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SlickWilly

The Result From Norway

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I couldn't post this under my original thread  - Great News From Norway which focused on the promised review of its version of the Swedish anti sex worker/sex work law!

This is because the result is now in and it's insane - it has found in a nutshell that the law has lived up to its original mandate -

 

http://www.regjeringen.no/pages/38780386/Evaluering_sexkjoepsloven_2014.pdf

 

There is an oddly placed English summary pages 11 - 14

 

It's absurd as it is based on no valid statistics and when measured against the reality of life for a Norwegian sex worker -

 

http://sciencenordic.com/prostitutes-are-abused-hunt-criminals

 

 

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/politikk/Ap-og-SV-stotter-politiets-fremgangsmate-overfor-prostituerte-7253659.html#.U-q4jfldXz5

 

The last link notes the madness that while a punter faces a fine a sex worker can be thrown out of her accommodation! 

 

It also shows how tough it is to repeal such an insane law when it gets a grip on a society!

 

Also, here in Ireland, where an even tougher anti sex worker model proposal is doing the rounds, the main cheerleaders for it - Ruhama and the Immigrant Council Of Ireland are creaming their trousers with delight at this result and insisting on urgent implementation, which of course means increased state funding for them!

 

 

 

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Obviously the 2 links apart from the report above can be translated using Google translate, the report has the English executive summary included as pointed out!

 

A shocking report from cynical people who don't give a 3 cornered shite for sex workers! Note also bizarrely they have said the costs of an encounter for a punter have gone down!

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What nasty contradictory bullshit, no clear evidence of an increase in assaults  but it's clearly stated -

The   threshold   for   reporting   a violent    customer    to    the    police    also    seems    to    be    higher    after    the    law.    People    in prostitution   are   afraid   that   such   actions   will   come   back   to   halt   them   at   later   stages.

How Does this help sex workers?

Women    in    prostitution    use    the    term «buyer’s market»   to   address   this   tendency.   The   customer   is   now   afraid   of   being   caught   and   this   can   result   in   less   time   to   decide  whether   to   strike   a   deal   with   the   customer   or   not   as well    as    lower    prices.    The    latter    is    a    combination    of    a    more    nervous    market    and    a market   with   lower   demand   for   sexual   services.    

 
Oh and a right beaut -

Human    trafficking    is    a    part    of    this    rotating    market.    The    entry    into   prostitution   is   based   on   economic   motives.   Still,   the   prices   are   lower   than   before.

   

The law has been a disasterous failure! :wub:

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a  punter faces a fine a sex worker can be thrown out of her accommodation

 

 

As well as losing their home sex workers in Sweden also face:

 

- branded as unfit parents and have their children taken off them

 

- charged with "running a brothel" if they work together

 

- deported if they aren't local residents (even if they are EU residents)

 

- sexworkers in Sweden cannot receive STD testing anonymously

 

http://rt.com/news/sweden-eu-sex-europe-719/

http://lauraslifeandthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/sex-workers-response-stop.html

 

There is also a case of Asian women being denied access to a pub in Sweden- because they might be prostitutes. The women (who aren't prostitutes) tried to sue for discrimination, but the pub was cleared.

http://www.thelocal.se/20130912/50200

 

As for the clients- the clients who get caught usually pay a small fine and be on their way, and not one client who has gone to court has been sent to prison because the sexworkers always refuse to testify against them.

 

Social work resources are now scarce because attempting to enforce the law is so expensive.

 

Human trafficking is seen as the same as consenting sexwork in Sweden. This makes it impossible to identify the women/men who really are trafficked.

 

http://hivlawcommission.org/resources/report/FinalReport-Risks,Rights&Health-EN.pdf

 

http://scarletalliance.org.au/issues/swedish_model/Swedish_briefing/

 

 

Remind me again, who is the Swedish model supposed to protect?

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As well as losing their home sex workers in Sweden also face:

 

- branded as unfit parents and have their children taken off them

 

- charged with "running a brothel" if they work together

 

- deported if they aren't local residents (even if they are EU residents)

 

- sexworkers in Sweden cannot receive STD testing anonymously

 

http://rt.com/news/sweden-eu-sex-europe-719/

http://lauraslifeandthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/sex-workers-response-stop.html

 

There is also a case of Asian women being denied access to a pub in Sweden- because they might be prostitutes. The women (who aren't prostitutes) tried to sue for discrimination, but the pub was cleared.

http://www.thelocal.se/20130912/50200

 

As for the clients- the clients who get caught usually pay a small fine and be on their way, and not one client who has gone to court has been sent to prison because the sexworkers always refuse to testify against them.

 

Social work resources are now scarce because attempting to enforce the law is so expensive.

 

Human trafficking is seen as the same as consenting sexwork in Sweden. This makes it impossible to identify the women/men who really are trafficked.

 

http://hivlawcommission.org/resources/report/FinalReport-Risks,Rights&Health-EN.pdf

 

http://scarletalliance.org.au/issues/swedish_model/Swedish_briefing/

 

 

Remind me again, who is the Swedish model supposed to protect?

 

The only thing the Swedish model protects is the grossly inflated salaries of greedy NGO's.  :mad:

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From the ssb.no ( Norway's official statisticans ):

Year

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From the ssb.no website ( Norway's official statisticians ):

Year - Rapes Reported

2007 945

2008 944

2009 998

2010 938

2011 1075

2012 1116

2013 1136

 

This is against a backdrop of falling overall crime levels, see chart at this link

 

Now you'd be a fool to claim a confirmed causal link to the new sex purchase ban, especially as there's population growth, and trends relating to immigrants, but Sweden also has this trend of falling overall crime but rising rape reports.

 

I'd rather legislators didn't take the chance that there is no link to sex purchase policy.

 

On a funny note ( to me ) the Norwegian report contains this astonishing sentence:

"However, since the indoors market is less reduced than the outdoors market following

the law, we conclude that the share of indoors prostitution of the total prostitution market

has decreased."

Total logic fail there from the report writers.

Edited by bongo
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I only read the English summary, but you would wonder how many current active sex workers were interviewed for the report! My guess is probably none and at the end of the day the only people whose view really counts are current active voluntary sex workers!

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Obviously the 2 links apart from the report above can be translated using Google translate, the report has the English executive summary included as pointed out!

 

A shocking report from cynical people who don't give a 3 cornered shite for sex workers! Note also bizarrely they have said the costs of an encounter for a punter have gone down!

 

Normally, when demand falls prices also fall.

If prices fall sufficiently, some service providers will leave or become part time workers.  They will be the ones who have other viable employment opportunities and the necessary skills.

The market as a whole will therefore shrink. However, the service providers left will tend to be those with no other career options. I assume that trafficked sex workers in Norway will largely fall in this category and so they are likely to form an increasing proportion of the remaining market.

It is not clear from the report whether or not the total number of trafficked sex workers has increased, remained the same or declined since the law was changed.

In any event, they can be little doubt that the lot of the remaining service providers overall will be worse as a result of the legislation.   

Edited by Dancer

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This is only anecdotal.

 

I was in conversation with a Norwegian escort who works in the UK.  She never worked in Norway, but has friends there.  Her view is the law has been very damaging, and has been a pimps and traffickers charter.  She feels the there are more foreign controlled women working there than the total women selling sex before the law change..  With the foreign controlled women has come drugs and Heroin.   Oslo used to be a safe city is now dangerous in her view.  She visited  there recently and though happy to walk the streets of London in the evening (not selling sex I hasten to add), she was scared in Oslo, and would not venture out after dark.

 

Now I had not heard that, and always thought and still think these Northern countries are safe, so this came as quite a surprise to me.

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This is only anecdotal.

 

I was in conversation with a Norwegian escort who works in the UK.  She never worked in Norway, but has friends there.  Her view is the law has been very damaging, and has been a pimps and traffickers charter.  She feels the there are more foreign controlled women working there than the total women selling sex before the law change..  With the foreign controlled women has come drugs and Heroin.   Oslo used to be a safe city is now dangerous in her view.  She visited  there recently and though happy to walk the streets of London in the evening (not selling sex I hasten to add), she was scared in Oslo, and would not venture out after dark.

 

Now I had not heard that, and always thought and still think these Northern countries are safe, so this came as quite a surprise to me.

Central London or the city of Westminster has CCTV everywhere on the streets.

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This is only anecdotal.

 

I was in conversation with a Norwegian escort who works in the UK.  She never worked in Norway, but has friends there.  Her view is the law has been very damaging, and has been a pimps and traffickers charter.  She feels the there are more foreign controlled women working there than the total women selling sex before the law change..  With the foreign controlled women has come drugs and Heroin.   Oslo used to be a safe city is now dangerous in her view.  She visited  there recently and though happy to walk the streets of London in the evening (not selling sex I hasten to add), she was scared in Oslo, and would not venture out after dark.

 

Now I had not heard that, and always thought and still think these Northern countries are safe, so this came as quite a surprise to me.

Central London or at least City of Westminster streets have CCTV everywhere.

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I was casually scanning a google-translate version of the Norwegian report, and chanced on this commentary on our own United Kingdom at page 47:

 

5.6.3 United Kingdom - sharp decline in demand

Prostitutes in the UK report a poorer market than a few years ago. We now have 2 or 3 jobs daily, when once we had 8 or 9, which has led to lower demand for sexual services. The number of hits on ad pages has decreased. A popular ad page with 5,000 providers has had a decrease in clicks of around 30% ( The Economist 2013b ). The reason for the bad times in the UK sex market is primarily attributed to the UK economy and that average consumption has fallen by 4% since 2007. Buying sex is considered a luxury, food and rent comes first. The poorer economy in Europe also leads to more recruits to the sex market - this applies to immigrants, students and the newly unemployed. More prostitutes leads to reduced rates, since the new market offers lower prices than those established. Lower prices and lower earnings comes as a result of both increased supply and lower demand due to the economic downturn and lower private consumption.

 

The luxury market, on the other hand, is still able to maintain prices despite demand for discounts. It is claimed that the luxury prostitute who has tried lowering prices has raised them rapidly again after they've seen what kind of customers were attracted by the discounts

 

I nearly choked on my soup - what kind of people are the undesirable discount punters, the report doesn't say, but it's clear that something about them means some prostitutes set their prices to avoid them.

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I was casually scanning a google-translate version of the Norwegian report, and chanced on this commentary on our own United Kingdom at page 47:

 

5.6.3 United Kingdom - sharp decline in demand

Prostitutes in the UK report a poorer market than a few years ago. We now have 2 or 3 jobs daily, when once we had 8 or 9, which has led to lower demand for sexual services. The number of hits on ad pages has decreased. A popular ad page with 5,000 providers has had a decrease in clicks of around 30% ( The Economist 2013b ). The reason for the bad times in the UK sex market is primarily attributed to the UK economy and that average consumption has fallen by 4% since 2007. Buying sex is considered a luxury, food and rent comes first. The poorer economy in Europe also leads to more recruits to the sex market - this applies to immigrants, students and the newly unemployed. More prostitutes leads to reduced rates, since the new market offers lower prices than those established. Lower prices and lower earnings comes as a result of both increased supply and lower demand due to the economic downturn and lower private consumption.

 

The luxury market, on the other hand, is still able to maintain prices despite demand for discounts. It is claimed that the luxury prostitute who has tried lowering prices has raised them rapidly again after they've seen what kind of customers were attracted by the discounts

 

I nearly choked on my soup - what kind of people are the undesirable discount punters, the report doesn't say, but it's clear that something about them means some prostitutes set their prices to avoid them.

you would have to do this job to understand the term "undesirable" its different for all girls, we all have our own guide lines of what we find undesirable x

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Norwegian ban on buying sex affects immigrant women

With increased focus on human trafficking fighting prostitution has become a higher status issue in the police force.

But the police do not go after prostitution as such; they go after prostitutes with an immigrant background.

 

more here:

http://eng.kilden.forskningsradet.no/c52778/nyhet/vis.html?tid=88740

I get fobbed off by my Police Commissioner department every time I suggest the police are racist. Here's ample proof the police are racist when given the laws to implement. 

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Norwegian ban on buying sex affects immigrant women

With increased focus on human trafficking fighting prostitution has become a higher status issue in the police force.

But the police do not go after prostitution as such; they go after prostitutes with an immigrant background.

 

more here:

http://eng.kilden.forskningsradet.no/c52778/nyhet/vis.html?tid=88740

 

Exactly what is happening in Ireland, easy pickings.

 

The constant conflation of migrant sex workers with victims of trafficking doesn't help, either. 

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