hans66

A Dutch Documentary About Prostitution

9 posts in this topic

A journalist, Jojanneke van den Berge, has worked 2 years to get information about prostitution. She talked with prostitutes and with pimps. Here is the video:

 

 

and I translated it in English:

 

Translation trailer:
 
V (Voice-over): In the Netherlands, prostitution is considered as a normal profession.
H1 (hooker): This room is only for fucking and blowjobs.
H2: We are only prostitutes. At the same time we are psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers.
V: There is more and more criticism against our system. A part of the prostituties would be doing this job involuntarily.
H3: Everybody acts as if they like it. And as we are there to please the men. Bladibladibla.
V: I want to listen the stories of the women themselves.
H3: There is nobody who really talks about it, what they really think of.
H4 (crying): It destroys you.
V: Prostitution. Isn't that freedom and happiness...
H5: Do not film us!
...pimp.
J (Jojanneke): Are you sure?
V: ...or real criminal business?
J: How many clients you have each day in average?
H6: Between 20 and 30 generally.
J: 20 and 30...
J (to a pimp) How many money do the girls get from you?
P (pimp): It depends what kind of girl it is. If it is a sheep, you give her 10th of the money. But... if you have an intelligent girl, then you have to give her the half, 50 %. You have to, otherwise you will lose her.
H6: Beating them up. Beating with fists, with belt buckles. In every way.
J: Pimp that hit...
P: Yes, you have to. That is a part of the job. Yes, that is. Of course. Showing who is the boss.
J: A dominant pimp [?] girl, in a hotel.
M (man she is phoning with): At home.
J: At home. With you at home? Or at my home?
M: I don't call that a pimp. It is collaboration.
W (woman): I am really in shock. I cannot really see it. It makes me sick! Ehm...
J: Are there limits to the porn world?
M2 (man): No.
J: No.
W2: Aaaaahh!
(English)
M3: I don't think that there isn't much voluntary prostitution. The majority are women from Eastern Europe.
J: Can you buy girls? Does that happen?
P: That happens every day!
M3: 70 % does this involuntarily in some way.
J: How many clients visited you?
H7: About 66000.
J: How voluntary is the choice for prostitution...
H8: I chose for it, but I didn't know I have to give all my money.
J: ...and is the job as joyful as we all think?
C (client): How much?
H9: 35 euros. Fucking and a blowjob.
I (interviewer): That was heavy?
J: I found it really... really heavy!
 
Text:
Jojanneke in Prostitution, starting at 6th of January 2015 each week
Visit the website: eo.nl/jojanneke
 
Follow Jojanneke at Twitter:
@jojannekevdb
 
The funny part are the follows:
- She did not talk with happy hookers, these are working girls that do the job at free will. She also avoids and refuses to talk with them;
- She also refused to talk with the Prostitutie-Informatiecentrum (Prostitution Information Center);
- She also states that the Openbaar Ministerie (Public Prosecutor) said that 70 % of the WGs are forced to do it. The truth is that 70 % of the cases of human trafficking resulted into sentencing to prison or otherwise;
- There is a report where 94 % of the prostitutes in De Wallen got a questionnaire. Several questions are asked about their job, their clients and their relation to the Amsterdam municipality. About 90 % of the prostitutes do this job voluntarily. About 80 % have no problems with clients or are positive about them. A majority are angry to the previous mayor of Amsterdam, Eberhard van der Laan and Lodewijk Assscher (now Dutch vice-president), because several De Wallen windows have been closed as part of Project 1012. This project is based on lies about prostitution, spreaded by Patricia Perquin (fake prostitute but actually a journalist) and Perdiep Ramesar (a journalist of a Dutch newspaper). Jojanneke van den Berge will likely be the third who lies about facts.
 

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Thanks for that Hans. It's a bit difficult to follow the translation, but I assume there is a move to change the laws in the Netherlands and this is propaganda by the abolitionists?

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There are a lot of misconceptions about prostitution, voluntarily or coerced, and how to tackle human trafficking en exploit.

 

The real goal (what I guess) is to limit prostitution or annihilate it buy closing several De Wallen windows, and high estimations of human trafficking and coersion is a way to sell this policy. The closing of windows is a part of Project 1012. The number 1012 refers to the zip code (or postal code) of the De Wallen area.

 

A prostitute assumes that the vice president of the Netherlands Lodewijk Asscher want to introduce the Swedish model, so the previous policy was supposed to fail. In the meantime I read what happened to Jasmine and Dora. One is a Swedish WG, the other a Turkish one. Both are murdered because they were sex workers. The Swedish model does not protect the sex workers, it infantilises them and their rights are severely limited.

 

It is propaganda from the EO (Evangelische Omroep, strict Christian BC) and members of the PvdA (Partij van de Arbeid, Party of Labour) and ChristenUnie (Christian Union). The EO and CU are severely against prostitution. This program is a collaboration between EO and Jojanneke van den Berge (who herself isn't a part of the EO).

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This probably belongs in a different part of the board. I will move it

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While watching I was a bit distracted by a discussion on another forum. There is no consideration to punters whatsoever on that forum.

 

They say I ignore the fact that every woman in the prostitution has a history of misery, and that the punters should be aware of that. I am depicted as someone who has no conscience to pay for a sex worker. No WG ever enjoys the company of a punter, all she does is acting. And I... I am blind for the truth.

 

There are explorations about that from the prostitutes 2 % would be coerced and the other 95 % is happy with their work (3 % did not answer to that question). Well... that is fake, because the truth is quite different. No WG enjoys to work in prostitution, and all punters are evil, including me. Every WG goes into prostitution for whatever reason, financial problems, mentally twisted and the like, but never because they think they may enjoy the work.

 

They tell me to read books and follow internet links, and believe those, and ignore the links I came with. By telling I don't see the difference why assuming the one as true and the other I see, I would be an ostrich.

 

If punters are not able to get sex without paying, they should have no sex. And that should be possible, because nobody ever died prematurely because of lack of sex, or because sex is missing.

 

That is the storm that was blown into my face. I thought: "What the hell is going on?"

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While watching I was a bit distracted by a discussion on another forum. There is no consideration to punters whatsoever on that forum.

 

They say I ignore the fact that every woman in the prostitution has a history of misery, and that the punters should be aware of that. I am depicted as someone who has no conscience to pay for a sex worker. No WG ever enjoys the company of a punter, all she does is acting. And I... I am blind for the truth.

 

There are explorations about that from the prostitutes 2 % would be coerced and the other 95 % is happy with their work (3 % did not answer to that question). Well... that is fake, because the truth is quite different. No WG enjoys to work in prostitution, and all punters are evil, including me. Every WG goes into prostitution for whatever reason, financial problems, mentally twisted and the like, but never because they think they may enjoy the work.

 

They tell me to read books and follow internet links, and believe those, and ignore the links I came with. By telling I don't see the difference why assuming the one as true and the other I see, I would be an ostrich.

 

If punters are not able to get sex without paying, they should have no sex. And that should be possible, because nobody ever died prematurely because of lack of sex, or because sex is missing.

 

That is the storm that was blown into my face. I thought: "What the hell is going on?"

The assumptions made are massive and sweeping, it's as if we are all clones and not individuals and defined by the work.

Edited by Strawberry
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The controversy continues.

 

Jojanneke asserts that there are prostitutes of minor age (lower than 18 years old) in Groningen (a city in the northeastern part of the Netherlands). The mayor of Groningen says: "There are no prostitutes of minor age, paying rent for the windows, because that is what the police reported. The police has very strict checks and look at the pasports and other documents to check their ages."

 

The assertion that there would be minor aged prostitutes came from a pimp who was interviewed in the program. Many people against prostitution, takes this as a real pimp and think that the Groningen police doesn't know what happens behind the windows. People in favour of prostitution and many prostitutes themselves said that it is a fake pimp.

 

Another point is the amount of coerced prostitutes. There are some reports (based on questionnairs that has been sent to a group of 94 prostitutes and one to a group of 354 prostitutes). One is Schone Schijn saying that between 50 and 90 percent would be coerced. But where is that based on? 18 police officers has been asked. 6 came with an estimation between 50 and 90. 12 says that it is too risky to give an estimation, so they refused to do so.

 

The Public Prosecutor (the Openbaar Ministerie) reported that from the cases of human trafficking 70 % has resulted into a sentence. Jojanneke interpreted that as: 70 % of the prostitutes has been coerced. In the second part of the documentary sequence, one of the officers, Werner ten Kate, reported that 70 % has been coerced. Thinking about the report by the Openbaar Ministerie, I think Werner ten Kate is talking bullshit about this.

 

These things can be checked and found back on Twitter and in Dutch sources, but most of the reports have been written in Dutch.

 

The municipality of Amsterdam is now thinking about asking clients to help recognize coercion. Clients are not able to screen WGs in that way, because until now only specialized police officers are able to recognize it by thoroughly asking. The solution that Amsterdam has, is giving lessons to punters to recognize coercion. In  case of that, they could abort the visit immediately and report it to the police. Nice, but some punters are (partially) disabled in recognizing coercion. In that case I think of punters with an autism spectrum disorder. That can even be harder.

 

By applying the Coercion Recognition Act (article 273g of laws about crimes) or by applying the Swedish model it is no longer possible to report coercion, since the punter is already violating the law before he concludes that the WG has been coerced. That leads to prosecution.

 

In the Netherlands prostitution is legal, but effectively it is criminalized. Women that want to be a WG, are faced with very high requirements. The number of brothels and windows that are legal and not erazed is too few for those that want to be a sexworker. The window and brother owner get too much power and can demand whatever they wish. Other women will go to illegal prostitution, where they are more vulnerable to coercion and human trafficking.

 

The Dutch government want to do something about human trafficking, but the measures it takes against them, actually encourages it.

Edited by hans66

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Jojanneke van den Berge made a hilarious statement. She said that she had an interview with a "high escort" as she called it.

 

It took me some hours to find out what the correct term ("high class escort") is and what she does and how she differs from a regular escort. Some hours!! But she needed TWO YEARS and still she doesn't know the correct term... How low can she go?

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