Coventrypunter

Etymology of Punting

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On the 'what is an escort' thread there has been some discussion on terms.

does anyone know when terms were first used?  And why?

Punting

Hooker

Working Girl

Escort

 

or any others you know of.

and how old are OWO, BB, RO etc.

 

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3 hours ago, Coventrypunter said:

On the 'what is an escort' thread there has been some discussion on terms.

does anyone know when terms were first used?  And why?

Punting

Hooker

Working Girl

Escort

 

or any others you know of.

and how old are OWO, BB, RO etc.

 

 

Punting - Lazy summer afternoon in  in the late 90's on a boat in Stratford Upon Avon

Hooker -  TJ Hooker, some rubbish tv programme my family used to watch in the 80s ( I think)

Working Girl - Fabulous film of the 80s but I didn't see until very recently..

Escort -  Ford,   had one many moons ago.

 

Not quite what you asked ( well actutally, it was nothing that you asked )  but thought I'd add it anyway.

 

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According to the OED the earliest recorded uses of these words in an escorting context are as follows:-

Punter: 1970   Sunday Times 15 Mar. 60/5,   I [sc. a prostitute] always make the punter wear a rubber.

Hooker: 1845   in N.E. Eliason Tarheel Talk (1956) 277   If he comes by way of Norfolk he will find any number of pretty Hookers in the Brick row not far from French's hotel.

Working Girl: 1928   M. Bodenheim Georgie May iii. 236   H'm-m, scan'lously dressed... Might be a working-girl.

Escort: 1941   Los Angeles Times 27 May ii. 20/6   Another member of the [vice] squad, also had an escort girl sent to the hotel... She..took off all her clothes and got into bed.

Use of "hooker" is flagged as being "chiefly US", while the term "working girl" is flagged as originating in the US.

 

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5 minutes ago, Carnival said:

According to the OED the earliest recorded uses of these words in an escorting context are as follows:-

Punter: 1970   Sunday Times 15 Mar. 60/5,   I [sc. a prostitute] always make the punter wear a rubber.

Hooker: 1845   in N.E. Eliason Tarheel Talk (1956) 277   If he comes by way of Norfolk he will find any number of pretty Hookers in the Brick row not far from French's hotel.

Working Girl: 1928   M. Bodenheim Georgie May iii. 236   H'm-m, scan'lously dressed... Might be a working-girl.

Escort: 1941   Los Angeles Times 27 May ii. 20/6   Another member of the [vice] squad, also had an escort girl sent to the hotel... She..took off all her clothes and got into bed.

Use of "hooker" is flagged as being "chiefly US", while the term "working girl" is flagged as originating in the US.

 

all quite recent then. hmmm

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Does anyone else remember Balderdash and Piffle, the BBC2 series from a while back when Victoria Coren (as she was then) asked viewers to suggest earlier uses of certain words and phrases than were currently documented by the OED. The only examples I can remember now were "nit nurse" and (rather controversially "c**t".

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13 minutes ago, Carnival said:

Does anyone else remember Balderdash and Piffle, the BBC2 series from a while back when Victoria Coren (as she was then) asked viewers to suggest earlier uses of certain words and phrases than were currently documented by the OED. The only examples I can remember now were "nit nurse" and (rather controversially "c**t".

cunt is very very old.  probably came over from Germany with the angles and the saxons.

but the current german words are nothing like.

but there was high german and low german.

possible also from Norse.  Lets blame the vikings.  Chloe?

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32 minutes ago, Carnival said:

According to the OED the earliest recorded uses of these words in an escorting context are as follows:-

Punter: 1970   Sunday Times 15 Mar. 60/5,   I [sc. a prostitute] always make the punter wear a rubber.

Hooker: 1845   in N.E. Eliason Tarheel Talk (1956) 277   If he comes by way of Norfolk he will find any number of pretty Hookers in the Brick row not far from French's hotel.

Working Girl: 1928   M. Bodenheim Georgie May iii. 236   H'm-m, scan'lously dressed... Might be a working-girl.

Escort: 1941   Los Angeles Times 27 May ii. 20/6   Another member of the [vice] squad, also had an escort girl sent to the hotel... She..took off all her clothes and got into bed.

Use of "hooker" is flagged as being "chiefly US", while the term "working girl" is flagged as originating in the US.

 

The example for working girl is very interesting. I checked out Maxwell Bodenheim on Wiki: he seems to have led a pretty dissolute life and he and his wife (who worked occasionally as a prostitute) were murdered together in a flophouse. So he would have had his ear close to the ground for any jargon from that world. I'm not convinced it would have been generally recognized as having that meaning then. It's a bit like the word 'gay', which seems to have had its sexual sense for a very long time indeed, but only among the aficionados, as it were. It didn't go mainstream till the 1970s.

Your example for "escort" is significantly earlier than anything else we had picked up on this forum before (see the "What is an escort..." thread).

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22 minutes ago, Colonel Bonkers said:

The example for working girl is very interesting. I checked out Maxwell Bodenheim on Wiki: he seems to have led a pretty dissolute life and he and his wife (who worked occasionally as a prostitute) were murdered together in a flophouse. So he would have had his ear close to the ground for any jargon from that world. I'm not convinced it would have been generally recognized as having that meaning then. It's a bit like the word 'gay', which seems to have had its sexual sense for a very long time indeed, but only among the aficionados, as it were. It didn't go mainstream till the 1970s.

Your example for "escort" is significantly earlier than anything else we had picked up on this forum before (see the "What is an escort..." thread).

That seems entirely credible and would explain why the next citation by the OED for usage of the word is not until 22 years later in 1952. I suspect it went mainstream in the US well before it did in the UK. Of the six usage examples cited by the OED the first five are from North America. Only the last one is from the UK and that is from the Birmingham Evening Mail from December 2010.

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3 minutes ago, Carnival said:

That seems entirely credible and would explain why the next citation by the OED for usage of the word is not until 22 years later in 1952. I suspect it went mainstream in the US well before it did in the UK. Of the six usage examples cited by the OED the first five are from North America. Only the last one is from the UK and that is from the Birmingham Evening Mail from December 2010.

Of course terms are in use verbally but there may be no written record.  WG was certainly in use in the UK before 2010

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In which case we're still left with the mystery of what the producers of that film Emily liked so much thought they were doing giving it what must by then have been a potentially very misleading title.

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Punting: unsure why it means: visiting a sexworker, or let him/her visit you. But it had a different meaning. Originally, it meant:

- kicking a ball after a drop, but before it hits the ground;

- using a pole to move a flat-bottomed boat forward. It makes me think of the Dutch word: punteren. A "punter" is such a boat.

Hooker: This is American (not British) English. It consists of: hook + -er. I don't know how "hook" can relate to sexwork.

Working Girl: Derived from "work" (a Germanic word). "Girl" is usually a female child or teenager, not an adult woman. With the meaning of "woman" (female adult of at least 18 years old) it is a bit rude or mocking. In the past "girl" can also refer to a male child or teenager (boy), not necessarily a female.

Escort: It used to mean a person or a group of person that accompanies the person that hired an escort. It is not necessarily an outcall sexworker.

 

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14 hours ago, hans66 said:

Puna ni sg: unsure why it means: visiting a sexworker, or let him/her visit you. But it had a different meaning. Originally, it meant:

- kicking a ball after a drop, but before it hits the ground;

- using a pole to move a flat-bottomed boat forward. It makes me think of the Dutch word: punteren. A "punter" is such a boat.

Hooker: This is American (not British) English. It consists of: hook + -er. I don't know how "hook" can relate to sexwork.

Working Girl: Derived from "work" (a Germanic word). "Girl" is usually a female child or teenager, not an adult woman. With the meaning of "woman" (female adult of at least 18 years old) it is a bit rude or mocking. In the past "girl" can also refer to a male child or teenager (boy), not necessarily a female.

Escort: It used to mean a person or a group of person that accompanies the person that hired an escort. It is not necessarily an outcall sexworker.

 

Punting was a term for betting. The term mug punter meant someone who gambled without studying form.

It also came to mean customer IN a shop.

I assume the prostitution meaning Is because there Is a risk as to the qualityof a meet. I.e a gamble.

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The word "punter" seemed to be used in slightly different way in the following BBC Radio 4 series from 1988:-

Punters

The Programme with Listener Power
In a series of ten programmes, you, the punters, report on your own stories with the help and support of Susan Marling and Nigel Farrell.
You ask the questions and investigate an intriguing range of life's injustices, problems and quirks. Join the Punters chase for answers and share the informative, entertaining and often unexpected results.

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/48210077c58c44f1a584ec65cd7e0dea

 

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On 06/12/2015, 18:24:29, Coventrypunter said:

cunt is very very old.  probably came over from Germany with the angles and the saxons.

but the current german words are nothing like.

but there was high german and low german.

possible also from Norse.  Lets blame the vikings.  Chloe?

No, cunt is derivative from the Latin (cf cunnilingus) and the more latinate languages have similar words, con, conyo, conho, 

Hooker is a fishing reference for sure

Punter is a gambling reference

Years ago I remember coming across an old mechanical pulp paperback, the sort that has pages that yellow very quickly and go brittle, don't recall the circumstances but Ive noticed the memory does funny things as you get older. It had the title, memoirs of a prostitute or something similar, based on the life of a woman before the street offences act, when the london scene looked very different to today. I cannot remember too many details but I am pretty sure the normal vernacular for a working girl then was tart. I think this is probably a french derived metaphor, as in french lessons, french letter, french tart. This is because french (fruit) tarts are open. This is just my idea.

The other thing I remember from reading the book, which I think may have been a waiting room somewhere, was how much stuff was oganised or controlled by the police. I should stress that this book may have been a work of fiction for all I know, lol

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2 hours ago, one eyed panda said:

No, cunt is derivative from the Latin (cf cunnilingus) and the more latinate languages have similar words, con, conyo, conho, 

Hooker is a fishing reference for sure

Punter is a gambling reference

Years ago I remember coming across an old mechanical pulp paperback, the sort that has pages that yellow very quickly and go brittle, don't recall the circumstances but Ive noticed the memory does funny things as you get older. It had the title, memoirs of a prostitute or something similar, based on the life of a woman before the street offences act, when the london scene looked very different to today. I cannot remember too many details but I am pretty sure the normal vernacular for a working girl then was tart. I think this is probably a french derived metaphor, as in french lessons, french letter, french tart. This is because french (fruit) tarts are open. This is just my idea.

The other thing I remember from reading the book, which I think may have been a waiting room somewhere, was how much stuff was oganised or controlled by the police. I should stress that this book may have been a work of fiction for all I know, lol

The etymology of 'cunt' is disputed, butthe weight of evidence seems to come down on Cov'sside. There are closer cognates to it in the Germanic languages than the Romance ones;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt#Etymology

 

 

 

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Whore is a word that etymologically relates to German Hure and Dutch hoer. I only don't understand where the initial w comes from, because it isn't pronounced nowadays. In Old English it wasn't written: hōre.

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many words - many contexts and meanings

I saw a lorry a while back and in big letters at side of truck

"BEST ERECTIONS IN THE UK"

what was in the truck? a group of hunky guys - no - scaffolding

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Punter as a word for someone who pays for sex never sits well with me

a horse gambler yes - or a generic term used by market traders and shop owners for customers yes

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