NIK

So how will our hypocritical legislators stop this?

22 posts in this topic

In view of the scaremongering again being generated about legislation below I give the following scenerio.

The woman I have seen most is indie and quite part time. As far as I know she has never worked for an agency and certainly never in a parlour or on the streets. She works discreetly of her own free will from her own flat.

I go to see her and pay her for sex. The only people who know what actually happens are me and her.

We are consenting adults partaking in a transaction.

But for all anyone knows I could simply be a friend or someone having sex for free.

So tell me how are the thought police going to monitor, prove and stop this?

i did discuss this with her some time back. And like anyone with a modicum of realistic common sense (which rules out most politicians!) she couldn't give a monkey's chuff about 'legislation.' :o

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So tell me how are the thought police going to monitor, prove and stop this?

i did discuss this with her some time back. And like anyone with a modicum of realistic common sense (which rules out most politicians!) she couldn't give a monkey's chuff about 'legislation.' :o

As I understand it there is nothing in the law that stops you f*ck*ng a WG and a politician f*ck*ng his mistess and secretary - or in fact a WG

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So tell me how are the thought police going to monitor, prove and stop this?

As I understand things the scenario you describe is not currently illegal and it still won't be be after the new law comes into play. Why should the police be interested ?

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As I understand things the scenario you describe is not currently illegal and it still won't be be after the new law comes into play. Why should the police be interested ?

But if the law that some people want came in... then even in the scenario Nick describes, he couldn't be sure that what he was complying. Nobody can ever be completely sure if a woman is "controlled".

For Nik to be technically "guilty"... all that would need to happen is that the woman passed some of the fee to some one else, and give evidence (on a plea bargain mayhap) that Nick had paid her. The fact that Nick had no reason to believe she was controlled would be no defence.

To me its all terribly unlikely... I'd just carry on as I do now... basically taking reasonable measures to see women who grace the profession of their own free will.

But the new law would make life a bit more unpleasant... there would be a faint nagging doubt that I was breaking the law unknowingly.

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But if the law that some people want came in... then even in the scenario Nick describes, he couldn't be sure that what he was complying. Nobody can ever be completely sure if a woman is "controlled".

Just so that there is no misunderstanding here, the word "controlled" does not appear in the new legislation, the "key" words are :-

"force", "exploitative conduct", "induce" "encourage", "threats", "coercion", "deception".

A small point I agree, and I have no doubt that it can be argued that a combination of the above is nothing more or less than being "controlled", however the devil is in the detail ............

The new legislation.

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Just so that there is no misunderstanding here, the word "controlled" does not appear in the new legislation, the "key" words are :-

"force", "exploitative conduct", "induce" "encourage", "threats", "coercion", "deception".

A small point I agree, and I have no doubt that it can be argued that a combination of the above is nothing more or less than being "controlled", however the devil is in the detail ............

The new legislation.

I fear that all of those could directly relate to some of the best Agencies I use. :)

It does seem to me that it will be the Agencies that will have the most to "worry" about.

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I fear that all of those could directly relate to some of the best Agencies I use. :)

It does seem to me that it will be the Agencies that will have the most to "worry" about.

From my understanding of the new law its only indies who would be safe from being prosecuted as we work solely for ourselves.

Agencies and massage parlours would be seen as controlling for gain :eek:

I get that if its a girl brought over here to work as a nanny or whatever then forced to work as a WG but surely its different if you CHOOSE to work for an agency or parlour :)

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From my understanding of the new law its only indies who would be safe from being prosecuted as we work solely for ourselves.

There is nothing in new legislation that relates to the prosecution of a prostitute whatsoever, it does not change the legal status of a prostitute or, by definition, prostitution one iota.

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In view of the scaremongering again being generated about legislation below I give the following scenerio.

The woman I have seen most is indie and quite part time. As far as I know she has never worked for an agency and certainly never in a parlour or on the streets. She works discreetly of her own free will from her own flat.

I go to see her and pay her for sex. The only people who know what actually happens are me and her.

We are consenting adults partaking in a transaction.

But for all anyone knows I could simply be a friend or someone having sex for free.

So tell me how are the thought police going to monitor, prove and stop this?

i did discuss this with her some time back. And like anyone with a modicum of realistic common sense (which rules out most politicians!) she couldn't give a monkey's chuff about 'legislation.' :)

It is obvious that from the outset Nanny Labour wanted to eliminate ORGANISED Prostitution in the UK, the orginal wording in the Bill "controlled" emphasised this, with the new wording especially "coerced" it gives the pigs open season on Punters the intention of the Executive in the first instance. The scenario you quote will not be targetted, it has never been illegal in this country to use a prostitute who works alone, but now still not illegal provided she is not forced or coerced, it is soliciting that is illegal. Brothels also are illegal and have been since the 1950's Act, it is this part of the paid for sex trade that will be targetted putting fear in the Punter, that if he visits a Brothel he may be arrested and summarily criminalised, defaming his character without redress and repair, whether guilty of the said offence or not, this legislation is draconian and flies in the face everything that is fair in the UK justice system, innocent until found guilty in a court of law.

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Brothels also are illegal and have been since the 1950's Act, it is this part of the paid for sex trade that will be targetted putting fear in the Punter, that if he visits a Brothel he may be arrested and summarily criminalised ....

It is not illegal to visit a brothel.

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There is nothing in new legislation that relates to the prosecution of a prostitute whatsoever, it does not change the legal status of a prostitute or, by definition, prostitution one iota.

Oh ok so I got that mixed up with whats really legal now :)

See I'm a bit blonde really :)

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It is not illegal to visit a brothel.

Correct, it is the running/owning a Brothel that is illegal. But it will be a risk for a Punter to visit a Brothel when the new legislation is in force.

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Our glorious govern is bringing in the nanny state.

I agree that people trafficking and unwilling participants should be protected, but really...

If it comes in every WG should go on to social and say I had a job which you made illegal. The state needs to support me now!

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Just so that there is no misunderstanding here, the word "controlled" does not appear in the new legislation, the "key" words are :-

"force", "exploitative conduct", "induce" "encourage", "threats", "coercion", "deception".

A small point I agree, and I have no doubt that it can be argued that a combination of the above is nothing more or less than being "controlled", however the devil is in the detail ............

The new legislation.

Could a parlor not get the girls so sign a declaration that they were there of

their own free will and accord and free to go at any time ?

If there is no "force", "exploitative conduct" etc etc then on what basis could a punter be prosecuted now that the word controlled doesn't appear. Previously, "controlled" could have meant anything as minor as organizing shifts for the girls.

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Could a parlor not get the girls so sign a declaration that they were there of

their own free will and accord and free to go at any time ?

Yes of course they could, however I do not see that as a deterrent to the police in the gathering of evidence and the seeking of proof to the contrary, do you?

If there is no "force", "exploitative conduct" etc etc then on what basis could a punter be prosecuted now that the word controlled doesn't appear. Previously, "controlled" could have meant anything as minor as organizing shifts for the girls.

That rather depends if the Magistrate in deepest, darkest Billericay considers the evidence supplied by the police is proof of "force", "exploitative conduct", "induce", "encourage", "threats", "coercion", "deception", as we post I have no idea what the Magistrate will do or what the CPS guidelines are.

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Our glorious govern is bringing in the nanny state.

I agree that people trafficking and unwilling participants should be protected, but really...

If it comes in every WG should go on to social and say I had a job which you made illegal. The state needs to support me now!

I think what really pisses them off is they can't tax it.

They tax every fucking thing else to help pay for their outrageous expenses.

I see fuel has gone up again. And going up yet again in the budget (doesn't that make a change? How original!)

It's now almost as expensive as it's ever been and no one seems to be making a murmer about it.

Of course if you get first class travel allowances and ministerial limousines you couldn't give a flying fuck about the cost of fuel. :)

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I think what really pisses them off is they can't tax it.

They tax every fucking thing else to help pay for their outrageous expenses.

I see fuel has gone up again. And going up yet again in the budget (doesn't that make a change? How original!)

It's now almost as expensive as it's ever been and no one seems to be making a murmur about it.

Of course if you get first class travel allowances and ministerial limousines you couldn't give a flying fuck about the cost of fuel. :)

I made a murmur about it the other day when I came to fill up. But that is not enough on its own, if this was France it would be a different story. Noticed just what you said - slowly creeping back up to its high and nobody even notices. How gullible are we in this wonderful country of ours.

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When will this law actually be likely to come in? Id liek to make a note in my diary so I know when I suddenly become a criminal, possibly

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Could a parlor not get the girls so sign a declaration that they were there of

their own free will and accord and free to go at any time ?

Yeah, they could 'get' them to sign it by threatening to smash their faces if they don't................:)

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Our glorious govern is bringing in the nanny state.

I agree that people trafficking and unwilling participants should be protected, but really...

If it comes in every WG should go on to social and say I had a job which you made illegal. The state needs to support me now!

As SaSfan pointed out above, it's not the job that is being made illegal by the new law. This doesn't affect the status of WGs one iota. What is being made illegal is the purchase of sex from a WG who is "forced"/"coerced" etc into the job. Effectively, it will now be the punter who is a potential criminal.

A moot point to the penniless WGs if all the punters disappear. Somehow I doubt that will happen though :).

I do however expect a few high profile parlour raids in the aftermath of the new law though (if Labour last that long). The government will want a few high profile prosecutions to show what they are doing to "clean the country up". Whether or not they will find any prosecutable cases is debatable (I don't doubt that some "forced" women exist by the way, it is the proof of it in court that might be difficult - or not, depending on how co-operative the forced lady is).

Anyone know the timing of the introduction of this new law ? Is the process now inexorably ongoing, or can a general election yet derail it ?

I still think that NIKs scenario that started this thread off will be very unlikely to attract any attention from old bill, due to the high manpower required to conduct the operation. Also, I am guessing that the number of "forced" girls in the indie population is tiny.

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When will this law actually be likely to come in? Id liek to make a note in my diary so I know when I suddenly become a criminal, possibly

Yeah I'd like to know too -

so I can celebrate it with a good punt :)

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Yeah I'd like to know too -

so I can celebrate it with a good punt :)

I guess that's one way to break your current run of celibacy :)!

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