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SlickWilly

1St Arrest Of A Punter Under N. Ireland New Law

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The Swedish type model law i.e. criminalize the punter and crucify the sex worker was introduced in the highly dysfuctional still statelet of Northern Ireland on June 1! Thus becoming the first part of the UK to criminalize a punter engaging with a consenting sex worker in private!

There had been no arrests under until now -

 

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/first-arrest-made-under-new-ni-offence-of-paying-for-sex-34173495.html

 

This anti sex worker type of law is also on the verge of being passed in The Republic, except it's even more severe and will be much more likely to be enforced!

 

Hopefully this chap as long as he has not been with a forced sex worker will challenge this insane law and win!

Incidentally 3 sex workers were arrested under the insane brothel rule in this particular case!

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An arrest is not a conviction. Anecdotally, in Sweden if you insist on not taking a caution, that you're not guilty and are prepared to be taken to magistrates court or whatever it's called there, then the police will drop the charge. It's a good law for punters as the determined ones get lower prices, and risks of being found guilty are low if you deny everything and don't take the caution.

Sadly this case shows those disadvantaged by the law are still those workers trying to earn a living who share premises for entirely practical reasons.

Thanks for the link.

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This story also appeared, almost word-for-word in the Belfast Telegraph but very little detail is available yet. The Chief Constable said the raid was by the trafficking unit, but perhaps we will learn more about this if and when the people arrested are brought to trial.

 

I don't agree with Bongo that this is a good law for Punters. Top priority should be safety for both WGs and punters and any law that tends to drive sex work underground has to be bad for this. Secondly, there is no evidence that the law in NI has reduced prices.

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The three women who were arrested were most probably sex workers who have chosen to work together for safety. Women who choose to work together are prosecuted for pimping offenses even though they are sex workers not pimps. The same thing happens in Britain and in Sweden. So it is not true that sex workers aren't prosecuted in Sweden. This is what the proponents of the Swedish law always say, that the sex workers don't get arrested. It's deceitful for them to say that.

 

In Sweden sex workers are also evicted from their homes, and there are other punishments. Women are punished more severely in Sweden than in Britain. Everybody should know that. People like Julie Bindel know that, but they can con well-meaning people into thinking that the Swedish system is kind to women.

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In Sweden, the notion that women who work in the sex industry are effectively mentally ill and are willing Collaborators in their own oppression has been successfully sublimated into public consciousness - Stocholm Syndrome! This is extremely wrong and it's one of the reasons why I view laws such as The Swedish Model as more dangerous for sex workers than punters, far more!

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In Sweden sex workers are also evicted from their homes, and there are other punishments. Women are punished more severely in Sweden than in Britain. Everybody should know that. People like Julie Bindel know that, but they can con well-meaning people into thinking that the Swedish system is kind to women.

I live in Sweden and know the scene. It is not illegal for a woman to prostitute and such women are not treated as criminals, nor punished, let alone 'severely'. Also, if they are doing the business from their own home they are not evicted but if they are hiring a place, the landlord might give a notice to quit.

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In Sweden, the notion that women who work in the sex industry are effectively mentally ill and are willing Collaborators in their own oppression has been successfully sublimated into public consciousness - Stocholm Syndrome! This is extremely wrong and it's one of the reasons why I view laws such as The Swedish Model as more dangerous for sex workers than punters, far more!

As I wrote in my previous post, I live in Sweden and know the scene. There is no sublimation of the kind you are talking about in public consciousness at large in Sweden. Also, you seem to have misunderstood 'Stockholm Syndrome' which refers to the agreeing of a woman, taken hostage by a criminal, to his  sexual demands for giving himself up to the police. This happened in an actual hostage drama in Stockholm several years ago. However, the woman involved has never made public what really happened between her and the criminal.

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The PSNI have decide not to charge any of those arrested, but have issued them all with cautions. I wonder what they would have done if any of those arrested had refused the offer of a caution.

 

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/northern-ireland-news/psni-decide-not-to-charge-suspects-under-assembly-s-trafficking-law-1-7071426

Thanks for posting this Carnival. It is clear from this, that PSNI cannot enforce the Act that outlaws an agreement between consenting adults to sell/buy sexual services. They rightly point out that if the sex worker is working under duress then rape charges could be brought against the client. Of course this is nothing to do with the Act as the crime of rape pre-dates it by a long way. This would also create an environment in which it would be more difficult for those establishments that use traffiked workers to operate.

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I live in Sweden and know the scene. It is not illegal for a woman to prostitute and such women are not treated as criminals, nor punished, let alone 'severely'. Also, if they are doing the business from their own home they are not evicted but if they are hiring a place, the landlord might give a notice to quit.

Yes I'd read that in Sweden it's a criminal offence to let a property to a prostitute, and that the police may have a word with the landlord if they are aware this is taking place. Must make it difficult to rent a separate place to work from.

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Uniman, The law for sex workers who work together is similar to the brothel laws in Ireland and The UK. antd hey are criminalised in that instance! The legal burden of proof to gain a criminal conviction is lower in Sweden than in these islands.

Pye Jaccobsen would not agree with your assessment of sex work in Sweden, which is the most radical feminazied country in the world!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLfTaXooE4Y

Also here is a video on how this law is enforced in Sweden -

 

 

The Prostitution Unit of the Stockholm Police in Sweden arrests a man for the buying of sex according to the so-called sex purchase law in Sweden which criminalizes the buying of sex but not the selling. Clip was originally broadcast in the Swedish TV-show called "Crime of the Week" in 2014.

This client is caught out because the police ask him her name when he leaves and the name he gave them was her working name (obviously not her real name). He admitted to it and was given a fine. Good job she was working alone or she would have been arrested too (yes that's right, just like in the UK it is illegal to sell sex in Sweden/Ireland in a brothel).
There's certainly some prima facie evidence as has been mentioned that she is a victim of trafficking! The Swedish so called police, wouldn't give a shit about that as this law guarantees that trafficking, nasty pimping and psychotic clients will flourish! The Swedish police are also pre-programmed by Swedish society into believing that female sex workers are all essentially mentally ill! angryfire.gif
It has been suggested that the punters mistake was his admission, but the punter will know he will be arrested in any case (also have his DNA taken and compared to all DNA on outstanding rapes, child molestation and murders by the sex police!), he will also be aware that his non admission of guilt will encourage the Police to put pressure on the lady e.g. confiscation of earnings oh and yes, threats to put her children into care (after all she is perceived by these nut jobs to be the one who is mentally ill!). mad.gif 
Incidently those Swedish Police would easily pass for Knackers here in Ireland!
Will we end up on 'Crimewatch' at some stage in the future?mad.gif

 

 

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20 hours ago, SlickWilly said:

Uniman, The law for sex workers who work together is similar to the brothel laws in Ireland and The UK. antd hey are criminalised in that instance! The legal burden of proof to gain a criminal conviction is lower in Sweden than in these islands.

Pye Jaccobsen would not agree with your assessment of sex work in Sweden, which is the most radical feminazied country in the world!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLfTaXooE4Y

Also here is a video on how this law is enforced in Sweden -

 

 

The Prostitution Unit of the Stockholm Police in Sweden arrests a man for the buying of sex according to the so-called sex purchase law in Sweden which criminalizes the buying of sex but not the selling. Clip was originally broadcast in the Swedish TV-show called "Crime of the Week" in 2014.

This client is caught out because the police ask him her name when he leaves and the name he gave them was her working name (obviously not her real name). He admitted to it and was given a fine. Good job she was working alone or she would have been arrested too (yes that's right, just like in the UK it is illegal to sell sex in Sweden/Ireland in a brothel).
There's certainly some prima facie evidence as has been mentioned that she is a victim of trafficking! The Swedish so called police, wouldn't give a shit about that as this law guarantees that trafficking, nasty pimping and psychotic clients will flourish! The Swedish police are also pre-programmed by Swedish society into believing that female sex workers are all essentially mentally ill! angryfire.gif
It has been suggested that the punters mistake was his admission, but the punter will know he will be arrested in any case (also have his DNA taken and compared to all DNA on outstanding rapes, child molestation and murders by the sex police!), he will also be aware that his non admission of guilt will encourage the Police to put pressure on the lady e.g. confiscation of earnings oh and yes, threats to put her children into care (after all she is perceived by these nut jobs to be the one who is mentally ill!). mad.gif 
Incidently those Swedish Police would easily pass for Knackers here in Ireland!
Will we end up on 'Crimewatch' at some stage in the future?mad.gif

 

 

Unwittingly you are actually supportng me. The video you refer to is about clients being criminalized. What  I pointed out was that it is not illegal in Sweden for a woman to sell sex and therefore she cannot be branded as a criminal on that account, but the client is a criminal. It is an asymmetric law but there it is!

If a woman selling sex is a trafficked one she is not criminal because of that but this is somewhat beside the point I was making.

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13 hours ago, Uniman said:

Unwittingly you are actually supportng me. The video you refer to is about clients being criminalized. What  I pointed out was that it is not illegal in Sweden for a woman to sell sex and therefore she cannot be branded as a criminal on that account, but the client is a criminal. It is an asymmetric law but there it is!

If a woman selling sex is a trafficked one she is not criminal because of that but this is somewhat beside the point I was making.

She may not be legally classed as a criminal, but it certainly seems to me that in practice in many if not most cases she will be treated as though she is a criminal by many agencies and individuals. That's the invidiousness of the Swedish model - it allows the anti-sexworker ideologues to persecute sexworkers under the guise of "protecting" and "saving" them.

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21 hours ago, Uniman said:

Unwittingly you are actually supportng me. The video you refer to is about clients being criminalized. What  I pointed out was that it is not illegal in Sweden for a woman to sell sex and therefore she cannot be branded as a criminal on that account, but the client is a criminal. It is an asymmetric law but there it is!

If a woman selling sex is a trafficked one she is not criminal because of that but this is somewhat beside the point I was making.

Unicorn,

to reiterate my point as in The UK and Ireland, while indies are not breaking the law, if 2 or more sex workers are working from the same location, they are under brothel keeping laws! Where street work exists and in Sweden it's usually far to cold, a sex worker most likely is not breaking the law.

The Swedish model Law is ostensibly against the punter, but because, it drives the business underground and puts sex workers under much more stress and danger, it is actually very much intended to make them suffer and indeed suffer more!

A slap on the wrist fine for the punter who as in this video engaged with a suspected trafficked woman, while the pigs wait outside her apartment for her to be continually 'raped' (if she is trafficked), not intervening to stop it, but continuously taking fines off her punters!

Tell me who suffers most under the scenario in the video?

You seem to think it's a good positive law?

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The Swedish video looked very staged to me – were we watching cops and a punter or actors?

Putting my scepticism to one side, the video highlights another problem with the Swedish approach to law on prostitution. The ‘police’ were acting on information received which lead them to believe the girl in the film was vulnerable – trafficked, under aged, coerced etc. was suggested. They had the opportunity to enter the apartment and make her safe yet they only concerned themselves with nicking punters. They showed no sign of acting to safeguard the interests of the working girl, even though they said, on the way to the operation, that: ‘something is not right’.

This is quite understandable, because police forces are measured on the number of arrests they make so of course it is better for them to nick several punters rather than to safeguard a sex worker who may be vulnerable. This is diametrically opposed to the stated view of those who support Swedish type laws and say that such laws are designed to protect sex workers. Clearly this fundamental objective is not being met, if the video is to be believed.  

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I've always wondered what happens when the lady working under the Nordic model is asked "So is what you do legal?".

Having been in that situation myself as part of interviews for some of the other things I am involved with, I do wonder how on earth it would sound if I said "Yes, but the clients, they commit a crime by seeing me".

Edited by Strawberry
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18 hours ago, Strawberry said:

I've always wondered what happens when the lady working under the Nordic model is asked "So is what you do legal?".

Having been in that situation myself as part of interviews for some of the other things I am involved with, I do wonder how on earth it would sound if I said "Yes, but the clients, they commit a crime by seeing me".

Yes, indeed, it would sound nonsensical, and it would blow the whole legislation out of the water.

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On ‎2015‎-‎11‎-‎26‎ ‎10‎:‎02‎:‎57, Strawberry said:

Yes I'd read that in Sweden it's a criminal offence to let a property to a prostitute, and that the police may have a word with the landlord if they are aware this is taking place. Must make it difficult to rent a separate place to work from.

not only that

One of Sweden’s largest hotel chains, Scandic, has announced additional training for staff

as part of a government initiative to counter prostitution in the hospitality industry.

staff are to be given special “prostitution lessons”, including watching an educational video designed

to help them better identify clues that suggest plans to buy or sell sex in Swedish hotels.

Inger Mattsson, Scandic Sustainable Business Manager, told The Local:

“The first step is to see all guests. Then, when you hear something behind the walls that you should not be hearing, you call the police.

http://www.thelocal.se/20150203/hotel-chain-holds-prostitution-lessons

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So it's basically encouraging hotel staff to be pervs and listen carefully for their guests having sex?

And even if they do hear sex how on earth are they going to know if money was paid for it?

And will this increase stigma against women who are foreigners, or guests who are disabled? Anyone else remember the article about foreign women not being allowed into a pub in Sweden because "they might be prostitututes"?

 

Quote

It is not illegal to sell sexual services in Sweden,

It is if they work together, why do news articles always leave that fact out?

 

Quote

The law helped halve the number of streetwalkers in Sweden's cities [from 1999] to 2010,

Of course it was nothing to do with the fact 1999 most people didn't have the internet and by 2010 most people do.

Edited by YourSlave

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Laura Lee's case to get the insane Northern ireland sex purchase law removed is set for an initial hearing in the Belfast High Court on Feb 17! No better woman!

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