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punter992005

Good god they've finally shocked me

29 posts in this topic

The hutzpah of these people makes me want to scream.....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2760391/Sex-slave-sold-for-3k-on-Londons-Oxford-Street.html

A horrible story.

Until you do a quick google search on the name of the trafficker.....and realise that this operation (rotunda) was started in December 2004....and concluded after four months....which is four and half fucking years ago, and before we won the olympics, and this means it has nothing to do with traffickers flooding the east end with hookers for the olympic workers. Then you see the 16 year old girl was ALSO the handiwork of these Albanian pimps. So their entire story pre-dates the olympics and relates what 5 Albanians did. Just 5. Then they have to bring up the 4000 trafficked women shite again.

I've written a comment on the Sun's website......I've dared them to print it. Motherfu**ers. Liars and deceivers and cheats and suckers of Satan's cock each and every one of them. Tell me how to think Ms Harman. Tell Me.

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The hutzpah of these people makes me want to scream.....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2760391/Sex-slave-sold-for-3k-on-Londons-Oxford-Street.html

A horrible story.

Until you do a quick google search on the name of the trafficker.....and realise that this operation (rotunda) was started in December 2004....and concluded after four months....which is four and half fucking years ago, and before we won the olympics, and this means it has nothing to do with traffickers flooding the east end with hookers for the olympic workers. Then you see the 16 year old girl was ALSO the handiwork of these Albanian pimps. So their entire story pre-dates the olympics and relates what 5 Albanians did. Just 5. Then they have to bring up the 4000 trafficked women shite again.

I've written a comment on the Sun's website......I've dared them to print it. Motherfu**ers. Liars and deceivers and cheats and suckers of Satan's cock each and every one of them. Tell me how to think Ms Harman. Tell Me.

Having just read the story it is good to hear when people forced to be prostitutes are rescued or escape, and I am always glad to hear of it.

I read the story in a bit more depth and the 4000 figure for girls trafficked into prostitution does not seem so unreal to me now :D. yes it probably is an exageration but looking at how the Sun phrased it I can believe it. They said "4,000 women were trafficked into the UK for prostitution.Some came willingly, but others were tricked here with the promise of jobs". This does not seem unreasonable to me with the number of thai, chinese, brazillian and EE girls who come here every year knowing what they will be doing and coming here specifically to do it. I have to say this is the first tabloid article that admits that not all "trafficked" prostitutes are doing so against their own free will. You never know they might actually split the trafficking away from the enforced prostitution, but hell will probably freeze over before that happens. I think that by tieing trafficking and enforced prostitution together it misses out the unfortunate British girls who are not trafficked and yet are still forced to be prostitutes, by placing all the emphasis on foreign girls. Surely they deserve at least an equal amount of police resources.

Ok so the Sun plays fast nd loose with the facts, but I still think it is better that stories like this are published in the wider press rather than being ignored, no matter how much I hate comics like the Sun for ruining people's lives.

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I'm with the original poster on this one...

The Sun has deliberately published this story as though it was a current news item and that this occurred recently, when in fact the people involved were jailed back in Dec 2005 for this offence, which is 4 years ago !

If the Sun has to go back 4 years to find a story on trafficking it gives no support to the argument that trafficking is a serious problem which demands all the attention it is currently getting.

If people knew the Sun has had to resurrected this story from 4 years ago, just to make a point, they will start to lose faith in all newspapers account of the true extent of trafficking in this country, thus belittling what is a serious offence

The Sun should be acting responsibly and their reporters working on tracking down current victims of traffickers rather than reporting on a case where the traffickers have already been caught and have spent the last 4 years in prison.

Pure sensationalism from the Sun and all done to fool the general public.

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Pure sensationalism from the Sun and all done to fool the general public.

The word "ostrich" comes to mind. Yes, The Sun will manipulate anything for any reason it deems appropriate and agreed, the standard of journalistic probity here is about what you would expect from that particular institution BUT facts are facts and, as a punter, I fail to see how this story, regardless of timing, can fail to send a shiver down your spine and make you on at least some level re-examine your behaviour with regard to punting.

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I'm with the original poster on this one...

The Sun has deliberately published this story as though it was a current news item and that this occurred recently, when in fact the people involved were jailed back in Dec 2005 for this offence, which is 4 years ago !

If the Sun has to go back 4 years to find a story on trafficking it gives no support to the argument that trafficking is a serious problem which demands all the attention it is currently getting.

If people knew the Sun has had to resurrected this story from 4 years ago, just to make a point, they will start to lose faith in all newspapers account of the true extent of trafficking in this country, thus belittling what is a serious offence

The Sun should be acting responsibly and their reporters working on tracking down current victims of traffickers rather than reporting on a case where the traffickers have already been caught and have spent the last 4 years in prison.

Pure sensationalism from the Sun and all done to fool the general public.

Story was also published in later editions of the Standard in London. I've also tried to comment on the website for them but what a surprise neither the sun or the standard has (so far) published my comment revealing that this is VERY old news and is nothing to do with the Olympics. Some other commenters have clearly (from what they've written) formed the assumption that this is recent. WHO WHERE AND WHEN. That's the normal rules for jornalism.

They deliberately don't mention ANY dates in this article. It's the only conclusion I can reach. They had several opportunities. They mentioned their sentences and that they're due to be deported but didn't say WHEN they were convicted.

Yes, they mention women being "willingly" trafficked, but it's a very slight admission and is easily lost in the rest of it. Many will still think that it simply means they came here knowing they'd be prostitutes but not realising they'd be en-slaved and ripped off and treated badly...they'll still see the pimps as these guys.

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They don't print my comment but in the standard this gem is printed.....

"9 years ago working on a down market Sunday newspaper the then editor always wanted a brothel story or something to do with immigration. It was never difficult to find them and owners even sent in videos of clients who they thought were famous. Brothels were run by all sorts of people, councillors, bank managers, triads and Albanians.

It always amazed me that the men who used them were educated and prepared to risk all for £100 sex. Over the years I have had male friends who have been with hundreds of sex workers and only stopped when their doctors told them they were very close to getting aids. I have spoken with Albanian gangsters who tell of their move to the UK as the most financially profitable thing they ever did- they think we are easy."

Words fail me.

Edit - they've printed my comment in the standard. At the second attempt

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They don't print my comment but in the standard this gem is printed.....

"9 years ago working on a down market Sunday newspaper the then editor always wanted a brothel story or something to do with immigration. It was never difficult to find them and owners even sent in videos of clients who they thought were famous. Brothels were run by all sorts of people, councillors, bank managers, triads and Albanians.

It always amazed me that the men who used them were educated and prepared to risk all for £100 sex. Over the years I have had male friends who have been with hundreds of sex workers and only stopped when their doctors told them they were very close to getting aids. I have spoken with Albanian gangsters who tell of their move to the UK as the most financially profitable thing they ever did- they think we are easy."

Words fail me.

Edit - they've printed my comment in the standard. At the second attempt

Good grief, I have truly heard it all now. How can you be "very close to getting Aids" ? :D

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Don't you just love the freedom of speech .... that is unless you have the truth to tell and it doesn't help the unscrupulous to sell their shoddy goods .... at which point they blank you off in better style than the Berlin Wall ever did or could.

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How can you be "very close to getting Aids" ? :D

When you only put it in a little bit.

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When you only put it in a little bit.

When you have sex with hookers so many times that one more......:D

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I read the Evening Standard version (printed directly above and much larger than one on 'honour killings') and took it to be a recent story. Evidently not.

For anyone else intending to complain (so much as one can about a freesheet) I attach a link to the Press Complaints Commission form:

http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/form.html

I mean whatever will they do next--- run a headline 'Queen Dead' and put Victoria's mugshot underneath?

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Edit - they've printed my comment in the standard. At the second attempt

Thank you. So surprised that ES published your comment. Sun did not!

I read the Evening Standard version (printed directly above and much larger than one on 'honour killings') and took it to be a recent story. Evidently not.

For anyone else intending to complain (so much as one can about a freesheet) I attach a link to the Press Complaints Commission form:

http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/form.html

I mean whatever will they do next--- run a headline 'Queen Dead' and put Victoria's mugshot underneath?

Its not a first time this rags re-hashed the same news stories from a years ago.(don't have time to search for other examples) Have anybody tried to complain before to PCC and what outcome was?

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Thank you. So surprised that ES published your comment. Sun did not!

Its not a first time this rags re-hashed the same news stories from a years ago.(don't have time to search for other examples) Have anybody tried to complain before to PCC and what outcome was?

written the comment twice now on the Sun's page. Nothing. At least the ES did eventually print it although I'm slightly paranoid that they've waited till half way through the next day i.e when most people have read it and it's no longer on the front page of the site etc.etc.

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When you only put it in a little bit.
Brilliant!:D

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definitely avoiding printing my comment on The Sun's website. I've sent an email to the crime editor who wrote the piece. See if that gets a response.

email as follows....

I am writing in response to your article on the Trafficked woman who was sold on Oxford Street. A horrendous story, and one which you wrote about in conjunction with a story on the Olympics and the need to service the 25000 or so Olympic workers, and inevitably the spectators and tourists who come for the games themselves. However you didn't mention any dates in the story, even though it would normally be journalistic routine to do so; for example..."They were sentenced in December 2005 to a total of 63 years in jail." But, in my opinion, you deliberately avoided mentioning that little detail to make your readers believe that this was a current and relevant story, that directly related to the desire of traffickers to fulfil the needs of a burgeoning market in East London. These men were investigated and arrested prior to the Olympics being handed to London; almost 5 years ago. The story of the 16 year old which you also mentioned in the article is also directly related to those same five Albanian pimps whose crimes were dealt with years ago.

It is my opinion that you have deliberately sought to mislead your readership into believing there is a significant and current problem with sexual slavery in the UK. When there is not. The police's statistics have been exposed as exaggerated by Nick Davies who wrote in the Guardian. They have claimed arrests which never happened, charged women who were originally touted as being rescued with being traffickers themselves, and the vast majority of those traffickers were convicted on the basis that they aided a willing prostitute to travel in order to work as a prostitute. Trafficking, in UK law, does not equate to sex slavery. You do make a passing reference to women who are willingly trafficked but it is most probably lost on your readership when faced with a horrifying and seemingly current story which is implied to be an everyday occurence. I have attempted, twice, to write a comment on your website pointing these details out, but you have failed to print it. After submitting my comment however, other comments HAVE been added to your site including one saying "God bless the metropolitan police and The Sun....."

Could you please enlighten me as to how your selection process for comments works?

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what we hear is the tip of the iceberg. The real scale no one knows !!. We all are very happy to bury the head in the sand thinking everything is rosy out there and thinking that all the girls are working as independent. The reality is far from it.

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The reality is far from it.

But as you rightly say, "The real scale no one knows !!".

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what we hear is the tip of the iceberg. The real scale no one knows !!. We all are very happy to bury the head in the sand thinking everything is rosy out there and thinking that all the girls are working as independent. The reality is far from it.

Yes but the tip of the iceberg is one 5 year old story which has been regurgitated in the press whenever they need a horror story. If they had something more recent on that scale don't you think they'd have used it?

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what we hear is the tip of the iceberg. The real scale no one knows !!. We all are very happy to bury the head in the sand thinking everything is rosy out there and thinking that all the girls are working as independent. The reality is far from it.

HOW do YOU have this insight that i dont have despite punting for 25 years? HOW do YOU know organised pimps run ladies on Adultw0rk and that according to you its widespread as you have posted. HOW CAN YOU possibly know its widespread?

Are you alleging these ladies, EE in your previous posts are being forced, or are they doing it of their own free will? This is the fifth or sixth time i have asked you this question, you have yet to reply to any of them, up to you of course, but why make these allegations if you are not going to explain how you know what your alleging to be true as you believe it to be?

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HOW do YOU have this insight that i dont have despite punting for 25 years? HOW do YOU know organised pimps run ladies on Adultw0rk and that according to you its widespread as you have posted. HOW CAN YOU possibly know its widespread?

Are you alleging these ladies, EE in your previous posts are being forced, or are they doing it of their own free will? This is the fifth or sixth time i have asked you this question, you have yet to reply to any of them, up to you of course, but why make these allegations if you are not going to explain how you know what your alleging to be true as you believe it to be?

Excuse me, but did he say he had any insights? Thought not. I fared rather better with my own comment in this thread which was not disimilar to his. Everyone ignored it, rather than confront a painful reality, I suspect. Perhaps I got off lightly because as a long-standing poster here I've earned a little more respect, but the point remains. Now, let me lose that respect in record speed.

What he said was: "what we hear is the tip of the iceberg. The real scale no one knows !!. We all are very happy to bury the head in the sand thinking everything is rosy out there and thinking that all the girls are working as independent. The reality is far from it." It's his opinion, in other words. He actually says "no one knows the real scale."

What seems pretty obvious to me is two things: First, some girls are trafficked. It's not -- as any punter knows -- anywhere near 80, 50, or even 30% but it's not 1% either. And secondly, even if it is 1% or just one girl, that's one too many. And if we -- punters, the people who actually engage with this industry -- don't care then who the fuck will look out for the interests of these girls? I can tell you it won't be The Sun.

I've rarely come across a group of people more self-serving and able to delude themselves into seeing and believing precisely what they want to than the denizens of this board. Get a fucking grip.

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Excuse me, but did he say he had any insights? Thought not. I fared rather better with my own comment in this thread which was not disimilar to his. Everyone ignored it, rather than confront a painful reality, I suspect. Perhaps I got off lightly because as a long-standing poster here I've earned a little more respect, but the point remains. Now, let me lose that respect in record speed.

What he said was: "what we hear is the tip of the iceberg. The real scale no one knows !!. We all are very happy to bury the head in the sand thinking everything is rosy out there and thinking that all the girls are working as independent. The reality is far from it." It's his opinion, in other words. He actually says "no one knows the real scale."

What seems pretty obvious to me is two things: First, some girls are trafficked. It's not -- as any punter knows -- anywhere near 80, 50, or even 30% but it's not 1% either. And secondly, even if it is 1% or just one girl, that's one too many. And if we -- punters, the people who actually engage with this industry -- don't care then who the fuck will look out for the interests of these girls? I can tell you it won't be The Sun.

I've rarely come across a group of people more self-serving and able to delude themselves into seeing and believing precisely what they want to than the denizens of this board. Get a fucking grip.

well if the police and HH/JS etc were able to validate any of their claims we might not be so defensive. The reason people get to this point is that the govt has insisted on ridiculous numbers. Now, after the numbers have been ripped to shreds they're more vague about numbers and grudgingly allow the term "willingly trafficked" but they're repeating the same old stories that have been in the papers numerous times already. I don't think anyone denies that sexual slavery exists but if they appear to understate it, they're doing so as a defence mechanism to the protagonists even more outlandish overstating and repeated use of the same stories years after the event. They do seem to be short on genuine sex slave stories. They keep giving out statistics on trafficked women who are rescued (25 being mentioned in the Sun's story for this year) but we all know that that number will be inflated by the loose definition of trafficking in UK law. How many, if any, were even close to being in this girl's category is a mystery.

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Excuse me, but did he say he had any insights? Thought not. I fared rather better with my own comment in this thread which was not disimilar to his. Everyone ignored it, rather than confront a painful reality, I suspect. Perhaps I got off lightly because as a long-standing poster here I've earned a little more respect, but the point remains. Now, let me lose that respect in record speed.

What he said was: "what we hear is the tip of the iceberg. The real scale no one knows !!. We all are very happy to bury the head in the sand thinking everything is rosy out there and thinking that all the girls are working as independent. The reality is far from it." It's his opinion, in other words. He actually says "no one knows the real scale."

What seems pretty obvious to me is two things: First, some girls are trafficked. It's not -- as any punter knows -- anywhere near 80, 50, or even 30% but it's not 1% either. And secondly, even if it is 1% or just one girl, that's one too many. And if we -- punters, the people who actually engage with this industry -- don't care then who the fuck will look out for the interests of these girls? I can tell you it won't be The Sun.

I've rarely come across a group of people more self-serving and able to delude themselves into seeing and believing precisely what they want to than the denizens of this board. Get a fucking grip.

He has posted that he has insights numerous times on other threads especially A/W ones where he makes serious allegations about EE ladies not being Indies but controlled by pimps and that it is a widespread thing. Thats why i said i had asked him these questions before. He posts and doesnt explain how he knows what he says he does. How does he have this insight that i dont have and how can he know its widespread. I would also like to know if he is alleging these ladies are being forced or working of their own free will.

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Excuse me, but did he say he had any insights? Thought not. I fared rather better with my own comment in this thread which was not disimilar to his. Everyone ignored it, rather than confront a painful reality, I suspect. Perhaps I got off lightly because as a long-standing poster here I've earned a little more respect, but the point remains. Now, let me lose that respect in record speed.

What he said was: "what we hear is the tip of the iceberg. The real scale no one knows !!. We all are very happy to bury the head in the sand thinking everything is rosy out there and thinking that all the girls are working as independent. The reality is far from it." It's his opinion, in other words. He actually says "no one knows the real scale."

What seems pretty obvious to me is two things: First, some girls are trafficked. It's not -- as any punter knows -- anywhere near 80, 50, or even 30% but it's not 1% either. And secondly, even if it is 1% or just one girl, that's one too many. And if we -- punters, the people who actually engage with this industry -- don't care then who the fuck will look out for the interests of these girls? I can tell you it won't be The Sun.

I've rarely come across a group of people more self-serving and able to delude themselves into seeing and believing precisely what they want to than the denizens of this board. Get a fucking grip.

Get your facts right before having a go. If you had read my post that you replied to you should of seen i clearly mention that i had asked the poster questions about his allegations a number of times before, so i wasnt posting regarding just this post of his on this thread but to try to get an answer to his other allegations made elsewhere.

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what we hear is the tip of the iceberg. The real scale no one knows !!. We all are very happy to bury the head in the sand thinking everything is rosy out there and thinking that all the girls are working as independent. The reality is far from it.

I totally agree with you, Dream, it is not all rosy out there.

Edited by MK_Bonnie
Addition

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