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Chloe Kisses

Men!…wake Up Please

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We SHOULD all be aware by now of the decision by Amnesty International regarding their stance on prostitution.


 


What I want to know is why when I read the that twitter feed are the only men on there the anti men??? I have see ONE positive comment on our side by a man. Come on guys ffs wake up…you are all over the internet searching for escorts to book but you are not all over twitter defending us or yourselves??


 


Punters need to have their say..they need to show that they are a normal intelligent bunch of guys and not the neandathol sadists that these antis are attempting to make you out to be. Reasonable and intelligent argument is the best way to show you are not the monsters you are being made out to be. Please dont come on here and say its for security reasons, you dont want the wife to find out, you dont want to leave a digital footprint as you manage to get on punternet and adult work just fine. 


 


I have to say I am greatly disappointed at the lack of real punter response on that feed. Its all women defending amnestys decision. 


 


I know some  say that if punting were made illegal you would just stop. Thats fair enough but in stopping your lives would be greatly reduced on the contentment front. I just dont know why more guys are not speaking up at these anti s and womens libbers trying to ruin our industry. You are already all over half the sex forums and directories out there.


 


Just by going on there and tweeting to Amnesty you would be declaring your support and thanks for there decision. You may think it won't make any difference but it will. If all they hear is anti bullys shouting down their decision they may feel they have made a big mistake. Join in…show them they were right.


 


 


Why is this ,please can a guy give me an honest answer?


Edited by Chloe Kisses
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Well said Chloe.  I do not use twitter myself so have not seen it but you are right...... we women are only half the business..... men need to speak up too.

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Men speaking out in favour of prostitution will never be construed as "reasoned and intelligent" argument, but as blatant self-interest, and the guys are right not to "blow their cover".

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Oops, for some reason I wasn't allowed to edit my own post. I forgot to add, any man defending his wish to continue to be allowed to pay for sex can so easily be dismissed in Mandy Rice Davies' immortal words: "He would, wouldn't he."

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Oops, for some reason I wasn't allowed to edit my own post. I forgot to add, any man defending his wish to continue to be allowed to pay for sex can so easily be dismissed in Mandy Rice Davies' immortal words: "He would, wouldn't he."

 

I think you make a good point there, but unfortunately seen from the mindset of an anti, a female sexworker who states that many of her clients are pleasant, respectful etc. will receive a similarly scornful reception whether what is being stated by the escort is true or not.

 

My hunch is that the issue that makes the antis squirm more than anything else, and an issue which they avoid discussing as far as possible is paid sex provided by men (for men).  I know that subject is generally speaking off topic as far as PN is concerned, but I've rarely heard antis demanding a ban on male prostitution citing claims of trafficking etc.  That imo betrays a very unequal stance vis a vis the rights of men and women to work as escorts, and an argument that could be exploited to expose the shallowness of the arguments put forward by the antis.

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Yes, strangely one never seems to see well-publicised reports of male brothels getting closed down. Of course any legislation forbidding paying for sex will also include male brothels/masseurs/escorts. In terms of sheer numbers though, I suspect female sex workers far outnumber male providers.

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Oops, for some reason I wasn't allowed to edit my own post. I forgot to add, any man defending his wish to continue to be allowed to pay for sex can so easily be dismissed in Mandy Rice Davies' immortal words: "He would, wouldn't he."

Well they use the same argument against us, that its self interest or that we dont know what we are saying. All the more reason for intelligent comments from the men and from us. Should we be silenced simply because they think up ways to attempt to invalidate our reasoning? I dont think so. Since when do people have their voices silenced by others with such a tiny statement.

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We should be quiet and drown in the cacophony of their voices simply because they find ways to put us down. Surely all the more reason why the men should speak up also..strength in numbers. 

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One can debate it until the cows come home, but no Government wants to be the one to really engage in the debate, do the sensible thing and legalise regulated brothels etc. For a time it looked as though MPs like Tony Banks and a few others were going to have a rational discussion, but they got their leash pulled at the time and slunk away, not wanting to jeopardise their careers.

 

For the ordinary punter to step out of the shadows and stand by his behaviour publicly would mean he'll risk his marriage and his job in order to save his hobby. I, for one, will certainly not hold my breath and expect clients to form a "pro" pressure group. :(

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Usual hypocracy. The greater social problem is drug abuse. But governments peddle softly softly policies and urge police to step back where drugs are for personal use. But we punters are devils incarnate and must be destroyed.

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There are lots of men out there that visit girls/swing/party and so on that are not married and are up totally up front about their sexual preferences.  I don't see why punters shouldn't speak out.  We all know that by making things more open it would be easier to keep the girls safe, lower the risks of trafficking and so on, so when you boys are walking away from that lone exposed woman satisfied after a punt why not think on how much better it would be all round if things were different and speak up for them.  I'm with Chloe on this one big style.

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There are lots of men out there that visit girls/swing/party and so on that are not married and are up totally up front about their sexual preferences.  I don't see why punters shouldn't speak out.  We all know that by making things more open it would be easier to keep the girls safe, lower the risks of trafficking and so on, so when you boys are walking away from that lone exposed woman satisfied after a punt why not think on how much better it would be all round if things were different and speak up for them.  I'm with Chloe on this one big style.

You're absolutely right, of course, Holly, but why do you think all the men on this board are hiding behind their anonymity/handles? How many do you think would post on here if they had to do it under their real names and locations? In an ideal world our clients would feel fine about speaking up, but we all know we don't live in an ideal world, and we all have to protect the life we've managed to build.

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For the ordinary punter to step out of the shadows and stand by his behaviour publicly would mean he'll risk his marriage and his job in order to save his hobby. I, for one, will certainly not hold my breath and expect clients to form a "pro" pressure group. :(

This is absolutely not so. They can, as we often do, use their punting persona or just set up a totally random account to speak up. Most escorts do so anonymously…less anonymous though than a punter using a fake name on something such as twitter. I wasnt asking them to set up a pro pressure group. Just to air their opinion and support when things like this happen as they dont happen often. A drop is simply a drop but put enough drops together and you have a water cannon  ;)

 

How are they then risking their marriages? If thats the case then they wouldnt dare be on aw or punternet or ukp or anywhere else punting related. Twitter isn't even a punting arena..its a social media x

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You're absolutely right, of course, Holly, but why do you think all the men on this board are hiding behind their anonymity/handles? How many do you think would post on here if they had to do it under their real names and locations? In an ideal world our clients would feel fine about speaking up, but we all know we don't live in an ideal world, and we all have to protect the life we've managed to build.

Again. Who said anything about real names. The thread wasnt asking guys to form pressure groups and do public sit ins. It was asking them to sign up to twitter, under a fake name/punting name,  is fine. Amenesty will see the support it has and how many people are happy with their decision instead of just the antis who by the way…half the time are signed up on there under anonymous names x

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Again. Who said anything about real names. The thread wasnt asking guys to form pressure groups and do public sit ins. It was asking them to sign up to twitter, under a fake name/punting name,  is fine. Amenesty will see the support it has and how many people are happy with their decision instead of just the antis who by the way…half the time are signed up on there under anonymous names x

Yep, like "support" using fake names will be taken seriously. Hiding behind a false identity will be taken as a sign that the guys know full well that their behaviour is wrong and damaging. It'll simply be more power to the mumsnet/Andrea Dworkin readers' elbow.

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Yep, like "support" using fake names will be taken seriously. Hiding behind a false identity will be taken as a sign that the guys know full well that their behaviour is wrong and damaging. It'll simply be more power to the mumsnet/Andrea Dworkin readers' elbow.

I disagree. Lets face it…how many members of mums net are registered under their names? Zero! Despite this Amnesty did a question and answer time on there. They answered the questions of people using fake names, they took their concerned seriously. Amnesty would understand punters using fake names just as much as us escorts and those mums netters. You are presuming that we will be taken less seriously than other anonymous folk..why?

 

plus again..most of the antis I have seen on twitter have fake anonymous usernames on there. Why would one group be taken less seriously than another x

Edited by Chloe Kisses
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Men speaking out in favour of prostitution will never be construed as "reasoned and intelligent" argument, but as blatant self-interest, and the guys are right not to "blow their cover".

That a very good point.You could put out the best argument backed by research,articles etc and it would still be ignored  for those very reasons.

 

I think you make a good point there, but unfortunately seen from the mindset of an anti, a female sexworker who states that many of her clients are pleasant, respectful etc. will receive a similarly scornful reception whether what is being stated by the escort is true or not.

 

My hunch is that the issue that makes the antis squirm more than anything else, and an issue which they avoid discussing as far as possible is paid sex provided by men (for men).  I know that subject is generally speaking off topic as far as PN is concerned, but I've rarely heard antis demanding a ban on male prostitution citing claims of trafficking etc.  That imo betrays a very unequal stance vis a vis the rights of men and women to work as escorts, and an argument that could be exploited to expose the shallowness of the arguments put forward by the antis.

I have never seen any arguments of that sort.Its almost like male prostitution doesnt exist,in their eyes at least.I don't think they see the inherrent sexism in this general chain of thought,,that men cannot be forced or co oerced,whereas women can and men can chose this work,whereas the "weak and fragile" nature of women cannot allow them to

 

This is absolutely not so. They can, as we often do, use their punting persona or just set up a totally random account to speak up. Most escorts do so anonymously…less anonymous though than a punter using a fake name on something such as twitter. I wasnt asking them to set up a pro pressure group. Just to air their opinion and support when things like this happen as they dont happen often. A drop is simply a drop but put enough drops together and you have a water cannon  ;)

 

How are they then risking their marriages? If thats the case then they wouldnt dare be on aw or punternet or ukp or anywhere else punting related. Twitter isn't even a punting arena..its a social media x

As we see frequently,the if you feel so strongly about it why are you using a false name argument,even though they are doing the same themselves.With people like that,a logical discussion,argument,doesnt come into it.If you disagree with them you are dismissed as a troll otherwise youd use your real name.

Then look at the hastle Laura Lee had in the transcripts of her statement about giving her real name.Was it important to her actual statements,No.But until she had given it they didnt seem like they were going to move on at all

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I disagree. Lets face it…how many members of mums net are registered under their names? Zero! Despite this Amnesty did a question and answer time on there. They answered the questions of people using fake names, they took their concerned seriously. Amnesty would understand punters using fake names just as much as us escorts and those mums netters. You are presuming that we will be taken less seriously than other anonymous folk..why?

 

plus again..most of the antis I have seen on twitter have fake anonymous usernames on there. Why would one group be taken less seriously than another x

You are making a very valid point,and if you were having a discussion with a reasonable,rational group of people then it wouldnt make a difference.These people however,are not discussing or willing to debate,they don't care what arguments are put forward,they are not going to change their ideas/beliefs no matter what is said.Its like the proverbial head and brick wall

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You are making a very valid point,and if you were having a discussion with a reasonable,rational group of people then it wouldnt make a difference.These people however,are not discussing or willing to debate,they don't care what arguments are put forward,they are not going to change their ideas/beliefs no matter what is said.Its like the proverbial head and brick wall

Its always going to be a brick wall with the antis. Even if we used our real names, it would make no difference. If you stood up there with proof that trafficking is not confined to prostitution they would still shout you down, they are not really about the trafficking, they are about anti prostitution and I would bet my left foot even if all trafficking was abolished they would still be protesting..trafficking is simply the emotive vehicle they use to roll in on. Its their battering ram so to speak.

 

I wasnt initially posting about punters arguing with the antis though, I was just asking why they dont show their support to amnesty for their decision and one of the most anonymous and quickest way to do that is via a social media such as twitter.

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Its always going to be a brick wall with the antis. Even if we used our real names, it would make no difference. If you stood up there with proof that trafficking is not confined to prostitution they would still shout you down, they are not really about the trafficking, they are about anti prostitution and I would bet my left foot even if all trafficking was abolished they would still be protesting..trafficking is simply the emotive vehicle they use to roll in on. Its their battering ram so to speak.

 

I wasnt initially posting about punters arguing with the antis though, I was just asking why they dont show their support to amnesty for their decision and one of the most anonymous and quickest way to do that is via a social media such as twitter.

Exactly.Human trafficking appears in many different industries yet you rarely see them mentioned.Also,you have to ask how making the purchase of sex illegal would affect that in any way as i don't see it affecting the trade in the massive way they think it will as there seems to be a very high percentage of people,and including punters who dont know that it is currently legal,It is purely an attack on prostitution by people who for whatever reasons find it immoral.

Also,any move to affect/prevent trafficking is doomed to failure without the added support and protection for the victims within their home countries.Until that happens they are all just flapping gums.~

As for the twitter bit.I think whats stopping people is the,you leave a commment in support and you're pretty much guarenteed some sort of snide reply.You can either ignore it,then youre comment becomes a see,it was a troll etc or you run the risk of getting drawn into a pointless online argument

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You are making a very valid point,and if you were having a discussion with a reasonable,rational group of people then it wouldnt make a difference.These people however,are not discussing or willing to debate,they don't care what arguments are put forward,they are not going to change their ideas/beliefs no matter what is said.Its like the proverbial head and brick wall

 

"Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill-opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired…" Jonathan Swift

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You are making a very valid point,and if you were having a discussion with a reasonable,rational group of people then it wouldnt make a difference.These people however,are not discussing or willing to debate,they don't care what arguments are put forward,they are not going to change their ideas/beliefs no matter what is said.Its like the proverbial head and brick wall

 

Even if these people will never change their ideas as a result of rational arguments put forward by members of our community, others who are simply following the argument as observers may well develop their opinions based on what they observe in the debate. So it is not necessarily pointless making our contribution to the debate, especially if some of these as yet undecided third party observers have any influence on policy development, either in AI or in the wider world.

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There is no point in getting involved in a discussion with any of the Feminazis or the religious loons who vent on these issues.

 

They're fascists with a psychopathic desire to judge and dictate the behaviour of others.

 

As has been rightly pointed out, nothing will change their minds (I've tried before on newspaper websites and other online forums) and it can attract unwanted attention and cyber-stalking.

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All you have to do is produce a list of all the high-achieving men through history who are known to have paid for sex. The actors, artists, musicians, politicians, sportsmen and leaders of industry who have punted.

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