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MrGladstone

Today Programme Weighs in...

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...7.56 this morning, Fiona McTaggart and a hesitant, stammering Dr Helen Self discussed new legislation which is due tomorrow.

The thrust of the legislation, as reported, is bizarre - it will be legal to pay for sex if the woman keeps the money, but illegal if it goes to a pimp, or if she has been trafficked.

The obvious difficulties came up in the discussion: how do you tell if someone is trafficked, does the legislation apply if the man honestly doesn't think there's a pimp or whatever ("she didn't look trafficked to me, guv"). The Swedish model was raised and dealt with.

I think I heard McTaggart utter the shibboleth - "no woman willingly goes into prostitution" - but it's early in the morning so I may have misheard. Dr Self got going later, and both agreed that it should be legal for more than one woman to work in a flat - a blindingly obvious point, and one worth campaigning on, I'd have thought.

It should be all at this address, when the BBC, er, gets it up.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7734000/7734774.stm

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I caught most of it - McTaggart also asserted that all women in prostitution earn poor money, are drug-addicted, and that most are pimped and started working whilst still children.

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I caught most of it - McTaggart also asserted that all women in prostitution earn poor money, are drug-addicted, and that most are pimped and started working whilst still children.

It's your bleeding lot that started this Vin, imagine the conversation!

Girl: That'll be £150 sir.

Punter: Sorry I'm leaving I think your pimped and I'll get done.

Pimp enters stage left:

Bleeding pay the woman or I'll take your goolies off!!

Punter pays and gets down to business.

Police enter stage right.

Hello hello hello, what's goin' on here then? This girls trafficked,

Turns to punter your nicked!

Punter is taken off to jail, in court, jailed, has all his worldly goods confiscated, loses his job, family and whole life.

Pimp and girl get paid £5000 compensation for loss of earnings per raid and retire back to ........ and claim UK benefits cos' they are part of the EU.

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So if I pay the owner of a massage parlour 10 for entry to their flat, is that a payment for prostitution?

If I then give the girl after spending time with me 35 pounds, she can keep the lot.

If she gives 15 of that to the owner of the premises for hire of the room, presumably that is ok

- all depends on how people speak about why they are paying sums of money over?

This will all make lots of money for others involved in soliciting - and the bar...

OR do they want to close down massage parlours and get women back on the street where they can be paid the lot directly

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Fiona McTaggart and a hesitant, stammering Dr Helen Self discussed new legislation which is due tomorrow.

Presumably the legislation is just due to be dicussed tomorrow, not come into effect?

"The government wants to make it a criminal offence to pay women for sex if they are being controlled for another person's gain. So it is fine to pay for sex if all the money goes to and stays with the woman. But if any of it goes to a pimp or drug dealer or if the woman has been trafficked to the UK that would be illegal. Fiona McTaggart, the MP for Slough was responsible for prostitution policy at the Home Office until 2006 and Dr Helen Self, author of Prostitution, Women and Misuse of Law, discuss whether such a system could work." BBC web-site

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"The government wants to make it a criminal offence to pay women for sex if they are being controlled for another person's gain. So it is fine to pay for sex if all the money goes to and stays with the woman. But if any of it goes to a pimp or drug dealer or if the woman has been trafficked to the UK that would be illegal. Fiona McTaggart, the MP for Slough was responsible for prostitution policy at the Home Office until 2006 and Dr Helen Self, author of Prostitution, Women and Misuse of Law, discuss whether such a system could work." BBC web-site

That's an interesting quote Biggus, I wonder if a chemist could be classed as a drug dealer?

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I think I heard McTaggart utter the shibboleth - "no woman willingly goes into prostitution" - but it's early in the morning so I may have misheard.

Yep. Just listened to the recording. Helen Self was disputing her assertion that "most" women are pimped victims and Mc Taggart came back at her with a very firm "Women don't choose to be prostitutes Helen". (Said in a kind of "I'm the headmistress so what I say goes" kind of tone).

Doncha just love people who know it all?

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...7.56 this morning, Fiona McTaggart and a hesitant, stammering Dr Helen Self discussed new legislation which is due tomorrow.

Huuh, I've never heard her talk before - wonder if she's always that inarticulate, if so it'd have been better if she had stayed at home 'cause this did nothing good for the cause. She has written a lot of good stuff though, eg :

History Repeating Itself: The Regulation of Prostitution and Trafficking

a comparison between three periods of British legislation on sexual offences,

concentrating on those relating to prostitution and trafficking.

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That's an interesting quote Biggus, I wonder if a chemist could be classed as a drug dealer?

There was an implication that all prostitutes have drug dealers. Surely it's not a legal requirement?

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There was an implication that all prostitutes have drug dealers. Surely it's not a legal requirement?

A good point and well made, it is possible I suppose, I shall investigate and report back.

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Just had a listen again myself. Dr Helen Self was indeed useless.

This is what Fiona McTaggart MP thinks of you, ladies:

"the women in prostitution live appalling lives, they have very low incomes, their pimps [?], most are pimped, most of them started being prostitutes whan they were children"

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Just had a listen again myself. Dr Helen Self was indeed useless.

This is what Fiona McTaggart MP thinks of you, ladies:

"the women in prostitution live appalling lives, they have very low incomes, their pimps [?], most are pimped, most of them started being prostitutes whan they were children"

Yes, McTaggart is articulate, in the same way that Goebels was; she does appear to have become the criminalisation brigade's propagandist.

If you're going to tell a lie, make it a big lie, as the public will believe them far more easily than little ones.

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Presumably the legislation is just due to be dicussed tomorrow, not come into effect?

"The government wants to make it a criminal offence to pay women for sex if they are being controlled for another person's gain. So it is fine to pay for sex if all the money goes to and stays with the woman. But if any of it goes to a pimp or drug dealer or if the woman has been trafficked to the UK that would be illegal. Fiona McTaggart, the MP for Slough was responsible for prostitution policy at the Home Office until 2006 and Dr Helen Self, author of Prostitution, Women and Misuse of Law, discuss whether such a system could work." BBC web-site

I see this will not affect massage parlours that much. You pay the reception for the room. Assuming when you pay the WG, she keeps all the dosh - (which I believe they do), you should be in the clear - especially with the larger more established parlours like in Manchester. I would love to hear a parlour owners viewpoint on this. Surely it won't affect business that much?

O

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If you're going to tell a lie, make it a big lie, as the public will believe them far more easily than little ones.

...and repeat it over and over.

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I see this will not affect massage parlours that much. You pay the reception for the room. Assuming when you pay the WG, she keeps all the dosh - (which I believe they do), you should be in the clear - especially with the larger more established parlours like in Manchester. I would love to hear a parlour owners viewpoint on this. Surely it won't affect business that much?

O

I charge the girls for the rent of the room every half hour or hour, whatever they do in there as long as they play safe is their business, if a client gives them forty pounds or a thousand pounds I still take the same rent. It works well but I don't know exactly where I stand if this new proposal ever went through. I think the police have enough power to close any parlour at any time. This new proposal is ludicrous and surely impossible to enforce. The police have easy access to the parlours in my town because we advertise and operate openly and the slightest whiff of trafficked girls then the parlour involved is closed immediately. If we are forced to go underground this would be an open ticket for the traffickers. Just legalise the damn business and let us get on with it.

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Here are a couple of points that have not been mentioned Many WG have partners or even husbands where will they fit in as a share of the money no doubt goes into the family coffers.

The other thing most Escorts pay tax on their earnings does this make the revenue and HMG pimps, food for thought :(

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I see this will not affect massage parlours that much. You pay the reception for the room. Assuming when you pay the WG, she keeps all the dosh - (which I believe they do), you should be in the clear - especially with the larger more established parlours like in Manchester. I would love to hear a parlour owners viewpoint on this. Surely it won't affect business that much?

O

:(

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The other thing most Escorts pay tax on their earnings does this make the revenue and HMG pimps, food for thought :(

That's a nice try, but sadly no cigar, read all about it.

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:(

Alright,

To put it another way. The parlour is acting like a 'per' hour or 'per' half hour hotel. You pay the parlour for time in the room, not for time with the WG.

Then you pay the WG, all the agreed fee. She keeps it ALL. What you and the WG do in the room should have nothing to do with the parlour ('hotel') owner ;)

As far the Mr/Mrs Parlour owner are concerned, the most they are doing is "massage" services.

Now see who tests this in the courts

O

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