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Dickydiver

Bbc3 Documentary - Prostitution - What's The Harm?

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Just watched the above named programme on BBC3 iPlayer and would say that it was one of the better balanced attempts to look at the sex business. Apart from the drunk lads on stag in Prague, it was largely free of the usual stereotypes and certainly had no hariddans screaming that every sex worker is an abused, trafficked victim and that all punters are actually rapists.

 

I was a little concerned when the prog began with a tour of the neon lights of Peter Street, as the slightly manic comedian Chris Dangerfield acted as a knowledgeable guide, for reporter Billie Portter, to the walk-ups without emphasising his rather addictive nature too much. Then to Prague; drunk lads and then 'uber- stagclub' owner whose only gaffe was offering Billie Porter the chance to take the place of the woman who was lying naked on the bar covered in fruit (you just knew what she was thinking about him!). Ended with a very honest interview with one of the women who emphasised it is her choice as the best way of providing for her family and that it is just a job.

 

Then another straight on session with students talking freely about how much more acceptable paying for sex is nowadays and then a couple of young blokes adding the economic logic of paying for a fantasy woman as against spending £'s in a nightclub in the hope of getting lucky. Oh, and then a bit on the AW site and its advertisers.

 

Next to Charlotte who has gone from dancing to web-caming and then to escorting and is clearly very happy with her life, has a good business brain and is earning pretty damn well (very revealing given recent topics elsewhere on this board). She makes it clear that it is a life/career choice for her, that she is aware of the potential physical and mental dangers and issues and that she feels she is capable of handling it where others may not.

 

Onto a good section about the UK's stupid and confusing prostitution laws (again with very open youngsters) which leads into how to run a brothel with ex-madam Becky Adams who gives Billie Porter a mistressclass with an emphasis on tea and biscuits which seems to be the most shocking part for our young reporter. Becky explains how, if she ran an orderly house, the police usually left her alone (though was shut down 6 times!) and, as others do in this prog, makes the point that the law, as it stands, actually endangers sex-workers.

 

Then onto a well-handled, and quite touching scene about street workers in Liverpool where Ann-Marie Foy was killed a few years back. Again, the outreach worker is matter of fact and quite level headed in making the point about the humanity of this situation. Then, if I was ever going to try a street worker, the interview with a woman who has broken free from that world, would stop me (and I hope anyone else) right in their tracks; a quite horrific description of dependency fuelled street work and the consequences. But, this section ends with the ACC responsible for National 'Prostitution policy' in Liverpool police probably going as far as he can in placing an official question mark over the current laws; he has to be guarded but refers to the Anzac Regulated Brothel experiment in positive terms.

 

Back to Charlotte, packing up after a lucrative 3 day tour. She, again emphasises the safety of working with another girl and the fact that she is potentially breaking the brothel law purely for choosing to protect herself. All in all, one of the most balanced media pieces on the subject of sex work, that I can think of and I'll be interested to see what others think (can I suggest that the programme is actually viewed first?).

 

Cheers - DD

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Yep, I saw this last night. Pretty balanced doc which focused on the views from the punter's and provider's perspective and treated it in a non-sensationalized way. Many engaging scenes in the doc which is well described by DD above. One of the most telling scenes was the pub quiz where the public misconception of the laws surrounding prostitution was well portrayed. The doc also pointed out how confusing the laws are and not only that but how these work against the safety of women.

 

All-in-all a very good and wide-ranging doc on the subject and well worth catching

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Well many will have seen this when first shown many months ago.

 

Becky Adams now runs business development courses  - openly based on the principles of being a successful madam and they go down a storm evidently.

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One of the most telling scenes was the pub quiz where the public misconception of the laws surrounding prostitution was well portrayed. 

 

Yep. I for one, am never sure whether or not two SP's sharing the same premises, but at different times, makes the place a brothel ? :unsure:

Maybe one for the Legalities & Legislation section ?

I thought the programme was slightly biased by the choice of SP featured in it  :angry:.  

All those tattoos and piercings had the effect of making her seem of a lesser standing than many others to me personally, or is that only my own dislike of such things clouding my judgement ?

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Kirkbyman - the two girls dont have to be working at the same time to make it a brothel.

Sorry. Mobile version wont let me quote.

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Yep. I for one, am never sure whether or not two SP's sharing the same premises, but at different times, makes the place a brothel ? :unsure:

Maybe one for the Legalities & Legislation section ?

I thought the programme was slightly biased by the choice of SP featured in it :angry:.

All those tattoos and piercings had the effect of making her seem of a lesser standing than many others to me personally, or is that only my own dislike of such things clouding my judgement ?

Yes it was just you.

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Yes it was just you.

 

You sure of that?

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You sure of that?

Personally I don't judge someone to have less standing because they have tattoos.

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I watched this doc on i-player yesterday. Very well-made and balanced. 

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I saw this and it was pretty balanced with no over dramatic views on the health risks and stigmas of doing this, it was almost shown as a fun normal thing. However the stag weekends i see as different to going for a 30min parlour app

Also puts into question the legality of some of these parlours which have multiple girls and maids at same flat

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Kirkbyman - the two girls dont have to be working at the same time to make it a brothel.

 

If this is true then every walk up in Soho (and elsewhere in the UK if they exist) must be illegal. However there never seems to be a any way of closing these on the grounds of illegality.

 

So the situation strongly implies that such establishments are legal.

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If this is true then every walk up in Soho (and elsewhere in the UK if they exist) must be illegal. However there never seems to be a any way of closing these on the grounds of illegality.

 

So the situation strongly implies that such establishments are legal.

 

As CP correctly says, the prostitutes don't have to be working at the premises at the same time to make them a brothel.

 

The police have the ability to close brothels down by serving closure notices under section 136 SOA 2003.

 

Several Soho walk-ups were closed in December last year:

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/22-arrested-as-met-swoops-on-soho-venues-allegedly-linked-to-sex-trafficking-and-rapes-8984378.html

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Kirkbyman - the two girls dont have to be working at the same time to make it a brothel.

Sorry. Mobile version wont let me quote.

 

Presumably this means that any "duo" meating ( sic :) ) immediately makes the premises in which it takes place into "a brothel" too ?  ( or more than a duo, such as "parties" etc. )

I believe I'm right in thinking that this renders the girls working together liable to prosecution for being in / running / profiting from a brothel, but the punter has not actually committed an offence by being there ?

Maybe this should move to the "Legal" section ?

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As CP correctly says, the prostitutes don't have to be working at the premises at the same time to make them a brothel.

 

The police have the ability to close brothels down by serving closure notices under section 136 SOA 2003.

 

Several Soho walk-ups were closed in December last year:

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/22-arrested-as-met-swoops-on-soho-venues-allegedly-linked-to-sex-trafficking-and-rapes-8984378.html

 

This isn't evidence that the premises were closed because they were brothels. The article refers to "brothels, three sex shops and two lap-dancing clubs.

 

The premises appear to have been closed because of suspected sex slave trafficking - nothing to do with two girls sharing the same premises.

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Presumably this means that any "duo" meating ( sic :) ) immediately makes the premises in which it takes place into "a brothel" too ?  ( or more than a duo, such as "parties" etc. )

I believe I'm right in thinking that this renders the girls working together liable to prosecution for being in / running / profiting from a brothel, but the punter has not actually committed an offence by being there ?

Maybe this should move to the "Legal" section ?

If someone is in 'charge' of the other woman/premises then yes.

 

This is why I won't/don't arrange to work with anyone else, and some men don't realise this hence the 'can you arrange for another woman' type messages, which are quickly retracted when I tell them I don't do that, partly because it's illegal.

 

Punters do not currently commit an offence by buying sex, and there is no offence of being in or even working in a brothel. The only offence is managing or assisting in managing the brothel.

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Even if 2 or more SPs share the same premises on different hours/days, it's considered as a brothel. Not relevant IMO but it's the law.

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This isn't evidence that the premises were closed because they were brothels. The article refers to "brothels, three sex shops and two lap-dancing clubs.

 

The premises appear to have been closed because of suspected sex slave trafficking - nothing to do with two girls sharing the same premises.

 

As Ruth said above: it's a criminal offence to keep or manage or assist in the management of a brothel (sections 33/33A Sexual Offences Act 1956).

 

The police can shut a brothel using:

 

1. Sections 11A -11L Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003, in the case of alleged nuisance to members of the public. For example:

 

http://www.luton-dunstable.co.uk/Brothel-Wellington-Road-Luton-closed-police/story-23667605-detail/story.html

 

 

 

2. Sections 136A-136R Sexual Offences Act 2003. The police usually use section 53 (controlling for gain) as the "specific prostitution offence" as that's the easiest to prove.

 

For example:

 

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/police-shut-down-brothel-kenton-7756212

 

 

The CPS have a high success rate in court. Most people don't contest the case and the magistrates usually rubber stamp the order. If the police want a brothel shut, it's quite rare that they don't succeed. They've lost a couple of cases in Soho over the last few years but elsewhere they rarely lose.

 

There's more information in the "Legalities and Legislation" section including:

 

http://www.punternet.com/forum/index.php/topic/33622-police-raids-on-soho-flats/

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I got something right, hurrah. :D You have trained me well Silverado.

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As Ruth said above: it's a criminal offence to keep or manage or assist in the management of a brothel (sections 33/33A Sexual Offences Act 1956).

 

The police can shut a brothel using:

 

1. Sections 11A -11L Anti-social Behaviour Act 2003, in the case of alleged nuisance to members of the public. For example:

 

http://www.luton-dunstable.co.uk/Brothel-Wellington-Road-Luton-closed-police/story-23667605-detail/story.html

 

 

 

2. Sections 136A-136R Sexual Offences Act 2003. The police usually use section 53 (controlling for gain) as the "specific prostitution offence" as that's the easiest to prove.

 

For example:

 

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/police-shut-down-brothel-kenton-7756212

 

 

The CPS have a high success rate in court. Most people don't contest the case and the magistrates usually rubber stamp the order. If the police want a brothel shut, it's quite rare that they don't succeed. They've lost a couple of cases in Soho over the last few years but elsewhere they rarely lose.

 

There's more information in the "Legalities and Legislation" section including:

 

http://www.punternet.com/forum/index.php/topic/33622-police-raids-on-soho-flats/

 

I still see no evidence that 2 girls using the same premises at different times ever being used as the basis for any authorities bringing charges.

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This doc was repeated again last night - first time I'd seen it, very interesting.

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