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Alwayshoping

Prostitution On Woman's Hour

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Interesting programme today. Former prostitutes were interviewed who all expressed their strongly held views that clients should be criminalised and women decriminalised. Programme mostly about vulnerable women who've been forced into it or even kidnapped to Ireland under outrageous threats if they tried to escape. They certainly painted a very bleak picture of the whole scene.

But see also, from link on Woman's Hour website, to Rachel Moran's Open Letter to the so called 'good' punter. She detests and despises them most of all! So thinking you're a 'nice' man who actually 'cares' about the women you see will cut no ice with her. (She was interviewed.)

 

Tomorrow WGs from Glasgow are to be giving their reasons why they do not want their clients criminalised.

 

The presenter of the programme today is asking for any men who use prostitutes to get in touch. They seem to be having difficulty finding any. So a great chance for any articulate punter who'd like the nation to hear him being interviewed on the BBC maybe? Not me... I'm married!

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Last week they had Gavin Shuker the Labour MP and former Pentecostal minister on. He was talking about his cross-party committee which came out in favour of the Swedish model in Britain. He said that lots of WGs start when they are underage. What people like him try to do is to say that drug addicts are typical of WGs which is not true. That is not the reality of prostitution any more than the reality of domestic work is a woman trafficked into the country forced to work all hours and beaten.

 

Someone on the programme said that lots of WGs have been killed in Holland. From what I have read this is not true.

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This programme made me cry. Made me cry for the women stuck in that situations described and all that the speakers had gone through, made me cry for abuses long before they became prostitutes(they were already vulnerable), made me cry for the way in which they were misleading in their statements about decriminalising the prostitutes and prostitution.

 

Prostitution is already decriminalised, it's only street work prostitution which is illegal.

 

Brothels, pimps, trafficking is all illegal, as is beating and assaulting others.

Edited by Strawberry
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I

But see also, from link on Woman's Hour website, to Rachel Moran's Open Letter to the so called 'good' punter. She detests and despises them most of all! So thinking you're a 'nice' man who actually 'cares' about the women you see will cut no ice with her. (She was interviewed.)

 

 

 

Here it is:

 

http://theprostitutionexperience.com/

 

Oh dear, oh dear...

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Ever since Laura Lee gave evidence to the Irish pariament over the proposed new law a favourite new stat for the antis is 127 have been murdered in Holland. But what they are missing out is they were all killed before legalisation!

 

 

He said that lots of WGs start when they are underage

 

This wouldn't be based on the (dubunked over and over) "stat" about "75% start as children" would it? And besides, if there are underage victims out there it isn't the fault of adults buying and selling sex with other adults, it's the fault of pedophiles. Sexual contact or attempted sexual contact with the underaged is already illegal. Enforce that law.

 

It also annoys me a little when antis say over and over "prostitutes should be decriminalised" without giving any explanation of what the current laws are. Anyone listening to that who didn't know the current law (I imagine most everyday Joes and Janes don't) would end up thinking it was currently legal to buy sex yet illegal to sell it outright. Rhoda Grant used to do this a lot.

 

And I dread to think what Qs a punter would be asked by them. I guess it would be a bit like being questioned by the bumsnet lot- a punter is currently being "interviewed" by them at the moment in one of their numerous threads about sexwork (towards the bottom of the thread)-

 

mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a1980603-Amnesty-International-says-laws-against-buying-sex-breach-mens-human-rights

Edited by YourSlave

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As for Rachel Moran. Many are in doubt if all that happened or if she is just a (well paid) all-out liar.

 

In Dubin the sex worker community is small and they all know and look out for each other, yet so far NOONE is able to remember this Rachel Moran. One woman (a woman who really was a sexworker) who worked on the streets stood on the same street Moran claims to have stood on and never saw her once.

 

http://lauraslifeandthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/how-do-you-solve-problem-like-ruhama.html

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"As for Rachel Moran, many are in doubt if all that happened or if she is just a (well paid) all-out liar."

 

 

Interesting! It never even occurred to me it might not all be true.

Edited by Alwayshoping

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But see also, from link on Woman's Hour website, to Rachel Moran's Open Letter to the so called 'good' punter. She detests and despises them most of all! So thinking you're a 'nice' man who actually 'cares' about the women you see will cut no ice with her.

 !

A telepathist. How does she know they think this? However they behave, very few punters describe themselves as "good" or "nice." (Being nice would be giving the SP the money and not expecting anything back.)

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She mentions an apartment in Limerick, from which she worked. Her blog reads more real to me than "Belle du Jour's".

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And I dread to think what Qs a punter would be asked by them. I guess it would be a bit like being questioned by the bumsnet lot- a punter is currently being "interviewed" by them at the moment in one of their numerous threads about sexwork (towards the bottom of the thread)-

 

mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a1980603-Amnesty-International-says-laws-against-buying-sex-breach-mens-human-rights

 

Fucking hell! I've just looked through it. The (disabled) punter taking on the massed armies of Mumsnet is a hero. But they really are absolutely impervious,

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Rachel Moran? Isn't that the women who bangs on about her awful life as a street worker yet the real street workers who were working the same area as she claims at the same time dont recognise her and all say they had never seen her there? The antis believe that everything the street workers say right, thats where the antis get their data right, then this must also be true..right. x

Edited by Chloe Kisses

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Surely if a lady did not want to be a companion she wouldn't be. These poor girls who are forced are not companions in the real sense but people who deserve help and support. They are nothing to do with professional ladies. So why are the two things linked.

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Fucking hell! I've just looked through it. The (disabled) punter taking on the massed armies of Mumsnet is a hero. But they really are absolutely impervious,

 

I have joined the ranks, but -- like you say -- I won't hold my breath while waiting for them to open their minds.  Because they don't want to, that is why.  As the saying goes "There's no worse deaf man than the man who doesn't want to listen."

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One woman (a woman who really was a sexworker) who worked on the streets stood on the same street Moran claims to have stood on and never saw her once.

I forgot to mention this was over a 2 year period. In 2 years the woman who really was a worker on a specific street never saw Moran once.

 

It is Interesting. If someone were to doubt someone who really is/was a real sex worker- say Laura Lee for example- I'm sure Laura Lee would have a large army of workers/clients who could vouch for her. But not one can vouch for Moran.

 

The bumsnet lot don't even have any real arguments against sex work, all they do is resort to ad-hominem personal insults along with making wild allegations of rape/abuse/pimping.

 

@Malmos if you aren't already banned I expect you will be banned soon. Bumsnet have a reputation for banning people who have political opinions rad-fems generally don't agree with (especially if the poster is male).

Edited by YourSlave

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http://theprostitutionexperience.com/?p=193

 

Has anyone looked through the comments on this page?

 

There is a comment by "man" who says

 

Women that sell their bodies have no right to bitch about how I treat them.

They are my property for the time they belong to me, and I will use them as I see fit.

 

Moran's response is this

 

I’m approving this comment as evidence of the sort of scum women in prostitution have to deal with every day.

 

And there's a comment by "punter" who posts this;

 

But if a girl today does the same thing I get irritated one tight slap fixes it. I don’t really mind if she has been kidnapped , tricked , trafficked.

 

 

"man" and "punter". Really??

 

Am I the only one thinking Rachel has dishonestly typed those in herself trying to make it look like they have come from genuine clients?

 

I don't trust a word that woman says or posts.

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@Malmos if you aren't already banned I expect you will be banned soon. Bumsnet have a reputation for banning people who have political opinions rad-fems generally don't agree with (especially if the poster is male).

 

Who cares?  The thread has been closed because it has reached the 1000 messages threshold, hence I have no more use for my profile there.  But before the thread was closed, I have had the satisfaction of seeing some rad-fems go berserk. And other users showing the weakness of their arguments. When people start calling you names, you know that you have hit the spot ;-)

 

I am happy to be here again, though.

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I found it interesting how they had a blind spot for my argument that women have the right to sell sex.  They always eluded this point and never attacked it.  It never registered in their minds that if women have the right to sell sex then men must be allowed to buy it, otherwise the exchange couldn't possibly work.

 

My last comment, where I dismantled the argument of a so-called "white knight", has been deleted.  There were no personal attacks from my side, but some very politically-incorrect truths.

Edited by Malmostoso
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So terrible to hear about the experiences of these women in Ireland.  I guess we are talking real life and not some fantasist with good ending stories some book editors would be pleased to publish.

 

If this happens in this part of the world, we can only imagine what happens in some God forgotten country.

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it strikes me that the most vociferous oponents of prostitution on Mumsnet are the ones that seemingly have all day to sit at their computers while their parners are out earning a living.

 

Oh wait a minute -  they put out occasionally to keep their parnters happy in exchange for a roof over their heads plus all the trappings of a nice lifestyle.

 

I think the ladies on this site have more integrity and honesty.

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Ever since Laura Lee gave evidence to the Irish pariament over the proposed new law a favourite new stat for the antis is 127 have been murdered in Holland. But what they are missing out is they were all killed before legalisation!

I've been trying to find out about this 127 figure. I found one site that said this is the number of sex workers murdered in the past 30 years. However, prostitution hasn't been legal in Holland for 30 years, has it? So if you had a graph of how many were murdered year by year over the past 30 years, it could show that after the year that it was decriminalized there was a big drop.

 

Something presenter Jane Garvey said today (Tuesday) on Woman's Hour is statistics can prove anything. That's rubbish though. The statistics show that we are right. Statistics need to be challenged and the truth will emerge. We can't be like discredited MP Dennis MacShane who said that there were 4000 sex slaves in Britain and when it was shown to be a completely made up number he started talking about a 'futile war of statistics'. 

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As for Rachel Moran. Many are in doubt if all that happened or if she is just a (well paid) all-out liar.

 

In Dubin the sex worker community is small and they all know and look out for each other, yet so far NOONE is able to remember this Rachel Moran. One woman (a woman who really was a sexworker) who worked on the streets stood on the same street Moran claims to have stood on and never saw her once.

 

http://lauraslifeandthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/how-do-you-solve-problem-like-ruhama.html

There was a Dutch woman who wrote a book about her experiences and was shown to have made it all up.

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If Rachel Moran is a fraud she certainly isn't the first.

 

http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/dutch-threat/

 

Not that long ago an alleged "survivor" by the name of Patricia Perquin appeared in Netherlands with shock stories including being forced to service up to 31 clients per day. Many politicians lapped all her stories up and some were actually moved to start supporting criminalization.

 

But then many real sex workers wanted to know where she worked to get so many clients (some only got 4 clients a day and that was a "good" day) then it emerged none of the real sex workers had ever heard of Patricia Perquin (a bit like how noone can vouch for Rachel Moran). Finally the truth came out- Patricia Perquin was a fraud, she was never a sexworker and all her tales were works of fiction. In real life she is a radical feminist by the name of Valerie Lempereur.

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