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Max Gentle

Strippers Are Not The Problem

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Thanks. I was just going to write a comment, but they closed the comments down before I could.

I wanted to say two things on this "objectification" business:

1) What exactly is the problem? If I objectify women, then this is something that happens inside my head, and the only victim of it is me, as it leaves me with a limited and rather unsatisfactory vision of a part of the world.

2) I don't think it happens. And, oddly enough, the raunchier the show, the harder it is to objectify the dancers. If a woman is sitting a few inches in front of me, with her legs wide open, exposing her pussy and playing with it, and looking me straight in the eye, it is quite simply impossible to objectify her. She is all too unignorably present as an individual.

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Financial exploitation by club owners was the most common complaint and women described having to pay high fees (to work in the club) and being unfairly fined. It is here that change is needed.

I have never been to a strip/lap dancing club but I would go if there was one set up by the women themselves. There's nothing wrong with erotic dancing but I would prefer it if the women kept the profits and made the rules for themselves. I'm not entirely happy with helping a wealthy man become even wealthier, although I realize that in many areas of live we will be doing that.

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I have never been to a strip/lap dancing club but I would go if there was one set up by the women themselves. There's nothing wrong with erotic dancing but I would prefer it if the women kept the profits and made the rules for themselves. I'm not entirely happy with helping a wealthy man become even wealthier, although I realize that in many areas of live we will be doing that.

It wasn't so long ago that many pubs had strippers on at lunchtime (a great way to postpone the afternoon hours of work!!) and most times the ladies came round with a pint pot collecting before they danced. I assume the landlord made his cash from the increased booze sold and the ladies made their from the collection.

 

"Those were the days!"

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"Those were the days!"

They still are the days at the Victoria in Hays.

 

I am not a big fan of strip clubs, but I am glad they exist.  I wish well meaning people would chase real problems like modern slavery, FGM, gun crime, poverty, and so on.

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They still are the days at the Victoria in Hays.

 

I am not a big fan of strip clubs, but I am glad they exist.  I wish well meaning people would chase real problems like modern slavery, FGM, gun crime, poverty, and so on.

Would that have been the Pear Tree in Hayes Middlesex about 30 years ago?

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It wasn't so long ago that many pubs had strippers on at lunchtime (a great way to postpone the afternoon hours of work!!) and most times the ladies came round with a pint pot collecting before they danced. I assume the landlord made his cash from the increased booze sold and the ladies made their from the collection.

 

"Those were the days!"

The ladies normally pay a fee per shift.It's a fraction of what the clubs charge though.

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I could be wrong here, and am sure someone will put me right if I am :)

 

If a woman chooses to prostitute herself, or dance in a club provocatively, she is openly encouraging the man to objectify her sexually, and because she is taking a payment for it that makes her the object of his lust by a sort of proxy.  It's encouraged objectivity, warmly welcomed by the lady, and makes the man the 'victim' here and not the woman.

 

I know what I mean............

 

If a woman goes to work and gets stared at by male colleagues to the point where she is uncomfortable because she is not inviting it then she is being made a sex object unwillingly.  Surely here lies the difference?  if a woman works in a lap dancing club she is there of her own free will and wants the attention?

 

I do think that lap dancers are sex workers though.. no matter how much they protest. It's just another genre of sex work, like domination...etc etc..

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I understand just what Sarah is getting at and, for once, I agree with her :)

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I could be wrong here, and am sure someone will put me right if I am :)

 

If a woman chooses to prostitute herself, or dance in a club provocatively, she is openly encouraging the man to objectify her sexually, and because she is taking a payment for it that makes her the object of his lust by a sort of proxy.  It's encouraged objectivity, warmly welcomed by the lady, and makes the man the 'victim' here and not the woman.

 

I know what I mean............

 

If a woman goes to work and gets stared at by male colleagues to the point where she is uncomfortable because she is not inviting it then she is being made a sex object unwillingly.  Surely here lies the difference?  if a woman works in a lap dancing club she is there of her own free will and wants the attention?

 

I do think that lap dancers are sex workers though.. no matter how much they protest. It's just another genre of sex work, like domination...etc etc..

 

Excellent post. I think you've nailed two issues there. "Encouraged objectivity" or objectivization is a lovely phrase. 

Re your comparison with the woman at work...I remember years back reading an interview with an actress who was talking about a nude scene she was doing. It was fairly explicit for mainstream cinema and involved cunnilingus. She said she had no problems with that when she was in her role, but that she did feel uncomfortable on one occasion between takes when she was in some sort of dressing-gown and she saw one of the crew trying to squint down it at her breasts.

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I think the argument is that if sex workers 'allow' men to ogle them and see women as sexual objects we are ruining it for the rest of women. 

 

Of course this feminist/anti men stance presumes that men can not tell the difference between watching a woman strip and leering or shouting get your tits out at some poor women passing by him in the street.

 

As am escort I use photos of my tits and legs to grab attention and get business which id of course fine, I'm quite aware that men chose me because of my tits (among other things I hope!) but in the non sex workplace I would be furious if a colleague drew attention to them! 

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