaining ground or not but i am in no doubt if Harridan gets back in in 2015 she will resume her crusade to criminalise ALL punters.

 

However just as with her coercion law it will be designed to scare punters off punting rather than to nick punters as to nick indoor punters punting with Indies who arent breaking the law as it stands would take vast resources and of course the co-operation of the police. The police in many areas let already illegal street prostitution and brothels to operate so why they would start nicking indoor punters which would be harder work to catch i cant see happening. IMO such a law would scare some punters off though and understandably so.

 

no it doesnt. guardian sales are falling off a cliff.  So is the indy but the i is doing fairly well so costs are shared.

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Yes, a very good article and great to hear that there is someone out there who is interrogating the empirical evidence and research that is used in possible moves to change sex work policy. Because when you scratch the surface of those intended policies, they are actually based on a fair amount of fabrication and certainly don't seem to refer to the people that actually work in the industry. I'm sure we all know this, but it's just good there is someone out there who is prepared to assemble the evidence in this way : quite a brave woman I think.

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