Gemma Harris

Proposed new laws.....bring em on!!

33 posts in this topic

If it comes to fruition I would imagine that most guys will be playing it safe, ie not visiting foreign girls just incase they are trafficked, not using agencies or parlours as they are pimped so will be playing it safe, using white independant home grown girls.

Fabulous that is me.......wonder how many of us are going to lift our prices up as high as our skirts??

:(

S x

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If it comes to fruition I would imagine that most guys will be playing it safe, ie not visiting foreign girls just incase they are trafficked, not using agencies or parlours as they are pimped so will be playing it safe, using white independant home grown girls.

Fabulous that is me.......wonder how many of us are going to lift our prices up as high as our skirts??

:(

S x

Not me, I shall continue as I'm doing so now.

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What you will find is that parlour owners will take legal advice, supposing the proposals get into law, about how they can legally operate. It will be quite clear that if the girls are all self employed and paid directly by their clients that the parlour owner will be protected. This is effectively how the system is in Scotland although parlours do fine girls for not turning up for their shoft and its this kind of practice that will have to end. Unfortunately that will make these businesses more difficult to operate, but whether that will result in a boom for indies is difficult to say.

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If it comes to fruition I would imagine that most guys will be playing it safe, ie not visiting foreign girls just incase they are trafficked, not using agencies or parlours as they are pimped so will be playing it safe, using white independant home grown girls.

Fabulous that is me.......wonder how many of us are going to lift our prices up as high as our skirts??

:(

S x

Same here (except I dont wear skirts, nor do I control my prices).

Regulars - sheer Bliss !

(or as they say in the NE: "Ooh Bless!")

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We have spoken to a criminal law solicitor this morning.

All pie in the sky at present as this is not yet the law. If the girls were self employed and were to work for a 'booking agency' on a sub-contract basis this could possible be the future for agencies.

Having worked on a sub-contract basis and having read a sub-contract, it would appear that this could in principle work.

However all the girls working for agencies at present have got to work somewhere, so they'll all become 'independants'. This would in turn cause that area of the market to become saturated, girls under cutting one another with prices, scrambling for convenient locations to work from, touting for clients etc etc. Every client would have only one market place in which to shop, that being the independant market. It'll be fierce.

The proposals are very black and white on paper but from a police point of view it would be a total nightmare to actually get a conviction to court as the 'trafficked' bit is the 'hook' and without making a WG a hostile witness you're reliant on her evidence in court.

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If it comes to fruition I would imagine that most guys will be playing it safe, ie not visiting foreign girls just incase they are trafficked, not using agencies or parlours as they are pimped so will be playing it safe, using white independant home grown girls.

Fabulous that is me.......wonder how many of us are going to lift our prices up as high as our skirts??

;)

S x

"white"??:(

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What you will find is that parlour owners will take legal advice, supposing the proposals get into law, about how they can legally operate. It will be quite clear that if the girls are all self employed and paid directly by their clients that the parlour owner will be protected. This is effectively how the system is in Scotland although parlours do fine girls for not turning up for their shoft and its this kind of practice that will have to end. Unfortunately that will make these businesses more difficult to operate, but whether that will result in a boom for indies is difficult to say.

Legal advice to any parlour owners is that owning a brothel is illegal now and still will be if the law comes in. So any good lawyers good not give advice to open one. Lawyers as far as I know are not allowed to advise its ok to break the law. They way be there for you later.

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The whole thing is bullshit and am I right in saying this had to be passed by the House of Lords who don't seem to support the stupid proposal at all.

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The whole thing is bullshit and am I right in saying this had to be passed by the House of Lords who don't seem to support the stupid proposal at all.

Well, it is full of men with a bit of spare cash... you honestly think none of them would be affected if they passed the bill?

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I would sumise that a lot of the male members of the house of Lords are directly involved with escorts anyway (alledgedly).

So hopefully, as vicegirl says, it is unlikely to get through, I Hope!:(

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Not sure i agree with those who think indie market will be saturated ,pretty sure a lot of parlour girls would have gone indie if they could .

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Not sure i agree with those who think indie market will be saturated ,pretty sure a lot of parlour girls would have gone indie if they could .

I'm assuming the market for "companionship" is pretty stable as it is.

any changes we see in near future is more likely to be from more-entrants due to credit- or cash-crunch.

Possibly some pressure on prices at the Awanks end of the market, for those who venture there.

Entrants with minimal costs may try to underbid existing parties. (hm... do you want to drive a nano or a dacia car?). Market-actors in trouble may offer discounts (would you buy a buick or pontiac knowing the company is about to go bust?)

I would not expect prices at the mid-segment or uppper ends to move much. Service might improve a bit in mid-market though (Volkswagen and Audi dealers may actually start smiling at customers for a change).

note: I'm speculating here, I'm not familiar with automotive and I've not really studied the escort/companionship market either. But I am quite happy with my current UK providers (you know who you are, CU soon...)

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Not sure i agree with those who think indie market will be saturated ,pretty sure a lot of parlour girls would have gone indie if they could .

Actually no ! 50% of the girls that work for us also work as Independents on 'other days'. The point of the saturation theory is that if a girl currently working in a parlour wants to continue to work she will become an 'indie' or certainly will appear to be working as an Indie. If The MK Parlours closed that would add about 60/70 girls all still wanting to work in MK, how do you think that would affect the Indie market ?

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Not sure i agree with those who think indie market will be saturated ,pretty sure a lot of parlour girls would have gone indie if they could .

I have often asked parlour girls why they are not independent. The answers are:

Security

No advertising

All organised for them

They leave at the end of the day. Job done, another life. As an independent, like any self employed person the job is not over when the work ends. You are always looking for the next job.

If the brothels go, then they will have to become independent or stop working.

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I have often asked parlour girls why they are not independent. The answers are:

Security

No advertising

All organised for them

They leave at the end of the day. Job done, another life. As an independent, like any self employed person the job is not over when the work ends. You are always looking for the next job.

If the brothels go, then they will have to become independent or stop working.

Yes, the ladies I have spoken to have also said they like the camaraderie you get in a parlour, its a lot more isolated as an indie. There will surely be a way around all this. Prostitution and all its nuances and various legal threats has always survived/found a way around things - some clever soul will come up with the perfect solution.

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I agree with all these comments....legalities....etc etc. But I think the issue which is most pressing is that punting is now an "arrestable" offence.

Sure....you may bring in a lawyer and argue the case the the girl is "independent", a "subcontractor", "local girl"...etc etc....therefore the punter himself should not be given a criminal record +/- a hefty fine......

Sure...you may win the case.....but by that stage, you will have to ask your wife or girlfriend to bail you out of the police station, fork out thousands of pounds to fight the case.....and on top of that....try to explain to your other half why the f--k you were f--king a prostitute in the first place. The fact that you get arrested is more than evidence enough to land you in divorce territory for your infidelity - there is no other way to explain this one. The size of the Divorce settlement and child support payment now just makes the whole punting economics out of the equation. The decision is simple.....take a hugh risk, pay £80 for 30 minutes and possibly loose £400,000, or surf internet porn and pay £3.95 monthly subscription (with the risk at worst.......a slap on the wrist).

I think the new laws, in a perverted way, are saying to a lot of guys out there......"go on....take your chance". I think I know my answer.

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oh....forgot to say......

Getting a criminal record means you will most likely lose your current job, and has every chance of you not getting another decent job ....ever again.

I think the law is more effective than you might think.

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But I think the issue which is most pressing is that punting is now an "arrestable" offence.

Not yet.............

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oh....forgot to say......

Getting a criminal record means you will most likely lose your current job, and has every chance of you not getting another decent job ....ever again.

I think the law is more effective than you might think.

Out of curiousity I thought I would type in percentage of people with criminal records just to see how many there are actually floating around..

This link is interesting:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hosb401.pdf

33 per cent of males and 9 per cent of females born in 1953 had been convicted of at least one ‘standard list’ offence before the age of forty-six.

22 per cent of males currently aged 10 to 45 are estimated to have a conviction for at least one standard list offence..

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Not sure i agree with those who think indie market will be saturated ,pretty sure a lot of parlour girls would have gone indie if they could .

I tend to agree with you brickie, after all who wants to pay a middleman, however parlours will always have a place for girls that don't want to bother with the advertising, costs of setting up on their own along with not having the premises to do so.

Divine are right there are alot of girls on parlour books that also work for themselves, although I would imagine there are not alot of parlours that encourage this.

However that other 50% of girls that they are on about would do so if it was possible already, it is not easy to get premises, you mostly have to go through letting agencies which require proof of ID, proof you can pay the rent along with credit checking and bonds. A student or a single mom with a place already would not be able to do this, or find it pretty damn hard.

There is the option of sharing costs with other girls, where do they stand then with the more than one girl is a brothel?

I don't believe it will be saturated with indi girls they will still work for parlours that are in business but I think there will be less business as men will be concious of the fact they will be facing penalties if caught.

S x

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I am not disputing with you Danish Pie, and thanks for highlighting those statistics. But I think just because 22% of men between ages 10 and 45 have a criminal record does not make it acceptable to get a criminal record. I would be interested, tough, if you can find the statistic of job types and income range of those people who hold a criminal record.

Currently if you are caught in a brothel, whether you are in action or not, you simply get a slap on the wrist by the cops, and you are on your way. You just tell your other half the London Underground is not working.

But in the future.....if you are caught in a brothel.....you will find yourself first in a police station, whether you are eventually guilty or not.

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The fact of the matter is that this is a proposed law, meaning at present clients are not committing a criminal offence.

When and if the law comes in then brothels as we know them will cease to trade. However where there is a will there is a way, as your confidence confirms Sabrina men will want sex with prostitutes regardless. It will just force certain elements further underground, which in regards to the real victims is a shame. I am sure the bill hasn't been proposed to benefit independant unless Ms Smith is keeping one eye on her future career?

If all the agency / brothel / out-call agency / multi-share flat girls are suddenly not allowed to work in their current working enviroment then the way I see it they have one of four choices;

1. Go Independent in anything from their own home, bedsit or luxury flat or rent.

2. Retire and go into civvie street.

3. Work the streets.

4. Work for the real untouchables who stick a girl in an empty flat on her own with a mobile then take 90% of her take at the end of the day. But hey the client saw her in an empty flat, on her own and she answered the phone.

I think you underestimate the rest of the female race in not being able to become successful independents. I'd say 75% of our staff have the means to and if it came to it we'd make sure they all left, having this sorted out :(

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What about this co-operative thing that I read somewhere. Would that satisfy these new laws?

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However all the girls working for agencies at present have got to work somewhere, so they'll all become 'independants'.

They don't all have to work somewhere. Some will leave the profession. Turnover is high, so it's not even necessary for girls to leave the profession any earlier than they would otherwise for numbers to drop rapidly.

The proposals are very black and white on paper but from a police point of view it would be a total nightmare to actually get a conviction to court as the 'trafficked' bit is the 'hook' and without making a WG a hostile witness you're reliant on her evidence in court.

Not necessarily. I haven't seen the details, but from the terrible muddle that comes through the media, it appears that anybody who pays for sex with somebody who is "controlled" will be breaking the law. "Controlled" could very easily cover all prostitutes except for those who are single, work independently, and don't advertise. They may even draft the law badly in order to maximise this kind of ambiguity. But they'll achieve that through incompetence anyway.

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I would sumise that a lot of the male members of the house of Lords are directly involved with escorts anyway (alledgedly).

So hopefully, as vicegirl says, it is unlikely to get through, I Hope!:(

It's unlikely to be blocked by the Lords. The government can force it through by sending it back, there hasn't been much protest from the Lords so far. It's quite rare for the Lords to succeed in blocking anything.

Now that it's got this far, it's highly unlikely that the proposals won't become law.

And it's even more unlikely that it will get revoked or fixed in our punting lifetimes. There are no votes in prostitution, and the tory party is full of religious people. This is driven by ideology, not votes.

Maybe if the lib dems get voted in is the only hope I can see. Not likely, but more likely than any other way.

Edited by mirror
add some more

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