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A Call For The Abolition Of Prostitution On Radio 4 Last Night

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Did anyone hear the programme in Radio 4's "Four Thought" series last night in which Rebecca Mott called for the abolition of prostitution, claiming that:-

  • It is a living hell
  • It is an extreme form of torture
  • It is a world where punters have full permission to be as sadistic as they can imagine
  • "Prostituted women" are rendered subhuman
  • 12-15 years old is the average age of entry into prostitution in western countries
  • She was a prostitute for 14 years.
  • "It was not rare for me to have my head held down in a bath or toilet as a punter would rape me from behind"
  • "I was tortured with strangulation and punters prevented me from sleeping"
  • "What happened to me is common practice in all aspects of prostitution"

This was a curious programme on at least two counts:-

  • Rebecca Front gave us no context which would have allowed us to get a fix on the environment in which she worked as a prostitute for 14 years, which differs so dramatically from the conditions which those of us on this board are used to
  • The programme lasted less than 15 minutes, but was recorded in front of a live audience. Did they really all turn up for such a short event? I wonder whether the programme was edited down from a longer talk, or whether there was a non-broadcast question and answer session at the end, or whether a number of these "Four Thought" programmes are recorded in one sitting.

Rebecca Front's exposition was so extreme, I wonder whether "Four Thought", or Radio 4 in general, would be responsive to any request from say Laura Lee, Nikki Adams, Catherine Stephens, or Brooke Magnanti to present an alternative view of the profession.

 

The programme is due to be repeated on Radio 4 on Saturday at 22:15 and Sunday at 05:45 or you can listen online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042l78n or via podcast at http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/fourthought    

 

 

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Did anyone hear the programme in Radio 4's "Four Thought" series last night in which Rebecca Mott called for the abolition of prostitution, claiming that:-

  • It is a living hell
  • It is an extreme form of torture
  • It is a world where punters have full permission to be as sadistic as they can imagine
  • "Prostituted women" are rendered subhuman
  • 12-15 years old is the average age of entry into prostitution in western countries
  • She was a prostitute for 14 years.
  • "It was not rare for me to have my head held down in a bath or toilet as a punter would rape me from behind"
  • "I was tortured with strangulation and punters prevented me from sleeping"
  • "What happened to me is common practice in all aspects of prostitution"

This was a curious programme on at least two counts:-

  • Rebecca Front gave us no context which would have allowed us to get a fix on the environment in which she worked as a prostitute for 14 years, which differs so dramatically from the conditions which those of us on this board are used to
  • The programme lasted less than 15 minutes, but was recorded in front of a live audience. Did they really all turn up for such a short event? I wonder whether the programme was edited down from a longer talk, or whether there was a non-broadcast question and answer session at the end, or whether a number of these "Four Thought" programmes are recorded in one sitting.

Rebecca Front's exposition was so extreme, I wonder whether "Four Thought", or Radio 4 in general, would be responsive to any request from say Laura Lee, Nikki Adams, Catherine Stephens, or Brooke Magnanti to present an alternative view of the profession.

 

The programme is due to be repeated on Radio 4 on Saturday at 22:15 and Sunday at 05:45 or you can listen online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042l78n or via podcast at http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/fourthought    

There is nothing to stop you addressing this issue with the controller of Radio 4.

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I didn't hear the programme referred to.

From what you say it presented a totally distorted/skewed picture of what actually takes place within these shores as a general rule.

Abolition of prostitution is, simply, not going to happen.

Curbs will force the matter 'underground' and thus be counterproductive.

PC Plod, the Courts and the Prisons have not the resources to deal with all of this.

 

 

I might add "and neither should they!"

 

Uncle Pokey

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What happened to her is terrible awful but it is not my experience.

 

Most of the subhuman/discrimination/victimisation I find comes from outside paid sex.

Edited by Strawberry
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I think the whole idea of abolishing prostitution is just  fundamentally incorrect. We are living in a democracy, aren't we? Therefore, I just fail to understand, how is it possible for other people to tell me what to do (or not to do) with my own body. 

Those who have terrible experiences/ are not comfortable with it could just stop, no? That Rebecca worked as prostitute for 14 year..

In my view, its not about prostitution, but  rather, about forcing your own beliefs onto other people. 

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I think the whole idea of abolishing prostitution is just  fundamentally incorrect. We are living in a democracy, aren't we? Therefore, I just fail to understand, how is it possible for other people to tell me what to do (or not to do) with my own body. 

Those who have terrible experiences/ are not comfortable with it could just stop, no? That Rebecca worked as prostitute for 14 year..

In my view, its not about prostitution, but  rather, about forcing your own beliefs onto other people.

Amen. I can understand her having had a bad time of it and wanting to try and prevent others from suffering, however it sounds like her views are almost entirely subjective, and hanging around with antis isn't gonna help her get a clearer picture either. There are plenty of ex-prostitutes like Ruth Jacobs and Jes Richardson whom, though they had traumatic experiences, have a far more logical and pragmatic outlook, and weren't brainwashed by the radfems.

The irony of NGOs pimping out sex workers to promote their agenda is apparently lost on them.

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I'd like any opinion on whether or not someone like Rebecca Mott is 'fair game'. In other words, things like complaining to the BBC that they allowed blatant bull-shine on their radio channel, adding comments to her blog ( which is designed to accept comments to be fair ).

 

There is an argument to ignore her:

-she gets no government grants afaik

-she has serious health issues

-she has financial problems

-there are almost no references to tv programmes in her blogs, making me think she probably doesn't have tv at all, let alone Sky and a big flat screen

-she hasn't been at this topic for a decase, got into campaigning against prostitution after the Ipswich street-worker murders, but rather than take the pro-sex worker view that women should be allowed to protect themselves by sharing premises, she believes they should not be permitted to share premises and moreover that their customers should be criminals, somehow combining both an anti-sex worker and an anti-men view, a sign of illness possibly.

 

The argument to treat her as fair game is that she does put herself up for debate, tells some outrageous lies, and projects her view of prostitution as the majority experience.

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

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"What happened to me is common practice in all aspects of prostitution"

 

How is she so sure what allegedly happened to her is the case for everyone else? Did she ask all the other 100,000+ sex workers in the UK?

 

 

12-15 years old is the average age of entry into prostitution in western countries

 

This has been dubunked so many times. It isn't true.

 

There's also another myth antis commonly state something about the average lifespan for a woman once she enters sexwork is 7 years.

 

So if the average age of entry is 12-15 and sexworkers die 7 years or sooner after starting how do you explain the huge number of sexworkers in their 30s, 40s and 50s???

 

 

It is a world where punters have full permission to be as sadistic as they can imagine

 

IMO saying things like this will not help sexworkers. If potentially unsafe customers hear that they might believe it which would only make them more likely to be dangerous.

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How is she so sure what allegedly happened to her is the case for everyone else? Did she ask all the other 100,000+ sex workers in the UK?

 

 

This has been dubunked so many times. It isn't true.

 

There's also another myth antis commonly state something about the average lifespan for a woman once she enters sexwork is 7 years.

 

So if the average age of entry is 12-15 and sexworkers die 7 years or sooner after starting how do you explain the huge number of sexworkers in their 30s, 40s and 50s???

 

 

IMO saying things like this will not help sexworkers. If potentially unsafe customers hear that they might believe it which would only make them more likely to be dangerous.

The majority of antis seem to favour stereotypes and fearmongering in lieu of logical, reasoned debate or proposing realistic, workable solutions

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So if the average age of entry is 12-15 and sexworkers die 7 years or sooner after starting how do you explain the huge number of sexworkers in their 30s, 40s and 50s???

 .

It's also mathematically illiterate. Let's assume that by "12-15" they mean 13.5. So for every person who starts at 18 there has to be someone starting at 9 to keep the average. Or perhaps a couple of starters at 10.5.

Just how likely us that in Europe?

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Truly dreadful piece, I appreciate Mott didn't have a good experience in prostitution, but there's still no need to compare it to water boarding and 

assert that to be true of the entire industry. 

 

I hope to redress the balance somewhat on R5 next week but if I could find a way to do a 15 min slot on R4 like that, it might be very valuable in 

laying the ground work in preparation for the predicted abolitionist onslaught. 

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You can listen to it tonight 22.15 Radio 4 or here.

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I have no interest in it - I am very shocked and sorry for her if she had these experiences, but the platform she is being given is agenda-driven. Wouldn't be surprised if she was being paid by some lobby or group to promote this version of how prostitution works, as it were.

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I listened to this at the crack of dawn this morning (or at least 05.45). I have never punted with an escort who sounded as though she had been through even half of what Rebecca claimed to have endured. It seems to me that her problems started with physical, sexual and emotional abuse in the home from the age of, I believe, 8 years old. This treatment is clearly at the heart of her situation and she never explained how that led to her becoming immersed in prostitution.

 

In addition, she describes a group of men who seemed intent on continuing the abuse throughout her 14 years in the profession. I have not seen evidence of such guys on this board, nor read of similar treatment from such men by escorts on this board.

 

I realise that this board may not be typical; however Rebecca's account was lacking in any logical explanation, nor of any attempt by her to seek help while she was being abused.

The whole thing does not stack up.

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Truly dreadful piece, I appreciate Mott didn't have a good experience in prostitution, but there's still no need to compare it to water boarding and 

assert that to be true of the entire industry. 

 

I hope to redress the balance somewhat on R5 next week but if I could find a way to do a 15 min slot on R4 like that, it might be very valuable in 

laying the ground work in preparation for the predicted abolitionist onslaught. 

There are people who have dreadful experiences in 1) the armed forces 2) the police 3) the social services 4) the NHS 5) Rock n roll bands 6) the civil service, yet no one suggests that these be outlawed. Why should sex work be any different?

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There are people who have dreadful experiences in 1) the armed forces 2) the police 3) the social services 4) the NHS 5) Rock n roll bands 6) the civil service, yet no one suggests that these be outlawed. Why should sex work be any different?

 

I guess that's why she felt she had to claim that what happened to her is common practice in all aspects of prostitution. That's why I feel this programme cries out for a response to assert that this is not the case.

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By saying what she does on national radio she makes people think that a punter when alone with a WG can do anything that he wants to her, no matter how sadistic. Like push her head into a toilet or bath and nearly drown her. People will believe this, but every punter knows that the WG will say what she is willing to do and what she isn't. The WG is in charge and that is the way it should be.

 

She said that she was raped by rooms full of punters for hours. That doesn't match anything in my experience but I suppose it is similar to what went on in different northern cities when teenage girls were targeted by older men from a different community. That's not prstitution though.

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http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/indian-tea-plantation-workers-enslaved-by-traffickers-1438566

 

There are trafficked victims on tea plantations, but I don't hear any feminist crying for tea to be abolished or for buying tea to be outlawed. Why are the white knights on bumsnet creating several threads a month on sexwork but not a single thread on the trafficked victims at the tea plantations?

 

Taxi drivers are at high risk of assault and robbery, but I don't hear anyone wanting to outlaw taxis or outlaw paying for a taxi fare.

 

Corner shop owners are at high risk of assault and robbery, but I don't hear anyone wanting to outlaw buying something from a corner shop.

 

 

By saying what she does on national radio she makes people think that a punter when alone with a WG can do anything that he wants to her, no matter how sadistic. Like push her head into a toilet or bath and nearly drown her. People will believe this,

 

If punters (the dangerous and less desirable variety) hear and believe this, they will IMO be more likely to think they can get away with it and be more likely to actually behave like that. For the safety of sexworkers they should avoid spouting nonsense like that and make it clear violence against sexworkers will not be tolerated.

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She said that she was raped by rooms full of punters for hours.

 

That isn't prostitution, that is gang rape which is already illegal. People who participate in gang rape are already breaking the law (and they know it). Passing a law to criminalize paying for sexual services is not going to act as a deterrent to people who don't care about breaking the law against gang rape (or holding someone's face down in a bath etc).

 

IMO the nordic model would not have stopped those things happening to Rebecca Mott.

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Was alerted to this on a thread I'm following on Mumsnet (glutton for punishment me!)

 

While I feel sorry for the woman if she did indeed experience any of what she claims; I felt offended that she seems to feel she can claim to be representative while spouting some outrageous untruths.  Laura Lee (or someone) please do your best to redress the balance.

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Was alerted to this on a thread I'm following on Mumsnet (glutton for punishment me!)

 

While I feel sorry for the woman if she did indeed experience any of what she claims; I felt offended that she seems to feel she can claim to be representative while spouting some outrageous untruths.  Laura Lee (or someone) please do your best to redress the balance.

 

Doing my best M'am ! This is from Radio 5 live last night, about 50 mins long.

 

"Why do men pay for sex ?" http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/menshour

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Doing my best M'am ! This is from Radio 5 live last night, about 50 mins long.

 

"Why do men pay for sex ?" http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/menshour

I subscribe to the podcast of this program and had no idea Laura was to be featured, so was a total surprise when I caught up with it today. Tim Samuels is a decent presenter and let Laura and her client Mike give a candid account from both sides - well worth a listen.

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Didn't Laura do well as usual.  Must listen to Five more often, I thought it was only a sports channel.

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Didn't Laura do well as usual.  Must listen to Five more often, I thought it was only a sports channel.

Some folk think of sex as a sport!!

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I just listened to the programme. A very honest take on what I imagine 95% of paid sex is like. I congratulate Laura and the guy for having the courage to speak frankly and help to dispel the myths that are peddled by the less responsible elements of the press.

 

One query; the presenter, Tim Samuels, quotes, early on, a figure of 100k women  in the UK working as sex workers. Does anyone have any corroboration for this?

 

BTW, I only listened to the top 25 minutes or so.  I assume that the programme then reverted to the usual format, and that I didn't miss any more on this topic.

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