Uncle Pokey

A Lawyer's Moot

8 posts in this topic

Let “X” be a service, an activity.

The purchase by an individual of X is newly deemed, by legislation, to be a criminal offence.

The sale of X by an individual is not nor is deemed to be an offence.

 X is purchased from B by A.

Is not then B aiding and abetting the (new) crime committed by A?

Or is it the case that because the selling of X by B is not of itself a criminal offence that, in the transaction postulated, only the purchaser is guilty of an offence?

And if so, by what authority precisely are general matters of aiding and abetting (or even conspiring) set aside?

 

Discuss

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In this case, the law is definitely an ass....and is dutifully being fucked like one.

 

If you compare the sale of one's own body to that of another commodity, this does not hold up fairly.

 

To knowingly sell something that is illegal to buy should, technically speaking, be illegal itself. So it's aiding and abetting on all counts.

 

In turn it makes this law utterly stupid. Instead of regulating the industry and thus making it far safer, it is making the procurement of such 'commodities' far more illicit.

 

:)

Edited by earlgreyman

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i'll let this run awhile whilst I take a well-earned holiday in another jurisdiction.

Have fun folks.

UP

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<< Is not then B aiding and abetting the (new) crime committed by A?  >>

 

The draftsmen of the NI legislation have thought of that:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nia/2015/2/contents/enacted

 

Clause 15, paragraph (5) says:

 

(5) B does not commit an offence by doing anything which (apart from this paragraph) would amount to—
(a)aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an offence under this Article by A;
(b)conspiring with A to commit an offence under this Article; or
©an offence under Part 2 of the Serious Crime Act 2007 (encouraging or assisting offences) in relation to the commission of an offence under this Article by A.”.

 

There are some practical issues with the NI legislation, like the amount of police resource it would take to get a conviction, particularly if the WG did not testify (NI currently has major public-spending problems). If there are any lawyers reading this thread, I would like to hear their views on this legislation, particularly the point about whether a consentual transaction can be legal for the seller but not the buyer. (I am thinking about similar criminal situations, such as selling stolen goods, drug dealing etc.). This clause 15 is in "PART 2 OTHER EXPLOITATION OFFENCES". so if a WG (person B did testify  and said she was not exploited would the case against A fail?

 

The definition of payment is troubling:  “payment” means any financial advantage to B, or any person other than B, including the discharge of an obligation to pay or the provision of goods or services. So if a lady (person B books a table at a restaurant, and has a meal with  A.  A agrees to pay for the meal (which was B's obligation because she booked the table) and B agrees to have sex with A, would A be guilty under this act?

Edited by Dave451
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I don't know much about law, but do know that the most effective way to get bad laws changed is to break them:

-If women had only campaigned politely for the vote they wouldn't have it

-If no-one had ever had an abortion it would still be illegal

-If no-one had ever engaged in rear view pleasures, homosexuality and sodomy would still be banned

 

So go out and pay for sexy times you naughty boys of punternet, and plead not guilty if charged. When the magistrate sees you with your cheeky face, and your smile of denial, and looks at the wafer thin prosecution file, because nice girls want to keep their nice customers and won't testify, then this morality cloud of illusion will be blown away on the lagan breeze.

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This is why I can't stand lawyers.

It would be simpler if working in sex industry covered by employment regulations, including those relating to self employment.

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Unfortunately for Canadian fundaMentalist PM Stephen Harper and his justice minister who is also fundaMentalist, their recently introduced sex worker hating insanity into Canadian law, along those lines to an extent, effective from AFAIK, December 6, 2014, will definitely fail on the grounds that under The Canadian Constitution everybody is guaranteed equality before the law and that's written down in black and white! 

Unfortunately, ye don't have a written constitution in the UK!

BTW The Canadian Supreme Court threw out almost all prostitution related laws as they clearly put sex workers lives at risk and mandated fudaMENTAList Harper to bring in appropriate legislation and he and his ass hole buddies have done the exact opposite, so it will be thrown out on those grounds also!

But that's Canada!

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I have returned to the UK and feel rather silly for not having realised that, as Dave kindly points out, my question is dealt with in the NI legislation to which I rarely have to resort to and thus missed.

I still, though, have difficulty with legislation that legitimises the complicity of an individual not under duress in a crime committed by another.

Dave's comments about Police resource are totally on point. The situation in England is the same in effect and here PC Plod pay scant regard to the punter who inadvertently books a coerced girl for the quite obvious reason that if the girl is coerced and the police were aware then why didn't they act earlier? Neither have they the resources to get too involved.

I'm hoping that Labour don't get in all the same.

Uncle Pokey

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