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Where are all these trafficked women?

50 posts in this topic

I'm a serious punter.

For well over a decade I've been fucking a least one prostitute a week.

I've fucked women of all ages, shapes and sizes up and down the country from Cornwall to Scotland, as well as abroad.

I've enjoyed girls in brothels, massage parlours, legit health studios/salons, in flats, hotels and in the comfort of my own home.

Some girls have been independant escorts; some have been part of a collective run by groups of WGs; some have worked in places run by a female boss/'madam'; some have worked in traditional male owned places.

The vast majority of this pussy has been home grown British pussy.

Those providers who weren't British were usually Western European, from countries like Italy, France, Germany, Greece, Sweden, etc.

I have payed for sex with other nationalities including Russian, Czech, Thai, Chinese and Japanese.

Some of the Oriental girls I suspect may have been in the country illegally, on visas for other work or lapsed visas.

In all the time I've been punting I can only recall one instance of a situation where I felt that the girl seemed unhappy with her situation and where I was uncomfortable having sex with her. So much so, that although I had paid for full sex I decided to have a wank instead, while she sat beside me not participating.

I have no evidence that this one girl was being forced into prostitution against her will. She may simply have hated her job, as I do mine, or may simply have been having a bad day.

Now it would seem likely that a man who very regularly uses the services of prostitutes, particularly in brothels/parlours, would regularly come across large numbers of ill-treated Eastern European sex slaves if all these stories are real.

Quite the opposite is true. The vast majority of my money has gone to English women who were obviously there by choice, regardless of whether or not financial desperation had played a large part in their decision to sell their bodies.

Where I have had EE girls it's been in Prague or Budapest and there were no signs of coercion there either.

In fact, as I was travelling on a tram to go to the large Showpark brothel in Prague I saw a young girl get off the tram just ahead of me and go in to the brothel just as another two were leaving.

These were young women who were obviously free to come and go and had chosen to work in a brothel in the same way that their friends might have chosen to work at the supermarket.

My experience of sex in the London is more limited than my fairly extensive experience of the sex industry in the provinces.

However, the sex scene in the capital does not appear radically different from that in the rest of the country.

My question to the new legislators is: Where are all the hordes of trafficked women? Where are they hiding? Why haven't I tripped over them during my punting exploits if there are so many of them?

I'm beginning to wonder if all this isn't fantasy and myth, a revival of the 'white slave trade' stories which used to frighten Edwardian chamber maids.

Isn't Moldova supposed to be empty now?

Where have they all gone?

Has anyone seen these women?

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Sadly I haven't had such a long and illustrious punting career as yourself, even so I haven't come across one yet either.

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Have a thought for the Government. They have got to come up with things to divert the attention away for the fuck ups they have made over allowing the banks to become completely uncontrolled. It is like most of the legislation they come up with. Sounds good on paper but unworkable in practice.

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I'm a serious punter.

For well over a decade I've been fucking a least one prostitute a week.

I've fucked women of all ages, shapes and sizes up and down the country from Cornwall to Scotland, as well as abroad.

I've enjoyed girls in brothels, massage parlours, legit health studios/salons, in flats, hotels and in the comfort of my own home.

Some girls have been independant escorts; some have been part of a collective run by groups of WGs; some have worked in places run by a female boss/'madam'; some have worked in traditional male owned places.

The vast majority of this pussy has been home grown British pussy.

Those providers who weren't British were usually Western European, from countries like Italy, France, Germany, Greece, Sweden, etc.

I have payed for sex with other nationalities including Russian, Czech, Thai, Chinese and Japanese.

Some of the Oriental girls I suspect may have been in the country illegally, on visas for other work or lapsed visas.

In all the time I've been punting I can only recall one instance of a situation where I felt that the girl seemed unhappy with her situation and where I was uncomfortable having sex with her. So much so, that although I had paid for full sex I decided to have a wank instead, while she sat beside me not participating.

I have no evidence that this one girl was being forced into prostitution against her will. She may simply have hated her job, as I do mine, or may simply have been having a bad day.

Now it would seem likely that a man who very regularly uses the services of prostitutes, particularly in brothels/parlours, would regularly come across large numbers of ill-treated Eastern European sex slaves if all these stories are real.

Quite the opposite is true. The vast majority of my money has gone to English women who were obviously there by choice, regardless of whether or not financial desperation had played a large part in their decision to sell their bodies.

Where I have had EE girls it's been in Prague or Budapest and there were no signs of coercion there either.

In fact, as I was travelling on a tram to go to the large Showpark brothel in Prague I saw a young girl get off the tram just ahead of me and go in to the brothel just as another two were leaving.

These were young women who were obviously free to come and go and had chosen to work in a brothel in the same way that their friends might have chosen to work at the supermarket.

My experience of sex in the London is more limited than my fairly extensive experience of the sex industry in the provinces.

However, the sex scene in the capital does not appear radically different from that in the rest of the country.

My question to the new legislators is: Where are all the hordes of trafficked women? Where are they hiding? Why haven't I tripped over them during my punting exploits if there are so many of them?

I'm beginning to wonder if all this isn't fantasy and myth, a revival of the 'white slave trade' stories which used to frighten Edwardian chamber maids.

Isn't Moldova supposed to be empty now?

Where have they all gone?

Has anyone seen these women?

I have not knowingly punted with a trafficked girl in 25 years of punting. Further i have never has suspicions that any girls i have seen were there against there will.

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We all know that the figures have been hyped up, but, just because YOU have not encountered trafficking personally does not mean it doesn't happen. It does. Even if only 10 girls a year are trafficked it's a shame, and it needs to be stopped.

Just like the investigative documentary on Boys Town was suppressed because the scandle involves too many people in important places, leaving the majority of society in the dark. It happened and maybe is happening still.

Closing your eyes to such attrocities does not nul and void them.

I hear some punters are a little heavy handed, beat girls up and leave without payment. It's never happened to me. But it does still happen.

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I'm a serious punter.

For well over a decade I've been fucking a least one prostitute a week.

I've fucked women of all ages, shapes and sizes up and down the country from Cornwall to Scotland, as well as abroad.

I've enjoyed girls in brothels, massage parlours, legit health studios/salons, in flats, hotels and in the comfort of my own home.

Some girls have been independant escorts; some have been part of a collective run by groups of WGs; some have worked in places run by a female boss/'madam'; some have worked in traditional male owned places.

The vast majority of this pussy has been home grown British pussy.

Those providers who weren't British were usually Western European, from countries like Italy, France, Germany, Greece, Sweden, etc.

I have payed for sex with other nationalities including Russian, Czech, Thai, Chinese and Japanese.

Some of the Oriental girls I suspect may have been in the country illegally, on visas for other work or lapsed visas.

In all the time I've been punting I can only recall one instance of a situation where I felt that the girl seemed unhappy with her situation and where I was uncomfortable having sex with her. So much so, that although I had paid for full sex I decided to have a wank instead, while she sat beside me not participating.

I have no evidence that this one girl was being forced into prostitution against her will. She may simply have hated her job, as I do mine, or may simply have been having a bad day.

Now it would seem likely that a man who very regularly uses the services of prostitutes, particularly in brothels/parlours, would regularly come across large numbers of ill-treated Eastern European sex slaves if all these stories are real.

Quite the opposite is true. The vast majority of my money has gone to English women who were obviously there by choice, regardless of whether or not financial desperation had played a large part in their decision to sell their bodies.

Where I have had EE girls it's been in Prague or Budapest and there were no signs of coercion there either.

In fact, as I was travelling on a tram to go to the large Showpark brothel in Prague I saw a young girl get off the tram just ahead of me and go in to the brothel just as another two were leaving.

These were young women who were obviously free to come and go and had chosen to work in a brothel in the same way that their friends might have chosen to work at the supermarket.

My experience of sex in the London is more limited than my fairly extensive experience of the sex industry in the provinces.

However, the sex scene in the capital does not appear radically different from that in the rest of the country.

My question to the new legislators is: Where are all the hordes of trafficked women? Where are they hiding? Why haven't I tripped over them during my punting exploits if there are so many of them?

I'm beginning to wonder if all this isn't fantasy and myth, a revival of the 'white slave trade' stories which used to frighten Edwardian chamber maids.

Isn't Moldova supposed to be empty now?

Where have they all gone?

Has anyone seen these women?

You only have to read some of the would not return FR's to see where some may be. But this law goes more than that. It allows punters to be arrested at the place where he is punting and taken in for questioning along with the lady if she is working in a place controlled by another. That is most places apart from the indie's flat. There are some girls who do not want to work and pimps boyfriends etc force them. Could be as many as 25 % I imagine of WG's where punters could be arrested if it becomes law.

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You may all wear a white shirt, but its pretty easy to see pimps and their girls, and it is further pretty easy to conclude that pressure through physical force or blackmailing of some sort, and quite possibly trafficking (sp?) and/or illegal immigration is involved.

Simply hang around an hour or so in one of the well known areas. In London, try Earl's Court or Paddington, for example. Try not to look like a private eye, and you'll soon see unusual companies. Say, for example, two or three Albanian-looking gentlemen in their mid thirties, collecting their four Thai-looking girlfriends in their mid twenties from the Asian food store.

This is not to say that all Albanians are pimps or vice versa, or all Thai girls are illigal, pimped, trafficked, .... I only mention those as an example, referring to a scene that I witnessed myself.

None of the girls I ever saw for an appointment left me with any impression of oppression in any way. In that, I agree with you. To conclude that trafficking doesn't happen, or only happens in insignifficant numbers, means to lie to yourself, however. I believe it happens in large enough numbers for everyone to actually see it with his/her own eyes, if you only allow yourself the possibility.

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CRIMINALISING PROSTITUTION AND ACTION AGAINST TRAFFICKING FOR SEXUAL EXPLOITATION07.01.2008

Abbott, Diane

That this House is concerned by recent comments made by Ministers and former Ministers regarding prostitution in the UK; notes that calls to ban prostitution in order to prevent trafficking for sexual exploitation appear to be ill thought-out; understands that Government raids on prostitution establishments as part of Operation Pentameter have not found a vast number of trafficked workers but rather that women working in such establishments are more likely to be made vulnerable by debts incurred during migration, or by poverty that drives them into sex work; further notes that women who are recognised as victims of trafficking are given few rights to protection or residency under current legislation; and calls on the Government to rethink its approach to prostitution by focusing on protecting women from exploitation and by offering suitable alternatives to prostitution for those who wish to leave it.

Even they can't find them, taken from House of Commons reports.

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Nobody with any kind of conscience can say that even 1 trafficked girl is acceptable. It is rather like the old saying re the law that is is better for ten guilty men to get off that one innocent man convicted.

However....the pursuit of this aim to eradicate trafficking does not excuse the lies and hype this government spouts to justify new and senseless laws to make it look as if they are doing something useful in governing.

If there are as many as claimed, then the police should be finding them every which way they turn. They have the laws at their disposal without more needed.

If people on here are serious about helping, then they should stop frequenting the type of places we know they are MORE likely to be at. But hey, these are the places where they are cheapest and for too many punters on here, thats the main concern. A cheap f**k.

I am not concerned about future laws because I know the girls I meet are neither trafficked or coerced. Anyone else who cant say that should take a look hard look at themselves.

LF

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However....the pursuit of this aim to eradicate trafficking does not excuse the lies and hype this government spouts to justify new and senseless laws...

True. I think it is widely agreed on this board that making something illegal is not going to stop it.

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According to some government figures there must be trafficked women in every town of any size in the country. Given that the police hardly ever find a trafficked woman on any of their raids, then these government figures would seem to indicate that we have one of the world's worst police forces. Which is it I wonder? Totally crap police unable to undertake an intelligence lead operation but just floundering around at random, or iffy government figures?

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have u been to soho? IMHO the vast majority of girls here appear to be trafficked. I have seen them arrive, with a surly male friend and leave with the samw. the police raided them a few years back but then never again. who knows why? There is trafficking going on, and just coz u aint seen it doesn't mean itt don't happen. Like I say, go to soho and take ur head out of the sand

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have u been to soho? IMHO the vast majority of girls here appear to be trafficked. I have seen them arrive, with a surly male friend and leave with the samw. the police raided them a few years back but then never again. who knows why? There is trafficking going on, and just coz u aint seen it doesn't mean itt don't happen. Like I say, go to soho and take ur head out of the sand

So what have you done about it then? Have you called the police giving them the relevant information regarding which girls and which flats they work out of? If they are being trafficked you can help stop it and from your post it seems it has been going on for years so why have you not called the police before?

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We all know that the figures have been hyped up, but, just because YOU have not encountered trafficking personally does not mean it doesn't happen. It does. Even if only 10 girls a year are trafficked it's a shame, and it needs to be stopped.

Just like the investigative documentary on Boys Town was suppressed because the scandle involves too many people in important places, leaving the majority of society in the dark. It happened and maybe is happening still.

Closing your eyes to such attrocities does not nul and void them.

I hear some punters are a little heavy handed, beat girls up and leave without payment. It's never happened to me. But it does still happen.

I don't punt in Soho walkups or hang around street corners in Paddington or other red light areas and I have no experience of the street scene other than what I have witnessed.

My suspicion is that most street girls work for drugs rather than for pimps, but this is certainly the area where vulnerable women are most likely to be exploited and cruelly treated.

I don't think anyone questions the immorality of trafficking, just the extent to which it goes on. I am not closing my eyes to anything. I am simply stating that in my wide ranging use of the sex industry in this country I have seen absolutely no evidence of a widespread epidemic of women being forced into prostitution.

As I only pay to have sex in 'respectable' establishments my eyes may be being shielded from the harsh realities of life for women the lower end of the sex market.

Some small number of women may be being pimped and trafficked. The numbers will be very small. It doesn't make it right but it is important to put things into perspective.

If the laws stop this all well and good. I personally believe it will have no effect whatever on the vicious minority and be used rather to attack the non-exploitative majority, which are more visible and easier to 'clean' away.

Government postures on morals are always humbug, always have been, always will be. The war on drugs is a phantom war. I see little reason to suppose this will be any different.

The statistics used by the government in this matter remind me nothing more of the lies and fantasies used by the UK and US governments to justify the illegal war In Iraq. We soon discovered there were no WMDs or elebarorate lairs used by Bin Laden or other James Bond style villains bent on world domination.

When I am being told lies by the government ( an habitual circumstance ) I tend to look for the ulterior motive hiding behind the twaddle.

In Iraq it was obvious. Bush and Co. wanted control of the oil. They still do, hence their current stance towards Iran.

What is our sainted government's real motive here?

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Yes I did report it. does thaat matter? Its still happening

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Do you think that the obliging oriental masseuses at the largely legitimate herbal medicine places will be classed as trafficked?

I'm sure some of them are not 100% legal in terms of their right to stay.

Even if they are, will they be seen as trafficked prostitutes if they are brought over from Asia to massage in this country and they're kind enough (for a small consideration) to wank their clients at the end of a massage?

Is HR prostitution in this brave new world of puritanism?

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Yes I did report it. does thaat matter? Its still happening

Shooter! Nice to see you back.

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Do you think that the obliging oriental masseuses at the largely legitimate herbal medicine places will be classed as trafficked?

I'm sure some of them are not 100% legal in terms of their right to stay.

It generally hasn't been that difficult for the Chinese to come over here to work, in all sorts of legitimate jobs on short-term work permits and visas. However, just this month the immigration and working rules have all changed, so this may have a major effect.

Have you any idea how many young Oriental women are already working in shops and catering establishments in London? Thousands of them. There are lots of students here too. Any of them that want a bit of spare cash can easily be recruited right here in the UK. And many are, simply through word of mouth or newspaper ads, to work voluntarily.

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Possibly another 18 year old found trafficked in Hyde Road in Paignton Devon. She fled the flat where she was imprisoned and found refuge in a pub. Seems the same flat had been investigated during pentameter. The Police are asking other women and punters who have visited the flat for help.

I would expect if the new law was in place, then no punter would come forward.

The Article

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Possibly another 18 year old found trafficked in Hyde Road in Paignton Devon. She fled the flat where she was imprisoned and found refuge in a pub. Seems the same flat had been investigated during pentameter. The Police are asking other women and punters who have visited the flat for help.

I would expect if the new law was in place, then no punter would come forward.

The Article

I am sure you are right, Elrond. It would be worth all of us writing to Anthony Steen, MP, making the point that the police wont' get the help from the public they need once Smith's law has gone through. If you'd gone into this brothel and not realised the girls were trafficked, would you come forward to help if you knew you'd get done? Would you trust the police to respect your anonymity? You could not blame them if they did not, as you have committed a crime (remember strict liability).

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If the laws stop this all well and good. I personally believe it will have no effect whatever on the vicious minority and be used rather to attack the non-exploitative majority, which are more visible and easier to 'clean' away.

Government postures on morals are always humbug, always have been, always will be. The war on drugs is a phantom war. I see little reason to suppose this will be any different.

The statistics used by the government in this matter remind me nothing more of the lies and fantasies used by the UK and US governments to justify the illegal war In Iraq. We soon discovered there were no WMDs or elebarorate lairs used by Bin Laden or other James Bond style villains bent on world domination.

When I am being told lies by the government ( an habitual circumstance ) I tend to look for the ulterior motive hiding behind the twaddle.

In Iraq it was obvious. Bush and Co. wanted control of the oil. They still do, hence their current stance towards Iran.

What is our sainted government's real motive here?

I bevieve that this is really nothing to do with protecting victims. Trafficking is already illegal as is having sex with someone against their will. New legislation as currently proposed is therefore completely unnecessary.

If they genuinely think that the stated large number of victims is true, why has the dedicated unit to investigate trafficking been disbanded? Possibly because their conclusion was that the true numbers are small?

I suspect that their real intention is to ultimately make all payment for sex illegal, as in the proposed amedment to the Criminal Justice and Imigration Bill earlier this year. Trafficking/coercion is just being used as a means to get legislation through. This could later be amended by simply removing any qualifying phrases, eg. delete 'for anothers gain', 'against ther will', to easily become a total ban.

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Possibly another 18 year old found trafficked in Hyde Road in Paignton Devon. She fled the flat where she was imprisoned and found refuge in a pub. Seems the same flat had been investigated during pentameter. The Police are asking other women and punters who have visited the flat for help.

I would expect if the new law was in place, then no punter would come forward.

The Article

This poor 18 year old only arrived in the country on Sunday. The arrested women are Czech.

The women, aged 21 and 38 and from the Czech Republic, are due to appear before Torbay magistrates this morning.

The police are still appealing for witnesses, but they are thinking about visiting men who went to the brothel. How do they know who visited, mobile phone call logs probably?

And he promised: "We will not take any action against these men. They will be listened to sympathetically and in complete confidence. They have nothing to fear.

"But I can say if they are reluctant to make contact we may well be knocking on their door as part of our inquiries and this personal visit may cause them some discomfort."

Who was the person who helped her originally, was it a punter?

'He added: "She was traumatised when we rescued her on Wednesday night after concerns had been expressed for her welfare."'

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This poor 18 year old only arrived in the country on Sunday. The arrested women are Czech.

The women, aged 21 and 38 and from the Czech Republic, are due to appear before Torbay magistrates this morning.

The police are still appealing for witnesses, but they are thinking about visiting men who went to the brothel. How do they know who visited, mobile phone call logs probably?

And he promised: "We will not take any action against these men. They will be listened to sympathetically and in complete confidence. They have nothing to fear.

"But I can say if they are reluctant to make contact we may well be knocking on their door as part of our inquiries and this personal visit may cause them some discomfort."

Who was the person who helped her originally, was it a punter?

'He added: "She was traumatised when we rescued her on Wednesday night after concerns had been expressed for her welfare."'

Another poor woman saved and at least the Police acted, at whatever speed. Apart from Mobiles, they could if they wish attempt to trace any punters by CCTV, car registration numbers, use of any prepaid public transport tickets paid for on a card, by asking the woman to try to identify the punter. That would take time to gather and cost out of the Polices budget, but is quite easy if she is able to i.d. the punters.

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